theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Apr 16, 2008 8:43:47 GMT -5
That is the idea, however there is a perception that HB is not open to all 'caus its a clique and that discourages some from official participation. Changing that perception is the #1 priority for next year, right now we are just trying to finish up this year and get some asses in the seats for the lax senior days Yes, Hoya Blue is a clique. But so is every other student organization on this campus, most of which you have to go through an application/interview process to gain entry. The only thing we require applications for is if you want to take on a leadership role. Everyone is welcome to come to games. Everyone is welcome to come to our parties. Everyone is welcome to come to our meetings. You can't say this for a majority of clubs on this campus. Yes, but the majority of clubs on campus aren't associated with events that get shown on CBS and ESPN (unless ESPN8 "The Ocho" is broadcasting Model UN and Quiz Bowl on Tuesday mornings between 1 and 3, and if they are, sell your Disney stock). I said this before. The veracity of any of the allegations doesn't matter. The facts that this is a student club and that they're associated with something popular makes it a big honking target. Hoya Blue needs to be aware of this and act accordingly, possibly by both bending over backwards to be inclusive. They also have to figure out how to respond to attacks that they're a favoritist clique whose club locker holds a never-ending supply of front-row seats at every major arena in the country, all-expenses paid trips to every Georgetown away game, and Patrick Ewing game-worn jerseys. If they're successful, then they'll probably have jobs at the State Department's public diplomacy bureau waiting for them.
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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 16, 2008 9:03:11 GMT -5
I think what HB needs to communicate and convince people of is WHAT IT DOES. And saying "a bunch of us go to sporting events" is not enough, because that's your choice. If you enjoy going to sporting events and being a fan, calling it a club and getting privileges is absurd. Student groups get away w/ some periods of exclusivity and some perks b/c what they do is well defined AND THERE IS DEMAND FOR IT.
Don't work at the Credit Union? Not shocking they don't invite you to parties. Don't write for the Hoya? That's why would you don't get any benefit from that group.
The problem w/ HB is that I don't know what the question would be there other than "Not a member of HB?" OK....but what does that mean? Is the "work" just going to sporting events, really? I think that the more HB can convey WHAT IT IS DOING, the more people will accept the fact that there is work being put into it. And when there's work being done, people who aren't doing that work can understand why they're excluded from certain things. Students as a whole value their basketball tickets more than they value having fans at obscure sporting events. Being the people at those semi-unpopular sporting events can't justify a whole lot of perks in the average student's mind.
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GUHoya07
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Post by GUHoya07 on Apr 16, 2008 9:46:02 GMT -5
I think this is a pretty good argument, but its not exactly easy to convince people WHAT IT DOES. Should the group write articles in The Hoya discussing everything they do on a daily basis? You just dont normally hear people or groups having to explain themselves like they've done something wrong.
The work is a lot more than just going to sporting events. Thats what it may amount to for some of the much less involved members, but there is a ton of organization, planning, promoting and so on for the executive board and highly involved volunteers. Furthermore, you may not think getting people out to "semi-unpopular" sporting events is important but its very important to the athletic department and all of those athletes who also represent Georgetown just like the basketball team. It's also far from the truth that we have a great time going to all of the smaller sporting events. They require a good amount of work to even get a group of 50 or so to and then we often had to endure long, boring games where we get killed. There are plenty of things most of us would have rather been doing.
However, those Georgetown athletes still deserve support from time to time and this is very important to the athletic department. The people attending these games are generally some of the most dedicated Georgetown fans and I don't see why anyone would be upset about them getting a few rewards for their year long support. This happens at schools all over the country and works well. You don't even have to be a so-called member of Hoya Blue to get involved with this. Also, being a member just involves giving us your email address so that we can inform you of everything thats going on, including parties. I dont have any idea how that is cliquey. Maybe it became more cliquey this year, but that was certainly not the case last year.
People only complain because they are ignorant and selfish. Hoya Blue gets practically no perks, but when they do get some priority or something like that everyone gets all worked up about it as if they are being cheated out of something.
To be honest, I think if any of you had been involved with Hoya Blue over the past couple of years and seen how much work went into it you would definitely not think we got much of anything. It's all about perception though, and clearly Hoya Blue needs to keep working to change the way they are viewed by some.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Apr 16, 2008 10:06:18 GMT -5
C'mon Strummer -The cliquiness (is that a word? probably not) argument has some merit apparently, and based on some of the responses here, it seems like the members know that and want to do something about it.
