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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2008 15:49:12 GMT -5
You must have not seen last year's Finals. Or the first four games a few years back between the Pistons and the Spurs when every game was a blowout. Actually, I did. They sucked. So does this series. They aren't mutually exclusive. Your point?
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Z
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Post by Z on Jun 10, 2008 0:13:18 GMT -5
to the "pierce was faking" crowd, the man did get shanked 7 (or was it nine) times at a bar shooting pool a few years ago and managed to remain an elite player, so i'll take my chances with his toughness.
the west was a soft conference this year- despite (as bill simmons would say) bruce bowen's carcass being paraded around as the best defender since bill russell - the chickens are coming home to roost. also, lamar odom, as much as i love him as a ny baller, has predictably shrunk. kobe reverted to "i hate my teammates for not being as good as i am" mode about halfway through game 1 and that will be the defining moment of the series.
my guess: lakers win game 3 and 5, celts game 4 and 6 and its over.
also, can we stop with the "garnett doesnt want the ball with the game on the line" meme: name me one nba 7 footer that was asked to create and make the final shot in a big playoff series 20 feet from the basket. its fun to watch MJ (kerr, paxson,...), kobe, parker, wade et al do it buts its hard (and dumb) to create your own shot when you are a 7 footer that far away.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jun 10, 2008 1:01:20 GMT -5
First off--nobody debates he was in pain--the theatrics of the wheelchair were ridiculous. He's not the only guy to do this--as was mentioned--Vince Carter acts as if he has been shot in the head after a blister develops. Wade--the master of the "Cart me off" only to come roaring back out--and Pierce on Thursday for the 2nd time this Postseason--also did this against Cavs where he layed on the ground only to come right back in and play as if nothing was wrong.
Being stabbed doesn't make you soft/tough. For all we know--he could've acted like a female dog or been Hee-Man. I wasn't there and neither were you--so how do we know how he reacted to that? I'm just glad he's okay and didn't get killed.
Garnett shouldn't be shooting jumpers with nobody on Lakers capable of stopping him in the post. That is the entire point--why is a 7'1 guy who is being defended by nobody that can stop him on block insist on fadeaways and face up jumpers? He's never been a franchise player--very few guys are in sports--he was a face of franchise and a great player--who is in the role he's best suited--as "one of the top players" not the top player. If game is on line--KG plays/gets tight. Always has. History is there to be seen and if Pierce wasn't on Celtics and it was up to Allen/KG--this team would've been out in Round Two.
I've seen Ewing, Hakeem, Kareem, Duncan, all take last possession shots for their team in late situations--and most of them were not jumpers--so there is 4 HOF who have done this. Ewing and Duncan have taken jumpers though--and made them. Alonzo hit one to win a series against Boston in his first postseason appearance. Although he's not 7'0.
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FewFAC
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Post by FewFAC on Jun 10, 2008 23:02:21 GMT -5
There ought to be an investigation in re: the officiating tonight. How embarrassing for the NBA in one of its most compelling moments. I won't be surprised in the least if the Lakers win; though I would like to see the validation for Doc. And I wonder if Pierce may actually be more seriously hurt than initial reports indicated.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jun 11, 2008 1:27:22 GMT -5
Will someone who is over 6'10 for either team get their behind in the paint and go to work? This is like watching a 6'3 and under league Finals. Between Gasol, Fouldom-I mean Odom, KG, this is some of the softest crap I've seen in NBA Finals in a while.
A bad game tonight--and Celtics had no business being in the game--so if I were them, I'd feel pretty good about Game 4. Gasol has been beyond awful--he's played scared/timid. Too much thinking--just play. KG--overthinking--get to the rim and use quickness against Gasol--he can't stop Garnett unless Garnett insists on taking jumpers/fadeaways.
