Hoya Blue criticized in The Hoya today

[afirth]

what else is new.

www.thehoya.com/node/15887

"Nothing about membership in Hoya Blue, or one’s rank within it, should justify special privileges. This includes some members’ comparatively easy access to NCAA tickets, as well as their exemption from the “lottery” that was supposed to decide which fans got those limited-edition, Hoya-themed Nike shoes. (As a friend of a number of sneaker enthusiasts, I found this slight particularly insulting.)

We are all Georgetown fans, whether we’re in the group or not. Once the right to fandom is stratified, once the self-proclaimed stewards of fandom start taking themselves too seriously, the fans stop being real fans. And Hoya Blue stops being the open-arms fan group it’s supposed to be."

[strummer8526]

100% right.

I don't know what Hoya Blue necessarily has done that runs against this "we're all equal" theory. But any time HB gets privileges, I think it's wrong. If they got sneakers w/out the lottery, that's crap.

[TBird41]

Apr 15, 2008 14:23:54 GMT -5 strummer8526 said:

100% right.

I don't know what Hoya Blue necessarily has done that runs against this "we're all equal" theory. But any time HB gets privileges, I think it's wrong. If they got sneakers w/out the lottery, that's crap.

The incentives are a very good way to get people involved in /attend the non basketball sports and to motivate them to do volunteer/promoting things. And it's not like you have to do anything to join Hoya Blue except show up.

I don't know about the shoe thing (or the first four rows being taken over by HB people getting in early--there aren't that many early passes), but lots of schools use getting first crack at tournament tickets as an incentive (lots . It's a good one, and it's a good way to reward students who support the entire Athletic Department. And again, all you need to do is show up at Hoya Blue events (aka Gtown games) and meetings.

[afirth]

The article is not actually 100% right.

Especially with the part about access to NCAA tickets - in no way did Hoya Blue get priority when it came to tickets. In fact, there were EXTRAS to the first-round in Raleigh - the Athletic Department didn't even sell all of the available tickets. Trust me, anyone who wanted to go to Raleigh could have gone down to McDonough, gotten in line, and done so.

In the BET, 15 tickets were given away at a raffle at women's basketball games, and another 15-20 were given to the first students who showed up to the camp out in McDonough (which was publicized in an email sent to ALL students). Hoya Blue did not get "comparatively easy" access to NCAA tickets.

There are a few other factually incorrect things with this article that I will mention when I get back from class.

[LizziebethHoya]

I don't want to get into each little incorrect detail in the article (I'll let someone else take this burden) except to say this:

The article was written off of a "rumor" or two. HB gets shoes. HB gets tickets. None of this was substantiated. The author knows many of us in Hoya Blue, has asked us for quotes for his articles all of the time, but failed to check for the validity of any of his sources. It's just, as usual, bad journalism from the Hoya.

[vcjack]

Thank God, this offseason was getting boring

Actually I think it's a pretty tame article, and for practical reasons correct. Or at the very least the strummer's response represents the popular opinion of our group. Yes there are some factually incorrect details* but its true that we have an image problem and the perception that we are a self serving clique is as good as a reality unless we change that perception. Next year we have to fight the popular idea

*there was never supposed to be a lottery for shoes in the first place, about half of the shoes given out were preselected and most of those were not HB people. it was supposed to be a promotion for the Louisville game that the first x number of people who signed up for a pre game banquet got the shoes and the AD told us to find those people. However the banquet got postponed so the promotion angle was moot so the remaining shoes were raffled off

[strummer8526]

What has Hoya Blue done that has successfully increased attendance at any non-basketball event? (Serious question...)

[The Stig]

You been to a soccer game lately?

[hoyatables]

Apr 15, 2008 15:35:51 GMT -5 The Stig said:

You been to a soccer game lately?

If his answer is no, does that prove his own point?

[strummer8526]

Apr 15, 2008 15:46:37 GMT -5 hoyatables said:

Apr 15, 2008 15:35:51 GMT -5 The Stig said:

You been to a soccer game lately?

If his answer is no, does that prove his own point?

I'm not a current student, so no. I didn't go '03-'07, if that counts. Has there been a marketing push since I left?

[TBird41]

Apr 15, 2008 15:57:11 GMT -5 strummer8526 said:

Apr 15, 2008 15:46:37 GMT -5 hoyatables said:

If his answer is no, does that prove his own point?

I'm not a current student, so no. I didn't go '03-'07, if that counts. Has there been a marketing push since I left?

There was a marketing push while you were there, starting in 2005-2006 and it's been paying dividends since it started.

You missed some good times your junior year, including the crowd getting a warning after completely taking the American star out of the game during a Gtown win, and the Nova ass't coach challenging the students to come down one at a time and fight him. And it got even better during the next year with some key freshmen additions

[theexorcist]

The issue that would appear to come to me is that Hoya Blue is a student group. It's not the official arm of the athletic department. There's a big difference. If it were the latter, you'd be kowtowing to Bernard Muir, who is an employee of the university who runs athletics. He makes a fair amount of money and can squash you like a bug.