But you don't know what Hoya Blue does? You also seem to be intentionally insulting people with your "just going to sporting events" routine. I don't personally know a single person from Hoya Blue (past or present), and I haven't been on campus for a number of years, but it's not too hard to see what they do just from participating on this board.
Seems you either have an axe to grind here or you are just arguing for argument's sake.
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Post by dajuan on Apr 16, 2008 17:14:44 GMT -5
C'mon Strummer -The cliquiness (is that a word? probably not) argument has some merit apparently, and based on some of the responses here, it seems like the members know that and want to do something about it. But you don't know what Hoya Blue does? You also seem to be intentionally insulting people with your "just going to sporting events" routine. I don't personally know a single person from Hoya Blue (past or present), and I haven't been on campus for a number of years, but it's not too hard to see what they do just from participating on this board. Seems you either have an axe to grind here or you are just arguing for argument's sake. I graduated from Georgetown in 2006 and I've been quite close to the University community since, and I can say that I truly do not know what Hoya Bleu does aside from the Cheer sheets. I don't mean to insult anyone, but I just don't know why the services they provide should be rewarded with anything other than a pat on the back and the recognition that what they are doing helps the University and their fellow Hoyas. Yes, there is a reason Hoya Bleu was formed when it was - a dark period for Hoya basketball. At that moment, an incentive was apparently necessary to get people excited about Georgetown sports - namely basketball. But I think that window of necessity has expired. I'm not saying Hoya Bleu should disband, I'm merely saying that its members should receive no special treatment whatsoever. If they want to have front row seats, they should show up early and prove that they deserve them. If they want tickets to the BET, they should camp out earliest. To paraphrase a famous quotation 'Leading by example is not one way to lead, it is the only way.'
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Apr 16, 2008 18:32:45 GMT -5
If they want to have front row seats, they should show up early and prove that they deserve them. If they want tickets to the BET, they should camp out earliest. A lot of Hoya Blue members do just that on a regular basis. The problem is that when some people arrive at the game later and see Hoya Blue people in the front rows, they assume that Hoya Blue just saved the good seats for themselves. The same is true for BET tickets. There was a raffle at several womens' games for passes to jump the line. They were publicly announced at the mens' games. Hoya Blue people ended up being most of the ones who got the passes, since almost everybody who bothers showing up at womens' games is in Hoya Blue. But the rumor spread that Hoya Blue was jumping the line as a perk from the club. The same goes for NCAA tickets. Hoya Blue people got most of the tickets, since we were the ones who went to the ticket booth at the designated time and bought them. But people still assumed that we'd only gotten the tickets because it was some perk from Hoya Blue. Hoya Blue does get discounts for road trips. Why? Because we organize and pay for the road trips, then sell the spots at discounted prices to the student body so more people can come. We lose money even if the trip sells out. Because we organize the trip and take the financial hit, we think we should be allowed to give even bigger discounts to our most dedicated members. The staff passes are given out so we can put out the cheer sheets before the game and set up the Hoya Blue table. It sounds like a small job, but it takes a long time and we need all the people we can get. A few other things Hoya Blue does: designs the We Are Georgetown shirt, buys the shirts and sweatshirts, sells season tickets to the student body, puts up flyers for games, makes the cheer sheets, leads most of the cheers, organizes gamewatches, and in general tries to push people to go to games.
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mchoya
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Post by mchoya on Apr 16, 2008 18:37:02 GMT -5
I'm not saying Hoya Bleu should disband, I'm merely saying that its members should receive no special treatment whatsoever. If they want to have front row seats, they should show up early and prove that they deserve them. If they want tickets to the BET, they should camp out earliest. I was able to consistently get a front-row/second-row seat because I woke up for games at about 8:30 AM on a Saturday morning. I got a BET ticket because the athletic department raffled tickets off at women's games (I would have waited in line for it otherwise). I got a NCAA ticket because I went after my class and stood in line for one. I don't see where the criticism lies. If it's with the fact that a limited number of people get staff passes and sit in the front row, well, those people do make the cheer sheets-- and put them out when no one is in the stadium. It's not exactly back-breaking work, but if the passes go out to a limited amount of people, let them take the seat they want. It's not as if there is a HB contingent locking down the good seats in the Verizon Center like the article would have you believe.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 16, 2008 22:44:53 GMT -5
Well, if nothing else I am glad to see that we are still a hot topic of conversation.
