What "should" be illegal?

[hifigator]

We have discussed a few of these, but without getting into lengthy discussions again, I'm just curious where everyone stands on some of these controversial issues:

Before I start, I do think that the decisions should be left up to the state at the very least, if not the municipalities even. In other words, if the majority want the things on the list, then they should have that option. Similarly, if they don't then that should probably "trump" the minority's rights to these things.


1. medicinal marijuana use
2. recreational marijuana use
3. elicit drugs (cocaine, heroin, opium etc...)
4. prostitution
5. casino gambling
6. sports wagering
7. open containers of alcohol by persons of age, not in a vehicle
8. dark window tint


Here's my take:
1. Absolutely, without a doubt
2. Yes
3. no
4. yes, but in controlled areas. There should be a red light district.
5. Yes, you shouldn't have to travel to other states to gamble
6. Yes, that would be a tremendous tax revenue generator
7. yes, it works fine in Europe. They got that one right at least.
8. Yes, until someone can prove a legitimate danger to society -- accidents etc...

[EasyEd]

Shouldn't the title be what should be legal, not illegal?

[williambraskyiii]

dude can you please refrain from polluting the board with your stoner antics.

[hifigator]

ed, you are correct but I seriously doubt anyone will be confused. But yes, it is true that the way I worded it, the title should be what "should" be legal.

[EasyEd]

Aug 11, 2008 16:21:06 GMT -5 hifigator said:

ed, you are correct but I seriously doubt anyone will be confused. But yes, it is true that the way I worded it, the title should be what "should" be legal.

So, you recognize we should have to think the opposite of what you say?

[HoyaSinceBirth]

1. medicinal marijuana use( legal)
2. recreational marijuana use( legal)
3. elicit drugs (cocaine, heroin, opium etc...) ( illegal)
4. prostitution ( possibly)
5. casino gambling ( legal)
6. sports wagering ( legal)
7. open containers of alcohol by persons of age, not in a vehicle ( legal)
8. dark window tint ( didn't realize this was in question)

[HealyHoya]

8. on behalf of over-worked, under-paid and under-appreciated police officers around the country who will tell you that approaching a car from behind that they have just pulled over for some relatively nonviolent, though illegal, activity is often the scariest and most dangerous thing they do, dark window tint is and should remain illegal.

[strummer8526]

1. medicinal marijuana use -- Yes, if regulated in all the ways that other medications are regulated
2. recreational marijuana use -- No
3. elicit drugs (cocaine, heroin, opium etc...) -- Absolutely not
4. prostitution -- Agree w/ you Hifi; yes, in controlled areas
5. casino gambling -- Yes
6. sports wagering -- Yes
7. open containers of alcohol by persons of age, not in a vehicle -- Yes, but again w/ some reasonable boundaries
8. dark window tint -- Agree 100% w/ HealyHoya; No

[HoyaSinceBirth]

ok that makes sense. i'm with you guys then, I'd never really thought about it.

[thebin]

They should all be legal, except tinted windows which pose very real dangers to cops as well as the public at large when encountering highly dangerous and armed criminals whose actions they cannot see until it's too late. And I say that as someone who has to control my general displeasure with cops fairly often. Nothing scares me or angers me more than how often I see cops throwing their autority around too cavalierly. But cars are very dangerous things, you don't have the same type of natural rights in them as in other aspects of life in my opinion. Tinted windows essentially exist for getting up to no good and on the road that engangers us all.

The others are no brainers- should be legal, except maybe legal unprescribed opiates. That get's tricky. You can't sorta dable rationally in heroin like you might be able to in pot or even coke. It might be too destructive too often for even this libertarian to allow. Prostitution is the biggest no brainer of them all. It should no more be illegal than getting a haircut is.

[EasyEd]

Aug 11, 2008 19:15:08 GMT -5 HealyHoya said:

8. on behalf of over-worked, under-paid and under-appreciated police officers around the country who will tell you that approaching a car from behind that they have just pulled over for some relatively nonviolent, though illegal, activity is often the scariest and most dangerous thing they do, dark window tint is and should remain illegal.

Agree 100%. I have a family member who is a police officer and I can confirm it's downright scary and dangerous.

Secondly, when driving it is often possible to avoid an accident by looking at the driver of another vehicle to see where he/she is looking. Tinted windows prevent this and I believe accidents occur because of it.

[JohnJacquesLayup]

1. Legal
2. Legal - with limits on quantities. 45 lbs isn't recreational use, HiFi.
3. Illegal
4. Illegal
5. Legal
6. Legal
7. Legal - but current laws involving cars remain in effect.
8. Dark window tint (20% and below, especially the 5% Limo tint) should be/remain illegal. I currently like the VA/MD standard for window tint. VA is 50% front and 35% rear, and MD is 35% all around. In both states, tinting the windshield below about 4" is illegal. Basically, light tinting provides a little bit of relief from the sun, but doesn't pose any safety risks.