Are Tafoya and Doc Rivers sleeping together? If so, I'll have to tell her husband Mark to head out with me and the fellas this weekend for some LIMA time, and I'm not talking about Jose. ;D
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 11, 2008 9:52:41 GMT -5
Will someone who is over 6'10 for either team get their behind in the paint and go to work? This is like watching a 6'3 and under league Finals. Between Gasol, Fouldom-I mean Odom, KG, this is some of the softest crap I've seen in NBA Finals in a while. A bad game tonight--and Celtics had no business being in the game--so if I were them, I'd feel pretty good about Game 4. Gasol has been beyond awful--he's played scared/timid. Too much thinking--just play. KG--overthinking--get to the rim and use quickness against Gasol--he can't stop Garnett unless Garnett insists on taking jumpers/fadeaways. Are Tafoya and Doc Rivers sleeping together? If so, I'll have to tell her husband Mark to head out with me and the fellas this weekend for some LIMA time, and I'm not talking about Jose. ;D Are you talking about his wife? Have you seen her? I turned on the game last night 10 minutes left and was shocked to see Boston winning. I figured the refs would have LA up by 20 at that point. After learning how poorly KG and Pierce played/shot, I'm amazed it was that close. I agree about no one playing inside. It's fine for KG to have a diverse game and play outside some, BUT THAT"S ALL HE DOES. That's why I've always hated his game. And Gasol, can he be more of a whiner? He's got soft hands and a good touch for a 7-footer, but definitely not a banger.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jun 11, 2008 11:34:51 GMT -5
Yeah--I thought Doc Rivers said it best--"we didn't blow this--we should've been blown out". Lakers played tight upfront-and only frontcourt player who was aggressive--Trevor Ariza--and he had 4 big points and has no legs right now due to being out with injury--at least he didn't play scared. Luke Walton--ever hear of dunking the ball near rim? KG missed 3 dunks--but at least he went strong/drew 2 fouls on 2 of misses and then he resorted to his fadeaway game. He can't be stopped by any Laker down low--and refuses to go down in paint. Kendrick Perkins couldn't be stopped in terms of getting position/good shot--but he never sees ball.
Gasol is the biggest whiner I've seen--he could shoot someone and blame the victim for getting in way of his bullets. I take that back--he's not that aggressive--he could bump into a butterfly and accuse Turiaf of doing it when PETA got on his case.
This is not very good basketball for a Finals--and it just shows you that for most viewers--the teams involved or rivalry doesn't matter--it's level of play that determines a "classic series". We've had about 3 classic games in this entire Postseason--and I still say best game was first day of Playoffs between Spurs-Suns--guys hitting shots, making plays, and playing entertaining basketball. Pierce-LeBron duel is a close second--that was not high level by entire teams--but fun to watch those two going at each other/accepting the role of carrying their teams.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jun 11, 2008 14:24:06 GMT -5
Back from my trip to SF, and got to see most of last night's game. Didn't see a second of game 2, as I was at a wedding.
Until they prove otherwise, I'm going to be referring to Gasol and Odom as the Kwame Brothers. For the first 42 minutes last night, they might as well have been invisible. Gasol even shot free throws like Kwame.
I do give credit to the Celtic defense. It has dominated the Laker offense for all but the surge from the end of game 2, which I'll bet was more attributable to the Celtics relaxing than anything the Lakers did.
Whoever above predicted the Celtics winning games 4 and 6 I think has it right.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Jun 11, 2008 15:10:16 GMT -5
Have to agree about the Celts' defense - it has been the better of the Laker O/Celtic D matchup.
Kobe really put the Lakers on his shoulders last night and showed why he's the MVP. Tomorrow night will be telling. Prediction: Lakers take games 4, 5, and 7. Why? I have no idea; I'm a total Laker homer and think both teams have kinda stunk in this series so far.
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FewFAC
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Post by FewFAC on Jun 11, 2008 21:42:25 GMT -5
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Jun 12, 2008 22:56:51 GMT -5
I don't believe what I just saw.
Incredible defensive effort, every man on the floor made clutch shots (even KG). Yes, the Lakers choked plenty, but sweet fancy Moses, that was epic.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jun 12, 2008 23:16:03 GMT -5
Gotta give Boston credit--and when I see 2 teams have leads of 20+ pts and game is lost by one team and narrowed down to 2 by other--that sums up this Finals. Too much jump shooting by both teams--it really comes down to which team decides to go to basket/play aggressively or post up--and when they do--they score. Boston did their damage in 2nd Half while Odom and Gasol were worthless.
