fatthew
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Post by fatthew on Aug 10, 2008 21:36:47 GMT -5
Great card last night. Four really good fights. I would have loved to see Lesnar finish that fight after he dropped Herring with that big right. When he gets a little more experience, its going to be tough for anyone to get to the 2nd round with Lesnar. You're right about Nog, and I doubt Mir is anxious for a rematch.
Your boy KenFlo looked sharp. Maybe not as aggressive as he usually is, but a really good game plan. Huerta was frustrated & Kenny did a good job of picking his spots. I think DellaGrotte was right - it was a little too soon for Huerta to fight someone like Kenny.
GSP looked amazing. I think he answered alot of the questions about his mental toughness. Those were 5 tough rounds. Full credit to Fitch, though. He should have been finished 3 or 4 times in that fight. That guy has a huge heart.
Now does GSP-Penn happen before Florian gets a shot at Penn? GSP/BJ would probably be at welterweight so it wouldn't affect the lightweight title picture, right?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2008 9:35:25 GMT -5
Amazing card. Considering Affliction touted "Banned" as the "best card in mixed martial arts history," UFC just showed them up big time. My recap: McDonald-Maia: great ju-jitsu bout. Maia deserved the win after spending most of the first round in control, most of the second in ground-and-pound, and pretty much all of the third in full mount on McDonald. That rear-naked choke was a thing of beauty. KenFlo-Huerta: fatthew can attest, my favorite move in all of MMA is the Superman Punch. Nothing pretty about it, just kinda cool, kinda fun to see. That said, what was with Huerta loading up on them all night? He must have thrown four per round... none of them landing, because none were set up at all. Kenny had a great game plan, stuck to it, and totally frustrated Huerta, as fatthew mentioned. He also did a great job taking Huerta down a few times, especially near the edge of the cage, which he used so well to his advantage. He got a good mount in the first, Huerta's back in the second. And then, to totally frustrate Huerta, he goes almost 100% Muay Thai in the third, landing some great strikes. Simply awesome. DellaG knows what he's doing (plus he's got the most entertaining voice to listen to during a fight). Manny Gemburyan-Rob Emerson: Not much to say about a 12 second bout. Cheik-Dan Emerson: This was actually the first time I've ever seen Cheik fight. Have always heard he's a good striker and he showed why Saturday night. Totally smothered Emerson, snuck that nice KO in just before the bell. Lesnar-Herring: Brock looked a lot better than his fight with Mir. Kept a better base when he and Heath went to the ground, used his size to his advantage, totally smothering Heath and preventing him from rolling around or establishing guard at all. That overhand right he threw was SICK to start the bout. If I'm Bas Rutten (is he still training Brock?) I start working on his ju-jitsu/submission wrestling big time. I think Lesnar has some SERIOUS potential but I won't be convinced until he beats a ju-jitsu/submission guy like Mir. GSP-Fitch: REALLY entertaining fight. GSP certainly deserved the unanimous decision, although I actually thought Fitch might have stolen round two. GSP was focused and lethal with his jabs. Fitch was a warrior, but over matched. But my problem with that fight - and my problem with the Rampage/Forrest fight - is that I'm still having a hard time understanding how the judges score these fights. I scored it 49-46, giving Fitch only round two, but I could totally understand 50-45. That said, two judges scored one 10-8 round for GSP, another scored TWO 10-8 rounds for GSP. Huh?!? Yes, Fitch was in trouble several times, but each time he survived or escaped. I dunno, no big deal because they got the outcome correct (unlike Rampage/Forrest, for many) but still a bit weird to me. GSP-Penn would probably take place at welterweight, but does it need to happen before Penn-KenFlo? I think KenFlo is the plain-as-day #1 contender at this point, something you can't say about the welterweight division. So shouldn't Kenny get a shot before the Penn-GSP superfight? EDIT: Besides, save Penn-GSP for the first MSG event... which I could actually go to, of course  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2008 10:54:31 GMT -5
Having had time to reflect on a couple WEC events and the St. Pierre-Fitch UFC PPV, and in anticipation of the upcoming WEC events, UFC and Affliction PPV's and another Elite XC network event, I thought it might be fun to revisit my pound-for-pound rankings:
1 - Anderson Silva (he's Jordan, Gretzky, Ali and Jim Brown in their primes wrapped into one)
2 - GSP (he just looks to be in another dimension at this point)
3 - Fedor Emelianenko (I recognize his prowess, but I'm still waiting for him to truly be tested)
4 - BJ Penn (STILL needs to shut his mouth... but a bout with GSP would be epic)
5 - Urijah Faber (my favorite fighter to watch, can keep climbing with a win over Brown)
6 - Forrest Griffin (nothing sexy about his game, just steady and badass)
7 - Rampage Jackson (we, as the fight-loving public, deserve a rematch)
8 - Miguel Torres (best bantamweight in the world)
9 - Lyoto Machida (yes, he's ranked this high on potential alone, but a convincing win over Thiago Silva gets him NEAR, in my opinion, a title shot)
11 - Antonio Rodrigo Nogieura (taking care of Mir would go a long way to cementing his status as a great champ)
12 - Kid Yamamoto (haven't seen much, but seems to be universally respected and a fight with Faber would be awesome)
13 - Thiago Alves (reluctant to put him here, but if he can start making weight he could get a shot at GSP after Penn)
14 - Chuck Liddell (I think he's still got gas left in the tank for one more run at the title)
EDIT: On the bubble for 15: Paulo Filho, Dan Henderson, Eddie Alvez, Carlos Condit, Randy Couture (if he ever fights again), Kenny Florian
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Aug 16, 2008 11:26:54 GMT -5
Florian is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too high there. Who exactly has he beaten? He's a borderline top 10 LW, not a top p4p guy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2008 16:11:41 GMT -5
Thanks for pointing that out, hoyaboy. I actually meant to move him to "on the bubble," which is why the numbering is off (Kid at 12 as well, Alves at 13, Chuck at 14).
