TDK = Awesome

[vcjack]

Jul 22, 2008 7:58:30 GMT -5 buffalohoya said:

This movie was amazing. Period. Random thoughts:

1 - Harvey Dent/Two-Face is dead. Done. Don't expect him back.

2 - The Riddler could be much more sadistic this time around. Think "Saw."

3 - The Penguin could be a ruthless mobster trying to pickup where the now dead mobsters left off, driven by money, money, money.

4 - Catwoman would be dangerous, considering the overall indifference people felt towards "Batman Returns" (minus the joy of seeing Michelle Pfeiffer in that outfit) and the extensive trashing Halle Berry's "Catwoman" took.

5 - Scarecrow is still an option. I'd like to see a lesser-known villan like Hugo Strange or Black Mask and the False Face crime organization.

SPOILER / QUESTION:

[/color][/u]

Can someone help me identify the five murders Batman was going to take the rap for to protect Dent's legacy? I counted Det. Wirtz in the bar, Salvatore Maroni, Maroni's driver... who else?

EDIT: Dent himself? Or are we going to expand the net to include the judge? The cops guarding Dent in the hospital?

[/quote]

1. I agree, I think the Nolans are too honest to pull a "he's not really dead" to revive a popular character. Maybe they should have redone the ending after Ledger's death but I think its fine as it is

2. I would think you would have to make the Riddler a Saw like character, and apparently Johnny Depp is the leading candidate for him

3. I'm still skeptical but I think it could work if you make it a battle of fortunes, the unlimited funds of the Wayne empire against the pooled resources of the mob.

4. I agree that it would be dangerous to make Catwoman the narrative vehicle

5. Minor villians like Scarecrow peppered in would be good (kind of like how Scarecrow was used in this movie)


As for your question I think the 5 are the three you mentioned, Dent, and the cop the Joker shot at the hospital (remember Gordon said "two of them were cops")

[Boz]

The "Dark Knight" indeed:

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,388124,00.html

(I apologize if someone has already posted this. I am not reading posts in this thread until I can see the movie on Friday)

[vcjack]

Jul 22, 2008 8:56:55 GMT -5 Boz said:

The "Dark Knight" indeed:

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,388124,00.html

(I apologize if someone has already posted this. I am not reading posts in this thread until I can see the movie on Friday)

I don't believe it, he was probably just going to return some videotapes

[hoyatables]

Thoughts on villains:

The Nolans have already shown a willingness to probe the comics for key villains that aren't necessarily the ones the general public remembers from the TV show or from the Superfriends action figures (see, e.g. Ra's Al Ghul). I think there's a broad palette to choose from, and Buff is right on with some of the guys like Black Mask.

Personally, I think we're going to get Catwoman -- her personality/background would fit in very well as a potential ally/love interest for a "Batman-on-the-run".

I agree that you could definitely make Penguin or Riddler scary and creepy. I'm pretty sure Penguin becomes a child molester, and Riddler becomes a serial criminal of some ilk. But I'm not sure I like either of them in the next movie.

I'd actually prefer a self-righteous villain -- one who thinks he can do no wrong; one who people think at first is their savior. It sets up a great tension to lead to the end, where the roles are reversed and Batman is revealed (remembered?) as the hero. In the comics, they did this a number of years back with Lex Luthor, amazingly enough, as that foil, and I thought it worked really well (the reveal as to who was behind it all didn't come until the end and it was a good one). Or a guy like Maxwell Lord. You need a real executive type. Perhaps they could recast the character of Hush into a corporate exec by day/baddie by night.

[strummer8526]

Based on the willingness to use pretty extensive technology for Batman's arsenal, I could see a Mr. Freeze potentially working. He wouldn't have to have the ridiculous, oversized, Transformer-like suit. I could see something much smaller, sleaker, etc. that would allow him to be both a villain with a power and also a businessy or political-type character. Like instead of the suit, he has some device that regulates his body temperature internally or whatever. Once you take him out of this nonsense-- img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00018/ed_imgRSNN1921XX_18681a.jpg --you can imagine him in a more versatile role. If I remember my Batman correctly, he has a wife, so that provides a compelling female presence (maybe in flashback form), so....maybe?

But yeah, Two Face is dead. These writers seem to be too creative to drag back a character that, by all accounts, seemed to die.