Pierce and Posey were the difference tonight--and thought Gasol's missed dunk off a perfect pass was difference for Lakers. That guy makes Garnett look like Jordan when it comes to toughness on the court. Odom played like a modern day Charles Smith (Pitt Player) with his airball layup when Celts were giving him a dunk/layup whatever he wanted--they just didn't want to foul--and he missed the entire rim and square of the backboard--a true embarrassment.
Celtics are a nice representative of the NBA this year--and deserve their title. Not a great team--but played like Pros in terms of not throwing in the towel and knowing what roles they should play--Doc Rivers completely outcoached Phil Jackson when it came to personnel moves--and Jackson not having Fisher in when Celtics were making their push in 4th was big mistake-Farmar was completely awful in 2nd Half.
Off topic--which Celtic goes to lockerroom in Game 5 and how much of an overreaction/overhyping will Bill Simmons make this game? These are two good teams--not great and that has been the level of basketball. If you are a Celtic fan--that was a great comeback and enjoy it--if you are objective and not involved--this has been more of the same--mediocre NBA Finals Basketball. Too much jump shooting--too much 3pt shooting by both teams, and not enough open court basketball-which ironically is when BOTH teams play their best offense--and then for whatever reason go away from it. I like Boston's toughness more--which was shown tonight--and Pierce is difference-he is a sloppy looking guy--kind of frumpy looking--his handle is not high quality--but he gets it done and doesn't quit. Did a nice job using his strength/size on DEFENSE--where I thought he was even better tonight then down stretch with his drives/collapses/falling.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 13, 2008 10:42:26 GMT -5
The Celtics seemed like they wanted it more in the second half to use a tired cliche. They got the loose balls, the 50/50 balls, the contested rebounds. Everybody on the court stepped and made a play for Boston - Allen, Pierce, KG, Posey, House.
I agree with you RDF about Pierce, I never realized how ragged his game was (maybe that's more recent, or because he's injured), but he's the heart of that team and he made the plays down the stretch.
Again, despite all the hype, we see why Kobe is not, and will not be, Jordan. 1. I simply don't see how Jordan would have let his team lose that game. 2. Did you see Kobe's post-game press conference? What the heck was that? Very weird and somewhat immature and unprofessional.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jun 13, 2008 13:00:03 GMT -5
Second biggest Laker playoff choke job in LA Laker history. Biggest was game 5 against the Knicks in 1970, which was completely incomprehensible. In one respect this was worse, because it was at home. Totally pathetic. Have more to say, but can't do it now, as I have to attend a funeral this afternoon (no, not for the Lakers ). The one thing I will say is that 1984 was much worse in terms of the pain level, although not approaching this level of collapse.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Jun 13, 2008 13:24:24 GMT -5
That hurt to watch. Especially surrounded by Celtic fans. Ugh.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 13, 2008 14:56:33 GMT -5
Again, despite all the hype, we see why Kobe is not, and will not be, Jordan. 1. I simply don't see how Jordan would have let his team lose that game. 2. Did you see Kobe's post-game press conference? What the heck was that? Very weird and somewhat immature and unprofessional. I hate Jordan but I would never insult him by saying Kobe is at his level as so many people tend to. And its not as if I think Kobe is a stiff. Surely he's an all-time great himself. But he's nowhere near MJ. Just look at Jordan's fg% over the course of his career and compare it to Kobe's. From the very beginning MJ was around that 50%. Kobe never got there even when playing with a guy like Shaq who drew most of the attention of the defenses. Most importantly Jordan never seemed to have any "quiet" post season games. Kobe had too many of them when he was playing alongside Shaq. But I could give him a pass because he wasn't the Main Guy on those teams, Shaq was. Kobe was Pippen. But when Kobe finally forced Shaq out and the team became his what happened? Either the Lakers missed the playoffs or the Lakers were given first-round exits courtesy of the Phoenix Suns. I love those Suns but if Kobe was truly at Jordan's level his Lakers should have won at least one of those series. I mean it wasn't as if those Suns made it to the NBA Finals or anything. I was expecting Kobe to have one of those Jordan-like 63 points game in the old Boston Garden against a Suns team that was interested in playing fast and playing no defense. But Kobe kept on having those "quiet" games against the Suns in which he put up about 26 points, most in the first half. Not Jordan-like. And for this series? If he was Jordan the Lakers win game #1, possibly game #2 and definitely game #4 last night.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jun 13, 2008 15:07:55 GMT -5
i don't know what it is, but i get the same sick feeling in my stomach when i see kome as i do when i see me-rod. both have that arrogant look to them that makes me want to put my foot through the tv. when it's going bad for LA, he spends his time calling for the ball and then thowing a hissy fit when he doesn't get it. the entire lakers team is a bunch of women, crying about fouls after every game instead of playing tough on the court.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jun 13, 2008 16:02:16 GMT -5
I disagree with the Bryant Bashing. What team did Jordan ever beat with inferior teammates? Michael Jordan was the nastiest competitor I saw on court--and a wonderful talent but his legacy is beating an over the hill Laker team, a good but not great Portland team, A decent but not great Suns team, Seattle, and Utah twice. What team out of that list was better then Jordan's Bulls? What did Jordan do when he faced better teams? He lost--so how does this automatically turn into "Michael would've willed his team...." Jordan couldn't beat teams by himself in a series--as Bryant is not going to do in this series. The Knicks Jordan faced were Patrick Ewing and......who else on those teams was a guy you view as a Great/HOF caliber player? Kobe Bryant is facing 3 guys who will be in HOF in this series on opposing team, and which Laker teammate will be a HOF?
