hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Apr 27, 2008 3:56:36 GMT -5
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hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,652
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Apr 27, 2008 12:59:31 GMT -5
New info added; details aren't pretty.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 27, 2008 15:45:38 GMT -5
I was wondering when something like this would happen.
As hopelessly ineffective as the student guard program is (there's no way you're going to get all students to follow a slightly cumbersome set of procedures about dorm entry if the only person enforcing it is a fellow student with 0 power to do anything), student guards at least have a pretty good idea of who belongs in a place and who doesn't. Securitas is an embarassment and to call them "professional security guards" is an insult to the profession.
Rocky would like to turn the entire campus into Fort Georgetown, which is neither practical nor desirable on a college campus. Fortunately, he doesn't have the funding to do this. UNfortunately, he may not have the funds to institute a security regime that's actually effective.
Btw, hoyals, am I right in thinking that you were recently elected EiC of The Hoya? If so, congrats!
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hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,652
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Apr 27, 2008 16:11:49 GMT -5
I was wondering when something like this would happen. As hopelessly ineffective as the student guard program is (there's no way you're going to get all students to follow a slightly cumbersome set of procedures about dorm entry if the only person enforcing it is a fellow student with 0 power to do anything), student guards at least have a pretty good idea of who belongs in a place and who doesn't. Securitas is an embarassment and to call them "professional security guards" is an insult to the profession. Rocky would like to turn the entire campus into Fort Georgetown, which is neither practical nor desirable on a college campus. Fortunately, he doesn't have the funding to do this. UNfortunately, he may not have the funds to institute a security regime that's actually effective. Btw, hoyals, am I right in thinking that you were recently elected EiC of The Hoya? If so, congrats! That is me. Thanks very much. |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 27, 2008 16:35:09 GMT -5
A disgusting development. This may also be partly an issue of LXR itself (in addition to the apparent security guard issue). LXR is right on the perimeter of campus. There isn't the same security perimeter that you have at a Copley Hall with the gates and guard station, and the DOPS/DPS division of responsibility and area coverage is not all that clear.
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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 27, 2008 17:10:27 GMT -5
"At the meeting, DelMonaco declined to comment on the nature of the ongoing investigation but noted that five MPD cars responded when he arrived at the scene approximately 40 minutes after a 911 call was placed to MPD. He said the university is working closely with MPD, which he said has taken the lead in the investigation, to respond to concerns and insure campus safety."
Does this mean that it took MPD 40 minutes to respond or that there were 5 cars when Rocky arrived 40 minutes later?? B/c if it took Metro 40 minutes...WOW. And I'm kind of annoyed it took Rocky 40 minutes. Where does he live? Alexandria?
And finally, what is he trying to do that makes it Fort Georgetown? I really don't know b/c I don't live on Main Campus. Honestly, at this point, Fort Georgetown sounds like a good idea, but what are the details before I say that I support them?
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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 27, 2008 17:37:07 GMT -5
Also, whatever happened to last year's plan to greatly expand security cameras around campus? Students complained b/c most students are short-cited and think that the cameras would be used to bust drinking, but in reality, campus needs them BADLY.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 27, 2008 17:59:36 GMT -5
I can't really offer any details, sorry (the info I'm going on was related to me in confidence). But it's basically what one would expect from a career Secret Service agent who's charged with security at a location.
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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 27, 2008 18:04:34 GMT -5
I can't really offer any details, sorry (the info I'm going on was related to me in confidence). But it's basically what one would expect from a career Secret Service agent who's charged with security at a location. Without being privy to those details, then...I almost think maybe it's not the worst idea. As long as it (1) doesn't intrude on typical daily life and (2) doesn't turn into party-busting and anti-drinking nonsense, then I'm all for it. I guess the problem is that anything that could secure campus from outsiders and violent predators could ALSO be used to crush parties and harass students. So of course, there will be student backlash against the things that IF IMPLEMENTED CORRECTLY could protect campus. |
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Apr 27, 2008 18:35:13 GMT -5
may also be partly an issue of LXR itself...LXR is right on the perimeter of campus. How do we know this wasn't a Georgetown student with legitimate access to LXR? Whoever it was, it sounds as if this was a terrible and stupid attack. My thoughts go out to the victim. |
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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 27, 2008 19:04:01 GMT -5
may also be partly an issue of LXR itself...LXR is right on the perimeter of campus. How do we know this wasn't a Georgetown student with legitimate access to LXR? Whoever it was, it sounds as if this was a terrible and stupid attack. My thoughts go out to the victim. I'm pretty sure it's a rational assumption supported by all sorts of history and statistics that it is more likely a sexual assault at gun point was committed by a non-Georgetown student. The odds are much better that someone w/ a gun is not a Georgetown student than that he is. There's PC and then there's willfully turning away from common sense conclusions. Agree though, that it is extremely senseless and scary. And don't worry about the lack of resources to increase security to an acceptable level--the LGBTQ Resource Center is ON ITS WAY! It really seems like an incredible waste of time and money when the doors aren't safe for anyone, much less the narrower LGBTQ community. www.thehoya.com/node/16021#comment-2630 |
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Apr 27, 2008 20:25:27 GMT -5
There's PC and then there's willfully turning away from common sense conclusions. "Common sense conclusions" = jumping to conclusions before facts are established? Since you have to have an ID to get in, AND there is a paid security company guarding LXR, it's certainly conceivable that the assailant could be someone with access. I did not make my post to be "PC." I made it because we should know more about this incident before throwing the Securitas people under the bus and launching into a conversation about security at LXR. I am not sure how that has anything whatsoever to do with political correctness. |
