SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 29, 2008 19:23:32 GMT -5
Quite and exciting game. Score was only 1-0, but Spain dominated play. Torres was amazing -- had the only goal and hit the post on another. And he had a couple other close opportunities too.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 29, 2008 19:24:04 GMT -5
who knew Soccer, I mean Futbol, could be so exciting!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2008 7:35:00 GMT -5
C'mon, seriously?
Every single time I try and give soccer another chance, I'm treated to a dive-fest that makes me EMBARASSED for soccer fans. From what I understand, the sport has made great strides in the last 20-30 years to eliminate hooliganism, is working hard to eradicate racism (good luck)... in my opinion, they should be busting their asses to get flopping/floppers out of the game.
Ridiculous. Erased all the goodwill the Turkey-based excitement had generated.
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hifigator on Jun 30, 2008 15:14:03 GMT -5
After the Germany-Turkey and Russia-Spain games, I found the final to be a bit anti-climactic.
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chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,314
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Post by chep3 on Jun 30, 2008 15:22:26 GMT -5
I think finals usually are. Super Bowls for example, are frequently less interesting games than conference championships. And Russia-Spain, while entertaining, wasn't in doubt for the last 40 minutes.
As for diving, yeah it's a problem, I think everyone concedes that. But I for one didn't think that the final was particularly bad for it. And in any case, I think non-soccer fans are too quick to harp on any indication of diving. If you were to watch an NBA game for the first time, wouldn't you be shocked at the way that Manu Ginobili or Paul Pierce drive into players, initiate the contact, and then throw their arms up like they've just been shot? The way Kobe complains about a no call every time he misses a shot? Take college basketball for example. We all sit and watch Hansborough and Duke get a trillion calls per game that are illegitimate, yet it never shakes our fundamental interest in the game. Yet when the same thing happens in soccer, it's somehow so offensive as to preclude anyone from watching it? I think that all sports have their issues with players cutting corners to get competitive edges. I don't see why soccer's are any more distasteful than any other sport's.
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theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by theexorcist on Jun 30, 2008 15:40:55 GMT -5
I think finals usually are. Super Bowls for example, are frequently less interesting games than conference championships. And Russia-Spain, while entertaining, wasn't in doubt for the last 40 minutes. As for diving, yeah it's a problem, I think everyone concedes that. But I for one didn't think that the final was particularly bad for it. And in any case, I think non-soccer fans are too quick to harp on any indication of diving. If you were to watch an NBA game for the first time, wouldn't you be shocked at the way that Manu Ginobili or Paul Pierce drive into players, initiate the contact, and then throw their arms up like they've just been shot? The way Kobe complains about a no call every time he misses a shot? Take college basketball for example. We all sit and watch Hansborough and Duke get a trillion calls per game that are illegitimate, yet it never shakes our fundamental interest in the game. Yet when the same thing happens in soccer, it's somehow so offensive as to preclude anyone from watching it? I think that all sports have their issues with players cutting corners to get competitive edges. I don't see why soccer's are any more distasteful than any other sport's. In soccer, it's considered part of the game to act like you've just been poleaxed. That distasteful habvit has been imported into college basketball and the NBA. And soccer's final game has usually been a total turkey: 1990: West Germany and Argentina play boring, defensive soccer. A 1-0 win came from a debatable penalty. 1994: 0-0. Penalties. 1998. A whitewash. France thumps Brazil 3-0. 2002. Brazil beats Germany. Eh. Kahn played well, but the Brazilians were too good. 2006. 1-1. Wow. Penalties again. Most famous for the best player going nuts. The last five Super Bowls included one memorable comeback, two close games, and two stinkers. Or we can go to the Super Bowls of 1990 (stinker, 55-10), 1994 (stinker, 30-13), 1998 (memorable, 31-24), 2002 (very memorable, 24-21), and 2006 (forgettable, 21-10). The catenaccio approach kills soccer at the final level. Anyone who fails to recognize this is a shill.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 30, 2008 19:39:28 GMT -5
I thought the final was exciting. There wasn't much of any flopping.
And while Spain dominated play, the outcome was far from certain given the score was only 1-0. Germany had a very close chance in the last minutes of the game. Anything can happen in a 1-0 game.
OK, I don't watch soccer all year. Rarely in fact. Then again, NBA regular season games aren't very exciting either because they don't mean anything. Only the last couple rounds of the playoffs generate top level NBA basketball.