It's easy to take shots at Bryant--and some criticism is deserved. I'm with Bryant/Buss 100% on their comments in regards to Shaquille O'Neal. That decision has already proven to be correct--Staples sells out, Lakers are in Finals/built to contend for rest of Bryant's career--he's 30 years old--and Shaq is washed up. Could Lakers have won another title with Shaq/Kobe? Maybe--but you are going to assume O'Neal would've decided to workout and get into shape--which I believe he only did due to his feelings being hurt that Lakers sided with Kobe in their disagreement.
Bryant's comments about Bynum, etc...is exactly like Jordan. If Bulls would've done what Jordan wanted in terms of roster moves--they wouldn't have 6 rings. Jordan was and continues to be an idiot when it comes to talent evaluation. Being a great talent doesn't mean you know what makes a great fit for a team. Bryant is similar. He didn't want Bynum-and in end it'll be Bynum's development that will decide whether he wins another ring or not. Kupchak has put right pieces around Bryant--who deserves credit for getting this Lakers team without Bynum to Finals.
Everyone's memory of Jordan is of this superhuman who could beat great teams by himself. Again--what great team did he beat in his 6 title runs? It's not any different then Bryant/Shaq Lakers--they beat decent/not great teams for their rings. I'd argue that Lakers might not have won a title if it weren't for Bryant's performance in Game 4 of Finals against Pacers that gave them 3-1 lead and he was spectacular with Shaq fouling out. The Lakers were in trouble if they lost that game.
Bryant has never said one thing about himself being in Jordan's class--that is the media. I love how he competes and isn't afraid on the court. He didn't shoot well yesterday--but he also did what all time greats should do when their team is struggling--he kept firing and attacking and if you noticed--it was his teammates that were deferring/shrinking come late in game--Odom/Gasol especially.
I'm not one that thinks you are a failure or a level beneath someone else if you lose in Finals. IF Bryant loses this--as it appears--he'll be 3-2 in 5 NBA Finals apperances. If he shows up to another 4/5 in his career and wins 2 more and loses others--he'd still be one of best I've seen play. What makes guys like Bryant and LeBron similar to Jordan--the minute they walk onto a court--you expect their team to have a chance/no matter who they are playing. Very few players that lace them up you can say that. I think James and Bryant are two who deserve that praise. Michael Jordan is the same. That is where I compare those type of players. That is difference between a franchise player and a "Face" of franchise--who needs help like a Ray Allen/KG. Nothing wrong with that--but if I were picking guys that could instill a confidence of having a chance to win a game--realistic or not--Kobe Bryant and LeBron James top the list in current NBA. They've proven it with back to back Finals Apperances with good (Bryant's Lakers) and mediocre/subpar (LeBron's Cavs).
Remember--Jordan never faced zone defenses, which is a huge help in defending tremendous individual talents on offensive end or great big men, and league used him as their "Superhero". You think Jordan would've been called for bumping Paul Pierce if his Bulls were down a posession under a minute? Sure. LOL Michael is one of the All Time Greats--but an argument can be presented to crack into this myth that he'd "never allow his team to lose"--like when they lost to a mediocre Orlando Magic team upon his return to NBA from suspension....I mean baseball. If Jordan had the torn tendon in his finger like Bryant--we'd hear about the courage it takes for him and everyone would be encouraged to go tear tendons in their fingers.