[vcjack]

9. Smoking in bars/on the sidewalk/in your home = ILLEGAL, we must drive the heathen smokers into extinction before they corrupt our children or give us all lung cancer.

[hifigator]

Thanks for the input ... well, except for this part:

So, you recognize we should have to think the opposite of what you say?


In any case, you definitely have me rethinking the tint issue. I hadn't really considered the tint issue from the danger to the cops when pulling someone over for a "real" reason. I was thinking of it more from the angle of being used as an excuse to pull over someone who otherwise is doing no wrong ... at least as far as anyone else knows. I will have to give this a good bit more thought.

Still, "limo" tint is legal for limos, as well as certain larger vehicles -- buses and the sort. So if safety to an officer is really the issue, then why do these vehicles get a free pass? In all seriousness, there could be an entire heavily armed army hiding in a bus. How many militants could fit into a Honda civic with the same tint?

Off the top of my head, maybe there should be some law requiring the driver's window to be rolled down when pulled over. Of course then there are other questions: suppose the window is broken or the handle is broken or it is raining/snowing/hailing etc...

Still, if the issue is safety for police officers then I think you would have to get rid of the exemption for certain vehicles. Let's face it: we all know that limos are exempt because there is presumably a professional driving the vehicle and the "customers" are viewed more as being in their hotel room than in a car. The same is true of buses.

But all that aside, I have a problem with being told that you must leave your vehicle in plain view for anyone who wanders by to be able to look into it. I guess someone could devise a dual pane window of some sort so that the tinted windows are used when parked and the plain windows are used when moving.


All assorted theories aside:

1. Dark tinted windows are used as a reason to pull people over for no reason, other than having the windows in the first place. I don't think that is right.

2. The danger is always explained as coming from the driver inside the car with tinted windows not being able to see.

3. While dark tinting might give less visiblilty in some cases, and be therefore "more dangerous" it also has the opposite effect in some cases. When turning onto a road in bright sunlight for example, the tinting could easily give better visibility.

4. Tinted windows keep light out and therefore much of the heat from the sun. That can help protect the car's upholstery from deterioration as well as make it much more comfortable for the owner when he returns.

5. Tinted windows make it much more difficult for a would be thief to see inside a car and to therefore know what he might wish to steal.

I guess the bottom line is that there are clearly legitimate reasons to have dark tinted windows. There are also some valid arguments for why they could be harmful. So I guess the question is how you balance those factors.

Ideas?

[hifigator]

vc, I probably should have put that on the list as well. I think we might be unanimous in agreement on that one and I don't smoke tobacco. I think Florida's law is terrible and it isn't even as intrusive as some other states. Florida's law prohibits smoking in restaurants. The difference between a "bar" and a "restaurant" is determined by the ratio of food to non-food sales. Basically, if more than 10% of your revenue comes from food, then you are a "restaurant" and smoking is not allowed. You can't even have designated smoking sections.

Is there anyone here who thinks that the villainization of cig smokers is a proper thing?

[JohnJacquesLayup]

Moderate levels of legal tinting.

Edit: Which already exists in many states.

[Boz]

Aug 12, 2008 10:41:23 GMT -5 vcjack said:

9. Smoking in bars/on the sidewalk/in your home = ILLEGAL, we must drive the heathen smokers into extinction before they corrupt our children or give us all lung cancer.

[Thinking about it....]

No, I will not rise to nibble at this libero-fascist bait.

[/Swimming along my merry way]

[FormerHoya]

Wouldn't the drugs mentioned in #3 be considered illicit? If you want to elicit these illicit drugs, then that's a different problem.

Your all morans if you dont get the affect elicit drugs have on yutes.

[kchoya]

1. medicinal marijuana use - legal (but more control over distribution)
2. recreational marijuana use - illegal
3. elicit drugs (cocaine, heroin, opium etc...) - I have no idea what elicit drugs are. But I do think illicit drugs should be illegal.
4. prostitution - illegal
5. casino gambling - legal
6. sports wagering - legal
7. open containers of alcohol by persons of age, not in a vehicle - legal and should be legal in vehicles too for non-drivers
8. dark window tint - illegal. If you're worried about it being used a pre-text, pass a law saying it's a secondary violation and you can't effect a stop simply based on suspicion of illegal tinting.

[strummer8526]

Aug 12, 2008 11:33:05 GMT -5 kchoya said:

2. recreational marijuana use - illegal

7. open containers of alcohol by persons of age, not in a vehicle - legal and should be legal in vehicles too for non-drivers

Happy to see someone else on the no recreational pot team.

Personally, I would love to drink in the car while someone else is driving, but I could see that leading to a TON of accidents. I just imagine my drunk-ass friends all over the car getting boozy. I don't know about that one. Do other countries allow non-drivers to drink in cars?