Dismissing a soccer Euro final without watching because years ago you saw some flopping on the field during an MLS game? priceless.
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thornski
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 155
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Post by thornski on Jun 30, 2008 20:41:00 GMT -5
I thought it was a pretty good game. It was obviously going to be hard to live up to any game Turkey was involved with in the knockout stage, including Germany-Turkey...
As for finals, the Euro finals have generally been pretty good. 04 and 08 have been 1-0 games, but 2000 was a 2-1 golden goal win for France, including a last-minute equalizer in injury time to send it to overtime, plus a stunning game-winner from Trezeguet. And 1996 was another game decided by a golden goal, 2-1 win from Germany after being down 1-0.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jul 1, 2008 7:42:00 GMT -5
booo that 96 game. Why are we always the victims of these dramatic come from behind wins.
yeah the game was pretty good and overall I think it was a great tournament. as for flopping. I think it's been getting better. I even remember seeing a player getting carded for diving earlier in the tournament.
I think it's actually more acceptable in soccer than it is in basketball. In Soccer it makes sense it's a strategy that worked because of the now stops nature of soccer. You stay down to pause the run of play so everyone catches a break. It can kill another teams momentum and it can waste time when you're up a goal. I get that. In basketball there isn't that same motivation so it seems even more cheap to me.
Oh and I hate the whole offensive player initiating the contact foul in basketball. meaning I hate it when a offensive player throws himself into a defender and gets a foul called against the defender. I also think the defender should be allowed to be in the air as long as he doesn't swing his arms into the offensive player. I also hate the call of when the defenders arms aren't perfectly straight so it's a foul. If the arms are stationary and above you head it shouldn't be a foul. gripe over.
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chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by chep3 on Jul 1, 2008 12:56:32 GMT -5
The catenaccio approach kills soccer at the final level. Anyone who fails to recognize this is a shill. Don't disagree with that, but Spain didn't really do that on Sunday. They got up a goal, but still pushed on the break and got some amazing chances out of it. They definitely deserved a 2nd goal in that game. Who knows, maybe if in 2010, the favorites are Spain and Argentina with the Portuguese and the Dutch not far behind, we'll see more exciting, attacking soccer.
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chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by chep3 on Jul 1, 2008 12:57:11 GMT -5
Oh and I hate the whole offensive player initiating the contact foul in basketball. meaning I hate it when a offensive player throws himself into a defender and gets a foul called against the defender. I believe that's called the Scottie Reynolds.
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theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by theexorcist on Jul 1, 2008 13:54:53 GMT -5
The catenaccio approach kills soccer at the final level. Anyone who fails to recognize this is a shill. Don't disagree with that, but Spain didn't really do that on Sunday. They got up a goal, but still pushed on the break and got some amazing chances out of it. They definitely deserved a 2nd goal in that game. Who knows, maybe if in 2010, the favorites are Spain and Argentina with the Portuguese and the Dutch not far behind, we'll see more exciting, attacking soccer. My point was not against Spain, but against Germany. Someone, I think at halftime, made the comment to the extent of "wow, this is great, because the Germans will finally come out of their defensive shell". 2002 and 2006 were awful as offense goes. Fifteen playoff games both years. Both teams scored in four of them. In one case in 2002 and two in 2006, neither team scored and they went to penalties. 1998, by contrast, had both teams scoring in nine cases and a scoreless draw in one (stupid Italians). 1994 had ten and a scoreless draw once (stupid Italians again, and in the final, too). It frustrates me when people claim that American objections to soccer are based on the fact that we're not able to appreciate a 0-0 draw. I can appreciate a 0-0 draw in soccer much as I can appreciate a low-scoring basketball game. However, if the reason that a no-shot clock basketball games ends 34-30 is that the offenses on both sides stink and the team holds the ball for the sole virtue of holding the ball, then it's a boring game.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Jul 1, 2008 15:50:33 GMT -5
I agree with much of what has been said, but at least in my opinion, the Russia-Spain match in the semifinals was as exciting as the final and the Turkey-Germany game was an instant classic. That is all that I am saying. I didn't really have a dog in the fight the whole time. A good friend of mine grew up in Germany, as his father was in the military, so I was pulling for the Germans for him, but I really wasn't going to lose any sleep about it.
In any case, the next big international tussle that I care about is some 3 months away. The Ryder Cup! Let's win that damn trophy this year!
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