Fixed it.
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fatthew
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Post by fatthew on Aug 17, 2008 9:51:19 GMT -5
Right now, the consensus is that the #1 P4P fighter in the world is either Silva or Fedor. But if GSP beats Penn, can you make the argument that GSP is #1? The list of who he's fought in the last 3 years - Jon Fitch, Matt Serra (2x), Matt Hughes (2x), Josh Koscheck, BJ Penn, Sean Sherk & Frank Trigg. His only loss in that time was the Matt Serra upset. Also, he seems to have answered the questions about his mental toughness.
I still think its Silva, but its an interesting case for GSP.
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fatthew
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Post by fatthew on Aug 17, 2008 10:09:12 GMT -5
Also, its interesting that you have Griffin at 6. Yahoo has him at 8, and Sherdog has him as the No. 1 LHW. I guess the argument is that he is the LHW champion & in his last two fights he beat Rampage & Shogun, so he must be the best LHW & one of the top P4P. But I'm not so sure. In the fight with Shogun, Shogun completely gassed in the 2nd round. He also had some knee problems. And I think there are alot of people who don't agree with the decision in the Rampage fight. Still Forrest won both those fights, so you have to give him credit. But I'd like to see him defend the title before calling him the best LHW.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Aug 17, 2008 10:13:09 GMT -5
I'm always going to go Fedor until he shows a reason to think otherwise. Silva will dominate you on the feet, but isn't a great wrestler or submission guy. GSP is a great wrestler with good hands, but seems to lack a little confidence in his standup lately, and his submissions are nothing special.
Fedor, on the other hand . . .
Dominates on his feet (CroCop, Sylvia, Nog 1, etc.)
Dominates with takedowns and GnP (Nog 3, Herring, etc.)
Hits subs from the bottom (Coleman x2, Choi)
Fedor is the one guy in MMA who is basically always at an advantage no matter what position he is in. Penn would be the next closest, but he isn't consistent with his training so he should be behind GSP and Silva.
Edit - Griffin would probably still be a dog to a few other LHWs, including Machida (who I think would beat him rather easily). In a current achievement ranking Griffin need to be high, but I wouldn't put him up that far in p4p.
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fatthew
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Post by fatthew on Aug 18, 2008 9:05:59 GMT -5
I'm curious what you mean by GSP lacking confidence in his standup? In his last fight, I think he was surprised that Fitch wouldn't go down. But I'm not sure that amounts to losing confidence. Its more a credit to Fitch than a knock on GSP. I also think that Silva is pretty good on the ground. Doesn't he have a black belt in BJJ? And he choked out Dan Henderson.
I hope you're not using the Choi fight as an example of Fedor's submission skills. That guy is the Gheorge Muresan of MMA. Seriously, though, I can't really argue with you on Fedor. I am just prejudiced against the HW division. He and Silva have a similar problem right now - who else do you feed them? Not alot of great fights out there for either guy. Even if Fedor-Couture happens in the next year, will Randy be able to get out of the first round? Especially after the long layoff?
On a side note, I just read that Kimbo's next opponent may be Ken Shamrock. What a circus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 9:23:10 GMT -5
Trust me, hoyaboy... if I could put Machida as the highest ranked LHW, I would. I think eventually he wins the title and goes on a several match run where he defends the title, easily moving up the P4P rankings. But until then, he's just building a resume.
I suppose my ranking IS based a lot on achievement, but I have no problem with that. To me, Griffin beating Rua and Rampage is more impressive than Machida beating Sokoudjou and Ortiz... so for now he's higher.
