DNC 2008 Thread

[hifigator]

Like I said before, I think Romney would be the best choice as far as actually being VP, if it ever got that far. The main drawback I was thinking about was his Mormanism. Many of the extreme right almost view Mormanism as more of a cult and less of a religion. Then to the moderates and modest libs, they are almost scared of Mormanism to a degree, and view it as too radical. I think the combination of those two make Romney a dangerous pick. On the positive side, it might be part of a larger plan to bring religion to the forefront during the next 3 months. If so, then the approach could be "sure, some of you won't agree with particular doctrine and that's ok, but on the larger scale, we're all about family values, working hard, personal responsibility, being considerate of others etc..." then on the heels of that, the natural thing to do is once again point out that Obama has for 20 years been a member of a church that preaches and promotes racism, anti-semitic views, anti-white views and yes, even anti-American Marxist views. In that light, I don't think being a Morman is all that bad.

I would still much prefer to have Hutchinson though.

Also, as for the speaking engagements, at least one article said that Pawlenty had cancelled his next few.

[Bando]

Aug 28, 2008 16:44:18 GMT -5 Boz said:

I like Kay-Bay, but she is God-awful on television.

It sucks that this matters, but it does.

It won't be her. (yay, now you get to watch me be wrong again!)

Regarding Romney:
1. I don't think his wealth will be a problem. I don't think people have a problem with wealthy candidates. They have a problem with elitist candidates, and there's a difference. I disagree with Bando that the "7 houses" thing is really getting any solid traction anywhere except on the left. But I could be wrong.

2. I think the "Evangelicals hate him because he's Mormon" argument is vastly overblown. There are a small, vocal minority sounding this call, but nothing substantive - that I have seen anyway - to indicate that there is any widespread objection to him from Christian conservatives.

3. Very good executive experience. Can (and I think would) bring in Michigan. Shores up McCain on the economy. Excellent on television and pretty good in debates.

Those are the reasons why McCain can pick Romney. But there is a big reason why he possibly can't:

Romney, for whatever reason, had huge negatives in the primaries, like Hillary Clinton. People aren't even really sure why because they were high long before people really even got to know him. Maybe I'm wrong and it WAS his Mormonism, or maybe it was his "conversion" on abortion and gay marriage, or maybe it was just that George Hamilton look he's got going.

OK, and possibly a second reason that McCain doesn't really like him that much.

I don't think those are deal breakers for McCain, but I think it makes Romney problematic. I still think he'd be a good pick. As I said before: not great, but good. There's not a lot of "great" going around this year - on either side - for the veep choice.

Like I said before, though, selecting Romney means endless ads quoting his statements from the primaries. If you remember, he was pretty harsh on McCain.

And I really think you're underestimating evangelical discontent. Huckabee won all those states because neither McCain nor Romney were palatable to them. To select a non-evangelical right after McCain made peace with them is political suicide.

I have to disagree you on Romney's impact on Michigan, as well. He has no real organization or movement there, and I don't think family ties are going to make up for what is sure to be a record African-American turnout.

Pawlenty doesn't really bring anything to the table, but he does no harm. McCain should pick him rather than gamble on those with uncertain benefits and definite risks.

[Bando]

then on the heels of that, the natural thing to do is once again point out that Obama has for 20 years been a member of a church that preaches and promotes racism, anti-semitic views, anti-white views and yes, even anti-American Marxist views. In that light, I don't think being a Morman is all that bad.

Um, Trinity Church and the Nation of Islam are not the same things. You know this, right?

[Boz]

Holy Crap! Michael McDonald is still alive?

Bando, as I said, you could be right on the Mormonism thing, I'm just not seeing a lot of evidence for it. I've read a number of Christian commentators who say it's just not there. But maybe it's one of those things that is not expressed openly, ergo hard to prove, kind of like the Bradley effect we've heard about ad nauseum.

I guess we'll see about Michigan (assuming McCain picks him, of course). I still think Romney can deliver there and also help in Colorado & Nevada. Maybe they're not as big a deal, but I think every close state will be a big deal this time. I am less confident that Pawlenty can deliver Minnesota (& Wisconsin).

[HealyHoya]

Ok. Here's what I have as of right now:

McCain's VP will leak tonight sometime after Obama's speech but early enough to make the East Coast deadlines for papers. Carl Cameron of Fox will get it first so if you want to see it break, throw Fox on the tube after Obama concludes.

[Bando]

Aug 28, 2008 20:19:23 GMT -5 Boz said:

Holy Crap! Michael McDonald is still alive?

Bando, as I said, you could be right on the Mormonism thing, I'm just not seeing a lot of evidence for it. I've read a number of Christian commentators who say it's just not there. But maybe it's one of those things that is not expressed openly, ergo hard to prove, kind of like the Bradley effect we've heard about ad nauseum.

I guess we'll see about Michigan (assuming McCain picks him, of course). I still think Romney can deliver there and also help in Colorado & Nevada. Maybe they're not as big a deal, but I think every close state will be a big deal this time. I am less confident that Pawlenty can deliver Minnesota (& Wisconsin).

Michael McDonald is awesome! For those who have not checked out the internet series "Yacht Rock", this is the time.

As for Romney and the evangelicals, they didn't seem to like him that much in the primary. Dobson was particularly lukewarm. Sure, that all might change in the face of the Democrats, but it still represents a risk.

I also think Pawlenty can't deliver Minnesota. But he doesn't hurt anything.

McCain campaign just announced that the VP won't be announced tonight. That doesn't mean it won't leak, though.

[The Stig]

A very good speech from Obama. Not quite the epic speech it was hyped as, but a very good one nonetheless.