History will decide Bryant's legacy--but if he were to win 3-4 more titles and have 6/7 with 2 Finals Losses--he won't care what anyone says about him--doubt he does now. Magic Johnson and Larry Bird aren't any less great for losing in Finals and I'd take Magic's Lakers in 1980's over any Bull Title team. I'd take '83 Sixers over Jordan's teams.
History washes away memories for everyone BUT Michael Jordan--at least that is how it seems and it would be wise for NBA to distance itself from that era--which began the corruption/player over team promotions--which were great when "Superman" carried the day.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jun 13, 2008 16:20:06 GMT -5
i don't know what it is, but i get the same sick feeling in my stomach when i see kome as i do when i see me-rod. both have that arrogant look to them that makes me want to put my foot through the tv. when it's going bad for LA, he spends his time calling for the ball and then thowing a hissy fit when he doesn't get it. the entire lakers team is a bunch of women, crying about fouls after every game instead of playing tough on the court. Kobe and A-Rod are the exact opposites when it comes to how they compete. Kobe Bryant's detractors would have to agree this comparison is far off. They both love the limelight-but one guy loves the pressure moments/has proven he will perform in a Playoff situation/will his team to win--and the other has.....well we're still waiting for his signature playoff moment in a positive light. A-Rod is the Tracy McGrady of MLB.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 13, 2008 18:52:35 GMT -5
I disagree with the Bryant Bashing. What team did Jordan ever beat with inferior teammates? Cleveland Cavaliers perhaps. Maybe not. The Bulls teams were better only because of Jordan. Horace Grant and Carthright weren't special. None of the Bulls' big men were special in fact. Kerr, Paxon, BJ and that other spot up shooter (black guy) weren't special. Toni was pretty skilled and tall but woefully inconsistent and passive. Rodman was an impressive one trick pony, but a one trick pony nonetheless. A broken down Ron Harper? Please. So now we'll left with Scottie Pippen who proved, when playing without Jordan, that he would have NEVER been chosen as an all-time Top 50 without being MJ's sidekick and winning six titles as a result. Sorry but this isn't impressive talent at all. This isn't the 80s Lakers, 80s Celtics, 80s Sixers, etc. Jordan was the first, second and third most important reasons why these Bulls were so successful. Sure these Bulls would have not, IMO, beaten the great Lakers or Celtics teams. I have always felt that way. But the Bulls were able to beat championship-caliber teams that were a level or two down. Can Kobe's Lakers say the same? When he was second fiddle to Shaq his Lakers beat their share of third-tier championship-caliber teams too (actually the 2001 Sixers may have been fifth-tier). But when Kobe has been the man his teams have been unable to do even that much. And that's what different between him and Michael. I mean its not as if historians are going to consider Steve Nash's Suns to be great teams considering they never made the NBA Finals. Why couldn’t the Black Cobra or whatever he calls himself get his Lakers past them? Especially that one season in which they were up 3 to 2 or 3 to 1? The one great accomplishment under Kobe’s reign was their recent beating of the Spurs. But that’s not enough to put Kobe anywhere near Jordan. Especially considering the three rings Kobe won he did with a teammate that was voted Finals MVP each time (Shaq). Jordan won six titles and was MVP each time. So as awesome as Kobe was he as still just a superior version of Pippen when the Lakers won those titles. Yes, MJ was at his peak when the league was watered down. But he took advantage of that situation and made the Bulls into a great franchise that never had to sweat out a game 7 in an NBA Finals 9and won every NBA Finals they participated in). You know what? This Celtics team would still lose to those same New York Knicks. The Knicks could out do these Celtics in terms of defense and interior play and control the paint and without that advantage Boston is cooked. That Knicks team was hungry and passionate in a way few teas are today. And by the way even you have pointed out that KG is a bit of a fraud. And we all know Allen had come up terribly short in the past before. They are eventual Hall of fame inductees but combined they inspire less confidence from me than Barkley did by himself. Plus if Boston was so formidable with the three of them how come most experts had the Celtics losing this series? The perception of the team was not all that great and to be truthful the performance of