As to Fedor v. Silva, I go with Silva only because I'm more impressed with the opponents he's defeated than Fedor in their recent fights. I'll be the first to vault Fedor to the top if he continues to dominate and runs through guys like Arlovski and Barnett... and hopefully Couture one day, but I get the sense that fight isn't nearly as ripe as it once was. But until then, Silva keeps the crown in my book.
As for GSP, I wholeheartedly disagree on his "lack of confidence" in striking (see: Fitch's face), but even if I grant you that... does it matter how a guy beats his foes? Say his or Silva's ground/submission games aren't the best (another claim I can't agree with)... who cares? They're still two of the top fighters in the world right now. I'm not interested in how complete their games are, I'm interested in results.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Aug 18, 2008 9:28:40 GMT -5
It's not a big thing, but it seems to me that since the Serra fight GSP has been a little loath to trade and has preferred to go for the takedown. It doesn't really matter, I suppose, since his takedowns have been unstoppable lately. This is just nitpicking, but when comparing great fighters you have to get to that level.
Silva is a BB, but his sub game is just OK. He triangled a horribly gassed Lutter, and RNCed a gassed and hurt Henderson. He's more dangerous off his back with elbows than subs. I'd like to see him fight Okami (which will happen) or Filho (which won't).
The Choi fight doesn't prove anything - it's just one of the fights I could think of off the top of my head where Fedor got a sub off his back. He doesn't get taken down often.
I honestly don't think the HWs are that bad - Fedor, Nog, Barnett, Arlovski, Werdum, Sylvia, Lesnar, Mir, Couture, CroCop, etc. compare favorably to 185 at the least. It's too bad they are split (although there is no point in Fedor fighting any of the UFC heavies right now, so Affliction is actually a better spot for him).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 12:18:03 GMT -5
TUF 8 cast announced:
LIGHTWEIGHTS:
* Jose Aguilar
* Fernando Bernstein
* Junie Allen Browning
* Rolando Delgado
* Joseph Duarte
* Charles Diaz
* Efrain Escudero
* Brandon Garner
* David Kaplan
* Brian McLaughlin
* Wesley Murch
* Shane Nelson
* Phillipe Nover
* Ido Pariente
* John Polakowski
* George Roop
LIGHT-HEAVYWEIGHTS:
* Ryan Bader
* Antwain Britt
* Jules Bruchez
* Lance Evans
* Karen Grigoryan
* Jason Guida
* Ryan Jimmo
* Kyle Kingsbury
* Tom Lawlor
* Ryan Lopez
* Vinicius Magalhaes
* Eric Magee
* Eliot Marshall
* Sean O'Connell
* Shane Primm
* Krzysztof Soszynski
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Hank Scorpio
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Post by Hank Scorpio on Aug 18, 2008 14:29:50 GMT -5
haha, it's very odd to see the announcement i sent out make it to hoyatalk. you're killing independent george!
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Hank Scorpio
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Post by Hank Scorpio on Aug 18, 2008 14:31:33 GMT -5
also, i think for fighter rankings, it goes:
1) Anderson
2) Fedor
3) BJ
I really thought BJ won his last bout with GSP, and that was with BJ being a doughy mofo. He's a totally different fighter now. So is GSP since joining the Jackson camp, but my money's on BJ.
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fatthew
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Post by fatthew on Aug 18, 2008 14:41:42 GMT -5
It's not a big thing, but it seems to me that since the Serra fight GSP has been a little loath to trade and has preferred to go for the takedown. It doesn't really matter, I suppose, since his takedowns have been unstoppable lately. This is just nitpicking, but when comparing great fighters you have to get to that level. Silva is a BB, but his sub game is just OK. He triangled a horribly gassed Lutter, and RNCed a gassed and hurt Henderson. He's more dangerous off his back with elbows than subs. I'd like to see him fight Okami (which will happen) or Filho (which won't). The Choi fight doesn't prove anything - it's just one of the fights I could think of off the top of my head where Fedor got a sub off his back. He doesn't get taken down often. I honestly don't think the HWs are that bad - Fedor, Nog, Barnett, Arlovski, Werdum, Sylvia, Lesnar, Mir, Couture, CroCop, etc. compare favorably to 185 at the least. It's too bad they are split (although there is no point in Fedor fighting any of the UFC heavies right now, so Affliction is actually a better spot for him). I guess I can see that. I thought there were a few times in rounds 4 & 5 in the fight with Fitch where GSP realized he wasn't going to be able to finish the fight on the feet, so he went for the takedown instead. Its not that I think the HW division is bad, though the fact that it is split isn't helping it. There are some talented fighters. Its just that, for whatever reason, there is no one in the division that I really enjoy watching. Except for maybe Lesnar right now. I just don't get excited for the fights. For example, Mir-Nog is not a fight I'm dying to see. Speaking of the HW division, Couture was on Adam Carolla's radio show, and he said that he thinks he & Fedor should get $6-10 million each to fight each other. This is why I can't take guys like Couture & Tito seriously when they complain about salary. They are delusional. The guy who makes $5000/fight on the undercard has a gripe. But not the millionaires who aren't even dedicated 100% to fighting. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2008 7:37:02 GMT -5