I don't think it quite lived up to his 2004 DNC speech, and any comparisons to MLK's "I have a dream" speech are wide of the mark. But those were different speeches for different times. Rhetoric is always more exciting than substance, and those great speeches were all about the rhetoric. Tonight Obama gave us a hefty dose of substance, which put a bit of a damper on the excitement, but not much. I thought he did a good job of laying out what an Obama presidency will look like.

[Coast2CoastHoya]

As an American, as a member of my generation, as a person from the West Coast, as a person educated in the Jesuit tradition, as a voter, as someone nearly desperate for a better example than I've been shown for the vast majority of my adult life, Barack Obama's speech tonight went beyond inspiration. It told a story of the past, of the present, of the future. It addressed every conceivable criticism and went further: it laid out a 29-point plan for betterment. For betterment. It honored the other candidate. It honored its own opponents. It was a good beginning to what promises to be a historic campaign.

Pat Buchanan: "This wasn't a liberal speech. This was a genuinely centrist speech."

For you older folks, maybe there was a presidential campaign in 1980 or 1976 or 1960 or 1992 that made you feel the way I feel at this moment. But for me---and hopefully members of my generation and other generations not yet jaded by the politics-that-be or the degradation of the promise of America or the diambiguation of American wealth---tonight's delivery of words and promises by the first American (indeed, first modern Western) candidate of his kind helped me realize why Americans of all stripes have called our country the greatest.

[Jack]

MSNBC just had to cut Pat Buchanan's gushing off- he called it the best and most important convention speech he has ever seen. I am not sure I agree, but wow.

[Bando]

I'm obviously ridiculously biased, but I thought it was the exact speech needed at that moment. Sure it doesn't compare to some of his (and MLK's) loftier rhetoric, but this speech did exactly what the campaign needed. He laid out a coherent vision for the future and a few specific policy points (although if you cared about policy already, you knew all that). He managed to play offense and defense at the same time by taking present McCain attack lines and using them against him.

Most importantly (and this is why I've liked Obama in the first place) he challenged Republican foreign policy as foolish, rather than simply trying to out-hawk them, as was Kerry's failing 4 years ago.

Takeaway lines: "eight is enough", "they need to own their failure"

[Elvado]

Speech was great. If he can do 1/8 of what he promises I'll work for his reelection. That said, Chris Matthews has to go. His post-speech Edited was sickening.

[DFW HOYA]

Aug 29, 2008 4:37:57 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Speech was great. If he can do 1/8 of what he promises I'll work for his reelection. That said, Chris Matthews has to go. His post-speech NA was sickening.

The Chris Matthews story is interesting. As noted on a NY Times feature a while back, Matthews is frenetic, somewhat thin-skinned, and wears his heart on his sleeve. He also is said not to get along with everyone on the MSNBC set (Brokaw, Olbermann) and can get sidetracked very easily. Add to that his emerging public interest in running for Arlen Specter's seat in 2010, and there's this awkward balance of pundit, wonk, and candidate rolled into one.

There's also the feud with News Corp. Keith Olbermann has been tweaking the noses of Fox for years through his skewering of Bill O'Reilly's bluster, now answered by O'Reilly with regular diatribes on General Electric and NBC, and now the NY Post (owned by News Corp.) is running blurbs in Page Six on Olbermann's supposedly imperious nature.

When Olbermann complained the MSNBC broadcast booth was too close to crowds this week (and it was, given that guests were frequently shouted down by nearby protesters and one women actually reached over and shook Matthews' hair), Friday's Page Six called him "increasingly paranoid" and working to "muzzle" guests.

By contrast, Pat Buchanan seems to have caught a second wind on these MSNBC broadcasts and seems to be enjoying the convention theater tremendously.

[thornski]

Pawlenty no longer a VP possibility according to GOP sources...

[jerseyhoya34]

If it is Palin or Lieberman, the attack ads will write themselves.

[TBird41]

Aug 29, 2008 7:29:20 GMT -5 @jerseyhoya34 said:

If it is Palin or Lieberman, the attack ads will write themselves.

Ditto for Romney

[TBird41]

Supposedly it's Palin.

www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0808/Palin.html#comments

Drudge's front page seems to think so too.

Two years ago, Palin was mayor of "Nowhere" (yup--that's right. One of the so called "Bridges to Nowhere" connected Anchorage to Wasilla). Now she's qualified to run the country? Oh, and the state legislature felt that there was enough substance to launch a special investigation to look into whether she tried to use her office to get her ex-brother in law fired from the state troopers.

GREAT PICK McCain

[Coast2CoastHoya]

Aug 29, 2008 4:37:57 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Speech was great. If he can do 1/8 of what he promises I'll work for his reelection. That said, Chris Matthews has to go. His post-speech NA was sickening.

Yeah, the post-speech "analysis" was kinda wildly pro-Obama. Then again, those guys & gals seemed genuinely inspired. Still though.... But then again, the folks over at FoxNews seemed genuinely impressed too.

So is it Palin?? Let's get this party started.

[strummer8526]

If there has ever been a Vice President that we should think may have a chance of assuming the Presidency, it's McCain's. That's not to mock his age or health, but it's just reality that at his age, he's most likely to kick the bucket while in office. And then we're left with someone who is FAR FAR less "ready to lead" than Obama?

[Coast2CoastHoya]

ABC & MSNBC reporting that Palin is still in Alaska. Mornin' Joe is thinking it Lieberman. Joe is also tossing Powell & Rice's names out there. Mitchell et al. saying no way to Powell or Rice.

[sleepyjackson21]

Palin would actually be a great choice for McCain. She's young, she has the highest approval rating for any governor, she's prolife and very family oriented (to appease the right wing republicans), she's a woman, she much more blue collar than Biden and she has lots of experience with oil and gas issues.