What "should" be illegal?

[HoyaSinceBirth]

I agree with the exorcist my eating a hamburger doesn't hurt anyone else.

In addition smoking is harmful to you no matter who you are where as someone with a fast metabolism will not be affected at all by a hamburger obviously other types of people will be affected by that hamburger.

[Boz]

I think you are all missing the point. Smoking OUTSIDE poses absolutely no ill effects to anyone but the smoker.

Show me some evidence for the secondary smoke phenomenon when all of the test subjects are outdoors and I'll believe you. Until then, this is stupid and ridiculous at the same time.

Instead of the burger analogy, you should ban all campfires if you are going to do this. Oh, and ban grilling too.

And band the internal combustion engine (I know, I know, you're trying).

It's nonsense.

[AustinHoya03]

Sept 16, 2008 12:20:21 GMT -5 Boz said:

Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but.....

.....The March of Fascism Continues.

This ban is far less defensible than most statewide and citywide bans. First, PSU enacted this ban by edict instead of polling the community. In a university atmosphere, a major opportunity for educational debate was missed -- isn't that nearly indefensible if you're a college administrator? (Hmmm...why did Juan Gonzalez just pop into my head?)

Second, the ban smacks of pop moralism. You could argue that city/statewide bans on smoking in bars do as well, but banning ALL SMOKING ANYWHERE ANYTIME is not based on concern and well-being for others forced to inhale second hand smoke, but based instead on a concern that people are smoking, period. Although I guess it could have something to do with the state university system paying students' health care costs? Not sure what the system is in State College.

Third, colleges are totally sucking the life out of meaningful student experiences. Let's be honest: smoking, drinking, and getting laid have been part of the college experience for generations (Notre Dame and Liberty College excepted). I smoked my share of Marlboro Lights in college (I don't smoke anymore), and don't regret it one bit. Sure there are some excesses of vice from my college experience I wish I could take back, but for many Americans, the college experience is an important part of growing up and and an important time of self-exploration. Stifling debate or restricting actions on college campuses, and turning said campuses into aseptic environments misses the point of college entirely for me.

I will note, again, that I don't think there's really any good legal reason PSU can't do this. Unfortunately for Boz, the only real check on non-smoking edicts is good old fashioned restraint. Wish the Nittany Lions had shown more of it here.

[hifigator]

Sept 16, 2008 21:09:33 GMT -5 AustinHoya03 said:

Sept 16, 2008 12:20:21 GMT -5 Boz said:

Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but.....

.....The March of Fascism Continues.

This ban is far less defensible than most statewide and citywide bans. First, PSU enacted this ban by edict instead of polling the community. In a university atmosphere, a major opportunity for educational debate was missed -- isn't that nearly indefensible if you're a college administrator? (Hmmm...why did Juan Gonzalez just pop into my head?)

Second, the ban smacks of pop moralism. You could argue that city/statewide bans on smoking in bars do as well, but banning ALL SMOKING ANYWHERE ANYTIME is not based on concern and well-being for others forced to inhale second hand smoke, but based instead on a concern that people are smoking, period. Although I guess it could have something to do with the state university system paying students' health care costs? Not sure what the system is in State College.

Third, colleges are totally sucking the life out of meaningful student experiences. Let's be honest: smoking, drinking, and getting laid have been part of the college experience for generations (Notre Dame and Liberty College excepted). I smoked my share of Marlboro Lights in college (I don't smoke anymore), and don't regret it one bit. Sure there are some excesses of vice from my college experience I wish I could take back, but for many Americans, the college experience is an important part of growing up and and an important time of self-exploration. Stifling debate or restricting actions on college campuses, and turning said campuses into aseptic environments misses the point of college entirely for me.

I will note, again, that I don't think there's really any good legal reason PSU can't do this. Unfortunately for Boz, the only real check on non-smoking edicts is good old fashioned restraint. Wish the Nittany Lions had shown more of it here.

I knew we could find some common ground outside of a hatred for Syracuse if we looked hard enough. I agree with you.

To take it one step farther -- and to a point where our allegiance will likely end -- would it matter, if the edict, as you call it, came from a majority vote rather than a decision from a "select" few?

I think we will both waver on such a question, ironically, most likely on opposite sides, depending on perspective.

I think that the magnitude of the overall college experience, especially as it relates to academe as a whole, is vastly overrated -- aside from the "getting laid" and "drinking beer" part of course.

That being said, I think that the exact same words Austin used to describe such "coming of age," would be an even more perfect fit for the "coming of age" experience during the sexual revolution of the 60's generation. I'm not saying anything good or bad about the description or the experience, but I think it is clear that such a description is certainly not limited to the college experience as suggested.


Without straying too far, suffice it to say, that a blanket ban of smoking on campus is common ground for many of us.


On Edit: Not sure if that last comment came through clearly.

Suffice it to say, that regardless of our particular positions on other, less intrusive smoking bans, we are likely to find more common ground on this particular "edict."

[mchoya]

If you read the article closely, Penn St is not one of the schools listed in this ban: "Penn State University, a public university that is not part of the state system, bans smoking inside buildings and university-owned vehicles and within a certain distance of building entrances, but allows smoking elsewhere at its flagship University Park campus in State College, a spokeswoman said. Some of Penn State's other campuses have stricter bans, spokeswoman Lisa Powers said."

It's bizarre, but Penn St is a "state-related" university, as are Temple, Pitt, and Lincoln. The colleges that ARE subject this ban include my two favorite obscure colleges: Indiana University of Pennsylvania and California University of Pennsylvania.

[vcjack]

While we are talking about smoking has anyone noticed the signs on the sides of the Georgetown Hospital saying "We are going smoke free on November [something]". What does that mean?