I guess I can see that. I thought there were a few times in rounds 4 & 5 in the fight with Fitch where GSP realized he wasn't going to be able to finish the fight on the feet, so he went for the takedown instead. Its not that I think the HW division is bad, though the fact that it is split isn't helping it. There are some talented fighters. Its just that, for whatever reason, there is no one in the division that I really enjoy watching. Except for maybe Lesnar right now. I just don't get excited for the fights. For example, Mir-Nog is not a fight I'm dying to see. Speaking of the HW division, Couture was on Adam Carolla's radio show, and he said that he thinks he & Fedor should get $6-10 million each to fight each other. This is why I can't take guys like Couture & Tito seriously when they complain about salary. They are delusional. The guy who makes $5000/fight on the undercard has a gripe. But not the millionaires who aren't even dedicated 100% to fighting. Agree with everything there. HW fights just don't get me excited like others do. And to be honest, I don't think I'd be all that excited about Fedor-Couture anymore. Randy hasn't fought in forever, he's no spring chicken... whatever. I also agree on the $$$ argument. Yes, I think there are pay discrepancies and instances where UFC can pay guys better. But its the guys getting anywhere from $5,000 to $25,000 a fight, not the Ortiz's and Couture's of the world getting six figures a match. Affliction will be an interesting incubator: the way they are paying their fighters (Sylvia got $800,000!?!??!?!?!?), with only modest PPV returns, they aren't going to be around very long. I believe expenses/salaries exceeded gate/PPV buys on their first fight. I know there are deep pockets at work here, but the promotion better start turning a profit before those pockets look elsewhere for investments. |
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fatthew
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Post by fatthew on Aug 23, 2008 13:53:26 GMT -5
Any feelings on UFC 88 next weekend? I'm not a huge fan of Evans, and I think he's looking at his first loss. Neither guy has fought since the end of 2007, so it'll be interesting to see how that will affect the fight.
I probably won't buy this one. Its not a bad card, but its also not terribly exciting. (Also, the WEC card on 9/10 is a good one, so I'll get my fix.) I would have loved to see Rich Franklin & Dan Henderson fight each other...that fight plus Liddell would have been enough for me to shell out my $45.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2008 8:26:21 GMT -5
No reason to buy 88 for the exact reasons you mention.
Between 89 (free on Spike) and 90 (PPV), October is going to be a SICK month for UFC, not to mention MMA as a whole with the next Affliction PPV and EliteXC show on CBS.
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fatthew
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Post by fatthew on Aug 25, 2008 14:53:02 GMT -5
Looks like its official - Kimbo vs. Ken Shamrock on EliteXC's next CBS show.
Also, Gina Carano & Cris Cyborg are both fighting, but not each other.
Apparently, XC is setting up for a PPV in early 2009 that will feature Carano v. Cyborg & Brett Rogers v. the winner of Kimbo/Ken. My first reaction was that there's no way I'd buy that PPV. But I would like to see Gina & Cris go at it. And if they can find decent opponents for Jake Shields and Robbie Lawler (maybe Cung Le?), it actually might not be a bad card.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2008 10:44:23 GMT -5
Kimbo and Ken Shamrock? Seriously? C'mon, EliteXC.
Don't get me wrong, I've seen Shamrock hold his own against guys much bigger than him in old-school open weight bouts... but that was a long time ago. I look at this fight as (another) lose-lose for EXC. If Shamrock wins, EXC's golden boy just got beat by a washed up, over-the-hill former champ. If Kimbo wins, he's beaten a washed up, over-the-hill former champ and the cat-calls will continue calling him a complete phony, a worthless fighter fighting for a worthless promotion, etc.
GOD, what I wouldn't give to see a legit HW teach Kimbo the finer points of MMA. Hell, I'd even settle for the freakshow that Kimbo-Lesnar would be at this point.
Carano-Cyborg would be a decent fight (if you don't mind watching chicks hit each other), and Cung Le in the situation fatthew mentioned would be something I'd enjoy seeing... but I'm still not even going to CONSIDER an EXC PPV until I'm convinced they have elite fighters fighting at the top of their respective weight classes.
EDIT: Also, I gotta save my PPV money for Penn-GSP, Liddell (if he wins) or Machida (if Liddell loses) versus Griffin, Rampage vs Shogun, Wanderlei-whoever's next... I'd even rather pay to watch Anderson Silva destroy Cote (who I can't stand) because its still a good card.
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