My feelings on it? I'll quote John Thompson II, who was quoting W.E.B. Du Bois:
"Our whole lives are spent answering false accusations--I'M not going to spend 2 minutes doing it."[/i][/size]
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Apr 17, 2008 12:03:41 GMT -5
Hoya Blue is a target of criticism and always will be. Its a student group with large membership that tries to be transparent, but like all student groups never really will be 100% transparent. They are running an extra-curricular activity, not a government. I'm inclined to cut them a break. There is probably a lack of transparency and some benefit-taking by the editorial boards of the Hoya and the Voice. Will the members of GPB's executive board be more likely to rub elbows with Common this weekend? Yes. Do I begrudge them that privilege? No, they put a lot more work into putting the concert together than I did. The same is true of Hoya Blue - they spend a lot of time thinking of ways to increase student attendance at sporting events, go to meetings with SAC, student programming, and the athletic department. And when they aren't doing that, they're flyering. Is every marketing attempt as successful as something from Madison Avenue? No. But again its a club. One that people put way too much scrutiny on in my mind.
To the Hoya - ligthen up. If you have nothing better to do than worry that Gugs shirts have some psychological effect of furthering sexualizing Georgetown women and the benefits distribution policies of Hoya Blue, then you really don't have enough to worry about.
To Hoya Blue - all you can do when met with criticism is make good faith efforts to improve on the valid points raised by the article, you can't be expected to change some things that are inherent in a club being run by college students who are not majoring in sports marketing.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Apr 17, 2008 16:05:31 GMT -5
Agree with St. Pete on all points.
Some of you are a bunch of cry babies who act like your time is more important than that of the people you're criticizing.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 18, 2008 13:48:08 GMT -5
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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 18, 2008 16:04:21 GMT -5
Having been on the Ed Board for two terms, I can say that at times, there have been editors who approach the whole opinion section with the mentality of: What don't we like? or What do we want to complain about?
Really, it can at times degenerate into fairly petty squabbles over pretty micro issues. That's why I think an independent Hoya could do a whole lot more to really challenge the University on fundamental matters, attack certain administrators or offices personally, and try to demand accountability. It would be a lot more useful and informative than "I don't like..." pieces. Unfortunately, the best piece like that in my 5 years of Hoya readership was met w/ mixed reactions and, to some extent, fear of retribution.
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Post by hoyafever on Apr 20, 2008 22:28:19 GMT -5
I have to say that is very nice to see vcjack, as a member of Hoya Blue, take the mindset he is taking. I think many people supporting Hoya Blue, although they have valid points, are missing the point. Regardless of whether the information is factually accurate in the article, the fact of the matter is that most students who are big basketball fans but not Hoya Blue members have at least a small axe to grind with Hoya Blue. This may be baseless. If Hoya Blue wants to improve as a presence on campus, they must work to change students' perception of them.
Here are some possible suggestions:
1. Consider having one or two non-Hoya Blue front row games. Take the 5th row or something. Market this promotion. Students would love it. 2. Create a lottery so that a few non-athletics/non Hoya Blue/non Pep Band students can go to the Basketball Banquet. 3. I don't know if this already happens, but either create or make a much bigger marketing push for a campus wide competition for the slogan on the back of the WAG shirts. I'm sure you would get some hilariously inappropriate ones but also some pretty baller ones as well. 4. Do comparison marketing for the road trips. Figure out how much travel, hotel, and comparable tickets would cost and market that next to your price. Students would directly see how you are helping them out.
Want my opinion? I have no problem with Hoya Blue. I get to all the games hours early and snag low level seats by the pep band-side tunnel every time. I just wish I got those sweet shoes my Pep Band roommates got.
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RusskyHoya
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In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 20, 2008 22:49:49 GMT -5
Thanks for your suggestions. Here's my thoughts:
1. Consider having one or two non-Hoya Blue front row games. Take the 5th row or something. Market this promotion. Students would love it.
We don't "take" rows. As noted in out letter to The Hoya, Hoya Blue gets 8 staff passes. The front rows are much much bigger than that, especially on the non-band side. Most of the people in the front rows are already non-Hoya Blue people. Having the 8 people who got into the arena early move back a few rows would scarcely even be noticeable.