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FewFAC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by FewFAC on Apr 27, 2008 20:54:57 GMT -5
I don't know if the article linked is the same one I read a couple of hours ago, but there seemed to be a litany of access points for those without ID that were known.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 27, 2008 22:15:35 GMT -5
may also be partly an issue of LXR itself...LXR is right on the perimeter of campus. How do we know this wasn't a Georgetown student with legitimate access to LXR? Whoever it was, it sounds as if this was a terrible and stupid attack. My thoughts go out to the victim. My point there, Austin, was more general and was not intended to be directed at this particular event necessarily. Nonetheless, there's nothing stopping even a GU student from making such an attack in LXR and fleeing east, north, or south, where the DPS/MPD Black Hole exists. LXR remains an easy target for students and non-students alike. |
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afirth
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by afirth on Apr 28, 2008 8:46:11 GMT -5
I was wondering when something like this would happen. As hopelessly ineffective as the student guard program is (there's no way you're going to get all students to follow a slightly cumbersome set of procedures about dorm entry if the only person enforcing it is a fellow student with 0 power to do anything), I am a student guard as well, and this is certainly the case. I almost hate asking students to swipe their GoCards when they try to run through the entrance; most students who don't swipe simply walk past you and ignore you. People even flip me off as they walk by. There's no way to enforce people, save getting up from behind the guard desk and physically tracking them down and making them go back and swipe. Students never feel like they should have to take orders from another student. But even this is part of a larger problem - the restrictions on students entering dorms other than their own between 10 pm and 8 am. Between these hours, students can only swipe into residence halls that they live in (i.e. someone who lives in McCarthy will no longer have a functioning GoCard to get into VCE). This results in each student having to be signed in by another student before they can get into the dorm. The University supposedly does this for "safety" reasons but it actually ends up creating more problems. Students don't want to deal with the hassle of waiting in line to sign in their friend at the student guard desk (yes, on Friday and Saturday nights, there actually can be a legitimate wait to do this), so they just end up running past the guard desk saying "sorry, my GoCard doesn't work here." However, if ALL students' GoCards worked at ALL dorms at ALL times, people wouldn't be trying to sneak in or run past the desk without having to sign in. Unfortunately, student guards who work 10-midnight, and the other security guards who work midnight-8 am, often get frustrated with this tedious process, and just stop signing everyone in. Which makes it very easy to imagine a scenario in which you have a non-student running past the guard desk along with other students. Any stranger who hovered around a dorm long enough would learn that all he had to say was "Sorry, I forgot my GoCard" in order to get into the building. Basically, the University spends so much time trying to make it difficult for students to get into different dorms at night (for what? to prevent cohabitation? yes, THAT should be the priority), which results in students trying to sneak in their friends or just ignore the student guard so they don't have to deal with signing someone in every time. In this process, a random person can easily walk by. If the University would simply allow anyone with a GoCard to get into a building, and not have to be signed in, then it would be clear that the only person trying to run past a security guard would be someone who was not a student and clearly didn't belong there. |
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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 28, 2008 9:07:08 GMT -5
Ah a common sense approach from Afirth...it's clear that the University will NEVER listen to you.
Also, I'm curious if there's any difference b/t main campus and Law Center DPS officers. I have noticed a DISTINCT rise in quality over here. That may just be it's a better job b/c everyone here is a little older and so the officers don't get treated like . But they're in place. They demand Go Cards. They're awake.
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sead43
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 796
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Post by sead43 on Apr 28, 2008 15:30:05 GMT -5
afirthionado is right. allowing all students access to all dorms no matter what time of day it is makes sense. the current policy makes very little sense, and, as she said, creates more security problems than it prevents.
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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 28, 2008 15:51:43 GMT -5
Right now, SAC, the Corp, and any other student group w/ available funds should pool money and immediately contact Rocca, DeGioia, and Olson and say that TOMORROW, we will have someone here to inspect campus and begin giving quotes and estimates for campus-wide cameras. They want to put the onus on students, let's see students take the lead. It'll be a huge blackeye to the university if they force students to take on such a task, but at least it will get done.
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theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by theexorcist on Apr 28, 2008 16:18:50 GMT -5
Right now, SAC, the Corp, and any other student group w/ available funds should pool money and immediately contact Rocca, DeGioia, and Olson and say that TOMORROW, we will have someone here to inspect campus and begin giving quotes and estimates for campus-wide cameras. They want to put the onus on students, let's see students take the lead. It'll be a huge blackeye to the university if they force students to take on such a task, but at least it will get done. This is ten years out of date, but my recollection is that student organization money has to be used for purposes specific to the group. The exception is the senior class gift or an alum donation. And cameras are kind of worthless. Determining what's important and worthy of an alarm and what's not is very, very difficult. So you're back to cameras just recording things, which have to be reviewed later (and reviewing lots of cameras quickly drops effectiveness of seeing anything - after about ten minutes, you're toast). In essence, what you're doing is creating a deterrent based upon the idea that, after a crime takes place, you'll be able to identify the assailant. This doesn't always happen. London has lots and lots of cameras, but still has crime. And they have a much greater budget than Georgetown. |
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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 28, 2008 16:29:57 GMT -5
Yeah but how many of these things involve cars pulling up to a student on the street? At least in my day, it was a lot. So cameras on the corners are getting license plates. We could see if students were letting people in who shouldn't be, and we could see which security officers aren't functioning. THEN, any assailant actually identified after the fact would be even better.
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