If it's the former, your president could be someone who became infamous during freshman orientation for the Nerf football incident and who primarily won an election based on a cheeky slogan (all of this is theoretical, in case you're curious).

What's the difference? Muir can decree something like the Hoya Forevers or The IIIrd Circle of Hell as the "official" student fan group that the athletic department runs. BET tickets can be doled out on the basis of showing up shirtless to football games or running canned food drives or whatever. You can complain, but it's done by the Faceless Athletic Department.

Compare this to a student group which you think doesn't like you and doesn't invite you to its parties. It's not run by Muir, but by the person who shows up late at least once a week to the Shakespeare class you share together, whose questions annoy everyone, and who keeps on seeming to hit on the person you've got a crush on.

What's more, you can't form "Hoya Gray". There's already a student support group on campus. It's either Hoya Blue or nothing.

I hate the first student groups. With a passion. I think that they're automatons and that their slogans are insipid. Further, I think that the most learning I ever received at GU came from my involvement in student groups (by the way if you want to be invaluable to employers, learn how to run a conference and do it well).

But those second student groups come with a bullseye. Anything that's done is analyzed because it was done by peers, not by the administration. And with it comes all those politics (see comments in other locales on the despised Duke line monitors).

There's no way to get read of that scrutiny, nor should there be. To combat it, Hoya Blue needs to consistently analyze what it does and why.

[rchoya06]

I was at soccer games this year, I would say about five people actually came to games consistently. And I've been to lacrosse games and I think there was more enthusiasm shown at the Masters than Hoya Blue gets going for either nationally ranked lacrosse team. The author makes a good point. Hoya Blue does some good things but they get far too much credit.
I commend them on what they did for the baseball team last weekend, that was a cool thing, but I would hardly say they increase attendance at other sports. And you proved it when you made soccer your talking point because
1) there werent a lot of people at soccer games
2) soccer should be pretty easy to get international students to go to since it probably is the sport they grew up liking

[vcjack]

Apr 15, 2008 17:07:25 GMT -5 rchoya06 said:

I was at soccer games this year, I would say about five people actually came to games consistently. And I've been to lacrosse games and I think there was more enthusiasm shown at the Masters than Hoya Blue gets going for either nationally ranked lacrosse team. The author makes a good point. Hoya Blue does some good things but they get far too much credit.
I commend them on what they did for the baseball team last weekend, that was a cool thing, but I would hardly say they increase attendance at other sports. And you proved it when you made soccer your talking point because
1) there werent a lot of people at soccer games
2) soccer should be pretty easy to get international students to go to since it probably is the sport they grew up liking

These are some good points, and we shouldn't pretend like every soccer game was an awesome experiance, but the atmosphere at big soccer games (moreso in 06 than in 07) are light years ahead of everything not named men's basketball. You mention the baseball game (so I guess you were on the bus with us), let me say that I was personally disapointed with our turnout, that is just a fraction of what we could potentially do and will do in the future. We also did a football roadtrip to Penn last season and we (tentatively) plan on doing one to Howard in the begining of next season.

Now with lax you have a big headache because as you said we have nationally ranked teams that few students go to. There are three problems that we have to overcome
1. The season overlapps with baskeball season so it divides everyones attention (for example, most of the leadership of HB was in Raleigh during the big Duke win)
2. the Lax programs aren't naturally receptive to crowds or paticularly want big student crowds. They've been difficult to work with in the past
3. Few people who go to Georgetown actually know about or have appreciation for lax as a sport. Hell after 2 years I still don't know most of the rules

Its a challenge that we're going to have to work with and we have a lot of room for improvement, but I think if we try hard enough it could be done

[CTHoya08]

I think it's unfair to say that "few" people at Georgetown know about lacrosse. The problem of scheduling is very real though; it seems like every game is either on a weekday afternoon when everyone is in class, at the same time as a basketball game, or over a vacation.

[vcjack]

Apr 15, 2008 17:24:56 GMT -5 CTHoya08 said:

I think it's unfair to say that "few" people at Georgetown know about lacrosse. The problem of scheduling is very real though; it seems like every game is either on a weekday afternoon when everyone is in class, at the same time as a basketball game, or over a vacation.

Maybe that's just my bias as a midwesterner, but I would guess that the majority of students comming in are not familiar with the sport

[afirth]

Hoya Blue may not have successfully increased attendance at all non-basketball games, but many of the things we do are significant. Providing students with cheap road trips is one thing. Being able to go to Syracuse and have bus, hotel, and ticket for $80 is an amazingly good deal. Anyone who would try to do these things on their own would pay a lot more money, but we subsidize trips from t-shirt sales and other funds, so that the biggest number of students possible can participate in these trips.

The article does raise important issues about the organization, such as the appearance of exclusivity and cliquish-ness of the club. I agree that we often have an image problem and this is something we need to work on, but my problem is less with that and more with the fact that much of the article is based on speculation and rumors. For instance, it's fine if you think the Hoya Dunks promotion was unfair, but that was something Nike contacted the Athletic Department about, not Hoya Blue.