I'm sure I could look this up, but someone here will know anyway: how many Batman's are they expecting this group to make? I'm wondering if we make it to 4+, do we ever see Robin?

[hoyatables]

Actually if you want scientists with pretty wives, there's Dr. Kirk Langstrom (the Man-Bat) and his wife Francine, who's a doctor/researcher as well.

One of the creepiest/coolest villains that is always good for a chuckle is the Ventriloquist, who I believe was actually created for the animated show but has entered into the mainstreet. Ties to the mob and all that, though I think there would be a hard sell here on the reality front.

Speaking of rogues galleries, no one has a cooler one than the Flash, in my mind. The names may be right out of the 1950s (Captain Cold? Heatwave? Pied Piper?) but they are consistently written as a very interesting bunch. In the right hands it could be a really great set of movies

[Bando]

Finally saw it, thought it was awesome. Some food for thought from an interesting review I read:

Along comes the Joker, a ghoul spreading chaos through the streets...and the most logical character in the movie. What The Dark Knight does with the Joker is what should always been done with the Joker: make him a character who believes that the true joke is order, laws, the artificial restraints of society, and that his purpose is to expose the joke, as violently and as spectacularly as possible. Batman’s savage dedication to the preservation of order is what makes them such great enemies - they differ in method and purpose, but not so much outlook. But where the movie goes off the rails is in the resolution of their conflict; whereas the Dent and Batman relationship ends with the preservation of Dent’s greatness in death, the Joker’s ultimate fall comes in the choice of free people not to bow to savagery

...

What makes the Joker a villain, Batman an antihero and Dent a supposed hero isn’t how they view the city of Gotham. They all look on it with a similar disappointment and disdain for what it is and its lack of understanding of what it could be. What makes them what they are is how they seek to transform Gotham; the Joker by burning it to the ground, Batman through preservation by almost any means necessary and Dent by working within the system to reform and rebuild it. If this is the salvation of a society on its last legs, it’s hard to argue that the empire should persevere.

Also, Watchmen better be as good as the trailer looks, and not 300 with superheroes.

[Boz]

OK........

1. This was a pretty damn good movie. Not exceptional -- except for Ledger's performance -- but very good. Ledger should win an Oscar, but probably won't. (it may be in bad taste to say this, but I think it's true - if he were alive he'd have no chance; because he has passed away, I think he will be nominated, but not win)

2. Having said that, I DO think they could bring the Joker back. Maybe not for the next film, but if there are others after that, then I think there are plenty of actors who could do it.

3. Christian Bale's "Batman voice" was beginning to annoy me by the end. Sorry, but it just had to be said.

4. Saying Maggie Gyllenhall is an improvement over Katie Holmes is like saying that Busch is an improvement over Keystone. I love Gyllenhall, I think she's great in many movies, but I don't think this was one of them.

5. How about the Knightfall storyline for the next movie?

6. The psychology of Batman and his villains is really fascinating. I recommend the Batman show they've been running on The History Channel for anyone who is into that sort of thing.

7. Speaking of which, I think The Riddler is a good idea for a villain, but I'm having a hard time envisioning Johnny Depp. Ironically, I think that Jim Carrey played his narcissism perfectly, even if by accident, since all Jim Carrey can do is ham it up.

8. I do not think the Watchmen will disappoint.

9. I do think Terminator will disappoint....except I don't think anyone's actually looking forward to it.

10. Is Peter Jackson ever going to #^#*#**% make that Halo movie, godammit! Every time I see a good superhero/comic movie, or previews for other superhero/comic movies, I am reminded that this movie has to be made. Stupid Hollywood and their hiatuses! (yes, yes, I will go see the Bioshock movie and the Gears of War movie, but neither of them is Halo, dammit!)

[williambraskyiii]

Boz, how old are you?

[Boz]

Physically or emotionally? There's a big difference.

Chronologically, I am in my late 30s, but if you look at my DVD collection, which consists mostly of animated TV shows, or the boxes of comics I have in storage, I might be in my early teens.

And yet still single. Funny, that.

[hifigator]

Jul 26, 2008 0:44:27 GMT -5 Boz said:

Physically or emotionally? There's a big difference.

Chronologically, I am in my late 30s, but if you look at my DVD collection, which consists mostly of animated TV shows, or the boxes of comics I have in storage, I might be in my early teens.

And yet still single. Funny, that.

Do you still have pocket protectors in the shirt pockets of your perma-press shirts?