this Boston team in these Finals have been less than stellar. Fortunately for them the performance of the Lakers has been even worse. Again a Jordan-led team beats Boston in Game 1 and Game 4. Jordan never lost those types of games in which the opponents were looking that vulnerable. I thought the point was to win championships. If that’s the case the Lakers made a mistake. If an older Shaq could still win a championship with the less talented Wade in 2006 there is no doubt he, Bryant and the Lakers could have gotten two more titles somewhere between 2004 and now. Frankly, RDF, as old as Shaq is he is still a better presence on the floor than Gasol. He is still formidable enough that the Celtics would probably had to double team him a lot thereby opening up the game more for teammates. But that’s not even the point. The point is Kobe wanted to be the man and did not want to be in Shaq’s shadow anymore. Kobe, the great Jordan mimicker, wanted to prove himself to be Jordan-like and could not do that (in his mind at least) if Shaq was still around. Kobe therefore wanted Shaq gone. Well, he got his wish. Where are the Jordan-like results? If Paul Pierce had tried to guard MJ Jordan would have seen that as a challenge/insult and likely lit Pierce up. Kobe, though, fades. WTF? The handcheck rule is in place now so Kobe has an advantage there that Jordan didn’t. And yet Kobe still can’t produce like MJ. Maybe he should have kept Shaq around. Magic Johnson, as great as he was, never won a title without Kareem. Never. But despite having another great player in Worthy you didn’t see Magic try to push Kareem out the door. He understood the value of a great big man. Kareem was getting killed for being too old the same way Shaq was but Kareem stayed with the Lakers and arguably ended up being the main reason why LA beat Boston in ’85 and a very important factor in the Lakers beating the Celtics in ’87 and the Pistons in ’88. Shaq could have done something like that for the Lakers these past four seasons. But as long as tickets are still selling I guess its alright. I suppose we have to wait until next season when Bynum comes back before Kobe can get that fourth ring but Kobe is an old 29 considering he came directly out of high school. He’s on the bench more because he ain’t a spring chicken anymore. The only ageless guy in the NBA is Iverson He didn’t have to say it. He imitated everything he did. Not arguing that. When I write Bryant could be a top ten all-time NBA player by the time he retires that is not an insult. But he isn’t Jordan. He doesn’t put the fear into the opponent a Jordan did. A very inexperienced Jordan scared arguably the best NBA team of all-time, the ’86 Champion Celtics. I believe the Celtics swept those Bulls but even an all-time great player like Larry Bird who was still gave the type of praise to Jordan that was unheard of from an NBA championship vet to a relative newcomer who hadn’t won anything. From my limited knowledge of basketball hoops the only equivalent was from Wilt to Kareem and even in that case I’m not sure if Wilt was in his prime years as Larry Legend was. Did Kobe at 23 (despite having played in the NBA for about five years at that time) ever get that type of adulation from a champion foe? Don’t think so. Kobe never faced the Bad Boys. Kobe never faced those rough Knicks teams. No one ever came up with the Kobe Rules to try to stop Bryant. They don’t need to because Kobe doesn’t have the will. He stops himself. Which is why he can playa Suns team in a series and during every loss score the vast majority of his points in the first half but be all but invisible in the fourth quarter. Against the Suns! A team that had les use for defense than any team of the last decade….well other than the ‘enver Nuggets. Kobe couldn’t put his team on his back against Nash and the Boys when it truly mattered? I’m glad he won’t care. We won’t care either. Magic and Bird’s teams lost to GREAT teams in the Finals. And they didn’t lose to squads like the Suns in the first round. Gonna have to agree to disagree over this one to some extent. Not doubting Kobe’s greatness. He’s just not at Jordan’s level. And he’s not yet at the level of Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Russell, Shaq, Olajuwan, Duncan, Isiah, etc. But he still has some years left so why are his fans trying to rush it? Maybe with some more Bryant temper-tantrums and with some more former Lakers GMs giving his team talented players for nothing, Kobe and L.A. will amass enough talent to get themselves over the hump and get Kobe elevated to that tier of greatness. Until then we’ll have to settle for his speeches about bed-wetting during post game interviews.
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