As for saving seats, quite frankly it'd be impossible for us to take up the first four rows of both student sections - there even aren't that many of us! Saving seats for friends is a problem in the student section, but this problem is not unique to Hoya Blue - everyone does it. That doesn't make it okay, but if anyone has a solution for how to solve the problem, save putting a Verizon usher in every row to police people, I'd be happy to hear it.

Finally, it's not as if giving benefits to its members is something that is unique to Hoya Blue either. My friend in GUSA told me that he recently got a "cut the line" pass and didn't have to wait in line for Dip Ball tickets, unlike the rest of the student body, because of his position. The Hoya gives out press passes to sporting events. People who work for the Corp get a 10 percent discount (granted, The Corp is a job, but still), and discounts on the Holiday Gala. People who work for Lecture Fund routinely get automatic tickets to speaker events, while the rest of the student body has to hope they get in through a lottery. I don't begrudge these people for the benefits they receive. The people who work for Lecture Fund are largely responsible for getting awesome people to come speak on our campus, so I don't care if they are rewarded with a few automatic tickets. The Corp puts on the Holiday Gala, so I don't care if their tickets are discounted. Similarly, I don't think it's unfair that the students who dedicate themselves all year to Hoya athletics get a 10 dollar discount on road trips - road trips that WE put on, and that might not exist otherwise. The fact is, most Georgetown organizations routinely provide their active and dedicated members with some benefits – this is certainly not unique to Hoya Blue.

[JimmyHoya]

The whole article seemed out of place, misguided and forced, much like D. Pierce Nixon III's epic essay about Esh.

[hoyaLS05]

Apr 15, 2008 18:10:01 GMT -5 afirth said:

Hoya Blue may not have successfully increased attendance at all non-basketball games, but many of the things we do are significant. Providing students with cheap road trips is one thing. Being able to go to Syracuse and have bus, hotel, and ticket for $80 is an amazingly good deal. Anyone who would try to do these things on their own would pay a lot more money, but we subsidize trips from t-shirt sales and other funds, so that the biggest number of students possible can participate in these trips.

The article does raise important issues about the organization, such as the appearance of exclusivity and cliquish-ness of the club. I agree that we often have an image problem and this is something we need to work on, but my problem is less with that and more with the fact that much of the article is based on speculation and rumors. For instance, it's fine if you think the Hoya Dunks promotion was unfair, but that was something Nike contacted the Athletic Department about, not Hoya Blue.

As for saving seats, quite frankly it'd be impossible for us to take up the first four rows of both student sections - there even aren't that many of us! Saving seats for friends is a problem in the student section, but this problem is not unique to Hoya Blue - everyone does it. That doesn't make it okay, but if anyone has a solution for how to solve the problem, save putting a Verizon usher in every row to police people, I'd be happy to hear it.

Finally, it's not as if giving benefits to its members is something that is unique to Hoya Blue either. My friend in GUSA told me that he recently got a "cut the line" pass and didn't have to wait in line for Dip Ball tickets, unlike the rest of the student body, because of his position. The Hoya gives out press passes to sporting events. People who work for the Corp get a 10 percent discount (granted, The Corp is a job, but still), and discounts on the Holiday Gala. People who work for Lecture Fund routinely get automatic tickets to speaker events, while the rest of the student body has to hope they get in through a lottery. I don't begrudge these people for the benefits they receive. The people who work for Lecture Fund are largely responsible for getting awesome people to come speak on our campus, so I don't care if they are rewarded with a few automatic tickets. The Corp puts on the Holiday Gala, so I don't care if their tickets are discounted. Similarly, I don't think it's unfair that the students who dedicate themselves all year to Hoya athletics get a 10 dollar discount on road trips - road trips that WE put on, and that might not exist otherwise. The fact is, most Georgetown organizations routinely provide their active and dedicated members with some benefits – this is certainly not unique to Hoya Blue.

The basketball team also gives its members really good seats at Verizon Center.

Seriously, I was going to stay out of this one until you tried to make the utterly absurd point that The Hoya gives its members some special benefit by giving them press passes to sporting events. Save for FLHoya, how many of you write about basketball games after you attend them? How many of you take notes during them? Press passes enable Hoya writers to take notes during the event, begin writing their stories during the game, interview the athletes afterwards, and then write a story. Yes, they get to sit close, but they work for it. Should they bring their laptop into the eighth row at Verizon, sit the whole game with it on their lap while everyone else is standing, and pray to god some drunk freshman doesn't spill his beer on their Dell? They also surrender their right to cheer when they take the press pass.

Press passes are necessary for these kids to do their job. They are not a 'benefit.'

[afirth]

You're just further proving my point, actually. Of course I think Hoya staff writers should get press passes. They do work for them, and they do deserve them.

Similarly, I think that students who work really hard to put on road trips that the entire student body enjoys are entitled to a small discount.