[SFHoya99]

Haven't seen it yet, but in regards to Robin, one way I could see them pulling it off is if Robin is female.

[FewFAC]

Woulda seen it this weekend except for Comic-Con. Damn you comic book geeks...except for you comic book geeks who got S-Jo, Eva Mendes, and Jaime King into one movie. You, sir, are geniuses.

[theexorcist]

1. Did everybody else have kids under ten (and not a small number of them) in the theater watching this movie?

2. Watchmen looks authentic. Frighteningly so. Though the most celebrated graphic novel of all time is probably "Maus".

BELOW THERE BE SPOILERS

3. Eh on the movie. Batman Begins was much better. Ledger portrayed a psychotic homicidal maniac well, but he didn't have a lot of screen time and the subplots took time from him. Nicholson was the better Joker.

4. The knock-it-out-of-the-park performance *should* have been Eckhardt, but it just didn't work. By the end, he was making every single comment about how he had lost Rachel and didn't sound convincing - he was whiny, not someone who had just lost the love of his life. Dent playing Russian Roulette with that thug was the critical scene .. and it just tanked. It needed more time - deploying two villains this time, both of whom needed screen time to develop (as opposed to R'as al Ghul in the first, who just showed up out of nowhere and was impressively evil), didn't work.

5. The movie dragged by the end. You could have eliminated the Hong Kong and the Gotham General subplots without losing anything (and you could have added one more Joker scene).

[Jack]

Jul 28, 2008 6:24:13 GMT -5 theexorcist said:

5. The movie dragged by the end. You could have eliminated the Hong Kong and the Gotham General subplots without losing anything (and you could have added one more Joker scene).

I thought the Gotham General scenes were the best part of the film. The interactions between Joker and Dent were incredible, and the look on Joker's face as he was trying to get the detonator work was pure evil.

Hong Kong was not necessary for plot development, but it was a pretty cool action sequence. Even at 2:30 I would not have cut anything from that movie.

[TBird41]

Jul 28, 2008 8:52:47 GMT -5 Jack said:

Jul 28, 2008 6:24:13 GMT -5 theexorcist said:

5. The movie dragged by the end. You could have eliminated the Hong Kong and the Gotham General subplots without losing anything (and you could have added one more Joker scene).

I thought the Gotham General scenes were the best part of the film. The interactions between Joker and Dent were incredible, and the look on Joker's face as he was trying to get the detonator work was pure evil.

Hong Kong was not necessary for plot development, but it was a pretty cool action sequence. Even at 2:30 I would not have cut anything from that movie.

The part where the Joker uses the Purell was hilarious as well. And the Gotham General scenes were really important in that they showed the Joker pushing Dent over the edge and gave us a little more of what the Joker stands for / wants

[theexorcist]

I should have been clearer - I didn't object to the bedside discussion, but adding it as part of another bomb subplot tacked on way too much time. The Joker could have gotten in, and performed his conversation with Dent without blowing up the hospital. Earlier on, when his character was still being developed, he could have been shown blowing up buildings with the (darkly humorous) jabbing of the detonator.

The other disturbing thing - Gotham utterly collapsing as a city, with bomb blast after bomb blast. If a similar spate of terrorist bombings hit some major city in the US, the feds would be in there immediately and Batman would be ancillary. Think about the total devastation that's waged - Batman Begins didn't even have a sliver of the destruction, which, ironically, made it more realistic.

[Boz]

The feds would have been all over it earlier than that...when the federal judge was assassinated.

Since they were filing RICO charges, that had to be a federal court judge, no?

I'm sure one of the lawyers here will tell me if I'm wrong.

Even if she wasn't, I'm pretty sure the killing of a police commissioner, a judge, and attempting to kill a DA and a mayor would have an army of FBI agents descending on Gotham.

[strummer8526]

I wonder how Wayne Enterprises in incorporated and if it complies with all federal codes and regulations.

[vcjack]

Jul 28, 2008 12:08:32 GMT -5 strummer8526 said:

I wonder how Wayne Enterprises in incorporated and if it complies with all federal codes and regulations.

I'm wondering why it would be a big deal if all of the bridges and non existant tunnels were shut down in Chicago.

I'm also currious on where those people were going by ferry? Michigan? Canada?


[/knows Gotham is supposed to be New York but damn proud that it was obviously the Second City/]