Moreover, from an admittedly insider-ish point of view, I think students would definitely NOT love this if it were made a promotion. They would simply grouch about why it is that Hoya Blue people get to be in the front row at all the other games. Granted, that may already be the common perception, but I don't see how it's a net positive for us to draw even greater attention to this. To some extent, people are always going to focus their ire on those who who they feel are unfairly privileged, regardless of justifications.
2. Create a lottery so that a few non-athletics/non Hoya Blue/non Pep Band students can go to the Basketball Banquet.
Students can attend the basketball banquet as it is, assuming they are members of the Hoop Club. Now, if you're suggesting that Hoya Blue should raffle off some of its sponsored tickets to the banquet, that's another story, but there is nothing to stop a student from going as it is now.
3. I don't know if this already happens, but either create or make a much bigger marketing push for a campus wide competition for the slogan on the back of the WAG shirts. I'm sure you would get some hilariously inappropriate ones but also some pretty baller ones as well.
Agreed completely. Though it should be noted that there are others (including JTIII) who have veto power over the decision.
4. Do comparison marketing for the road trips. Figure out how much travel, hotel, and comparable tickets would cost and market that next to your price. Students would directly see how you are helping them out.
Good idea, although it should also be pointed out that the biggest benefit isn't just the cost savings, which for a lot of students at Georgetown isn't that big of a concern to begin with. Just as big of a benefit imo, is the time savings - instead of having to work out all these details, it's all done for you. That is a bit harder to put into numbers.
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Apr 21, 2008 8:17:44 GMT -5
2. Create a lottery so that a few non-athletics/non Hoya Blue/non Pep Band students can go to the Basketball Banquet.Students can attend the basketball banquet as it is, assuming they are members of the Hoop Club. Now, if you're suggesting that Hoya Blue should raffle off some of its sponsored tickets to the banquet, that's another story, but there is nothing to stop a student from going as it is now. The only thing Hoya Blue would be able to do is buy some tickets with our own money and raffle them off. But that's a pretty good idea. (It's not possible to raffle off sponsored tickets, because they are just that, sponsored). Hoyafever, you did point out that you are a big basketball fan but not an active member of Hoya Blue and that people like you "have a small axe to grind" with Hoya Blue. Because we are an organization that supports all sports, we do lose a lot of people who would be really active in Hoya Blue if we just supported basketball. While we are never going to lose our focus in supporting all sports, do you have any suggestions as to what Hoya Blue could do to further actively engage basketball-only supporters?
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Apr 21, 2008 19:37:27 GMT -5
Nice job, Paul Campbell. Nice to see the tradition of the Communications Officer sending letters to the editor of The Hoya defending Hoya Blue and/or himself has not gone by the wayside.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Apr 21, 2008 21:34:24 GMT -5
I have to say that is very nice to see vcjack, as a member of Hoya Blue, take the mindset he is taking. I think many people supporting Hoya Blue, although they have valid points, are missing the point. Regardless of whether the information is factually accurate in the article, the fact of the matter is that most students who are big basketball fans but not Hoya Blue members have at least a small axe to grind with Hoya Blue. This may be baseless. If Hoya Blue wants to improve as a presence on campus, they must work to change students' perception of them. Here are some possible suggestions: 1. Consider having one or two non-Hoya Blue front row games. Take the 5th row or something. Market this promotion. Students would love it. 2. Create a lottery so that a few non-athletics/non Hoya Blue/non Pep Band students can go to the Basketball Banquet. 3. I don't know if this already happens, but either create or make a much bigger marketing push for a campus wide competition for the slogan on the back of the WAG shirts. I'm sure you would get some hilariously inappropriate ones but also some pretty baller ones as well. 4. Do comparison marketing for the road trips. Figure out how much travel, hotel, and comparable tickets would cost and market that next to your price. Students would directly see how you are helping them out. Want my opinion? I have no problem with Hoya Blue. I get to all the games hours early and snag low level seats by the pep band-side tunnel every time. I just wish I got those sweet shoes my Pep Band roommates got. I like those suggestions. As others have said, some of them may not be necessary, but you're thinking the right way. We'd love to have you at some of our meetings (Tuesdays, 9PM, ICC first floor).
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