|
|
Post by hoyasaxa3255 on Mar 14, 2008 9:53:01 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by strummer8526 on Mar 14, 2008 12:24:04 GMT -5
As I just posted in my gmail away message, is it politically incorrect to [criticize] the Pope? Because if it is, that's too bad. Let's line up the people who rebuke any religion that wants to deal with the Vagina Monologues before major global atrocities.
To your pre-edited comments: yes, it is.--Admin
|
|
EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
|
Post by EasyEd on Mar 14, 2008 13:16:07 GMT -5
I hope the Pope comes out loudly and clearly that Catholic univerisities should be Catholic.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2008 13:31:27 GMT -5
I mean this in all seriousness, but at the end of the day what can the Pope/Vatican actually "do" to Georgetown and other Catholic institutions it has a problem with?
|
|
DrumsGoBang
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
DrumsGoBang - Bang Bang
Posts: 910
|
Post by DrumsGoBang on Mar 14, 2008 13:41:28 GMT -5
Since when do we have to listen to people in funny white hats? I'm declaring myself super-pope. That means I'm going to wear a larger hat, bright green, and command multiple popes to do my evil...I mean good bidding.
|
|
|
|
Post by fsohoya on Mar 14, 2008 13:54:45 GMT -5
Strummer, that is both tasteless and absurd. The Church deals with atrocities everywhere (Catholic Charities, anyone?) but guess what? It can try to keep its own house in order at the same time.
I don't mind people disagreeing with the Church--I do it all the time--but it sure would be nice if they'd put some thought into it.
|
|
|
|
Post by strummer8526 on Mar 14, 2008 14:02:21 GMT -5
Strummer, that is both tasteless and absurd. The Church deals with atrocities everywhere (Catholic Charities, anyone?) but guess what? It can try to keep its own house in order at the same time. I don't mind people disagreeing with the Church--I do it all the time--but it sure would be nice if they'd put some thought into it. Literally ANY time or effort put into rounding up representatives from 200 schools so the Pope can scold them is absolutely absurd and a waste of time. Sure, the Church does some good, but why spend time pushing around schools when ultimately, there's nothing the church can really DO about it? We have one theologian who questioned Jesus as the path to salvation?! Notre Dame put on the Vagina Monologues?! What precisely is accomplished by the Church going after this (other than the reinforcement of the Church's painfully out of date approach to virtually everything)? |
|
|
|
Post by fsohoya on Mar 14, 2008 15:30:34 GMT -5
Maybe because all those schools call themselves "Roman Catholic," and as, you know, kind of the head of the Roman Catholic Church, the pope's job is to tell those schools when they're out of line. Of course you and the schools may disagree with a lot of what the Church stands for, but don't act shocked or like the pope's wasting his time when he's trying to make 200--200!--Roman Catholic colleges and universities live up to Roman Catholic standards.
|
|
ichirohoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 535
|
Post by ichirohoya on Mar 14, 2008 15:42:39 GMT -5
As a non-catholic who went to Georgetown I'm kinda torn by this. Part of what attracted me to Georgetown was that it has not gone the way of many schools that have turned their backs on religious affiliation. When I came to Georgetown I knew that I was signing up to go to a school that was joined to an institution (The Vatican) with which I wouldn't always agree. I knew what i was getting into and anyone else who shows up at the Hilltop knows what they've signed up for.
That being said, I cannot for the life of me buy the argument that allowing things like Vagina Monologues or having faculty who question dogma somehow compromises Georgetown's Catholicism. Allowing the voicing of unorthodox opinions does not mean that Georgetown is sanctioning behavior which goes against church teaching. Free expression of views which go against the canonical current strikes me as being exactly the sort of thing that folks like Fr. John Courtney Murray, SJ. would have stood up for. The church can and should take a stand on issues that it holds dear, but I don't think it can expect campuses to remain free from dissenting views.
|
|
|
|
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Mar 17, 2008 0:17:15 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying ichiro, but I'd just be careful with the language you are using. Unorthodox to Catholics in a religious sense is heterodox, which is exactly what the Vatican is supposed to fight in its role defending the faith.
That said, there is an inherent tension in being a University and being Catholic at times. The free exchange of ideas can be guided by Catholic philosophy, but it shouldn't be muzzled by it.
|
|
TigerHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,808
|
Post by TigerHoya on Mar 24, 2008 11:17:32 GMT -5
I heard yesterday the Pope plans on telling the heads of Catholic colleges and universities that faculty will be required to take an oath of allegiance to the pope similar to the one priests take when installed as a pastor.
|
|
EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
|
Post by EasyEd on Mar 24, 2008 11:58:51 GMT -5
Some people might be interested in what a real Catholic college does in this regard. Christendom College in Virginia states the following:
All professors are Catholic and ALL of them make an Oath of Fidelity to the Magisterium and a Profession of Faith each year in the presence of the Diocese of Arlington's Bishop Paul Loverde.
|
|
|
|
Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Mar 25, 2008 13:21:52 GMT -5
That certainly is interesting. Are you arguing that to be a preferable situation to the status quo at GU, ed? If so, I'd be interested to hear how you think that would make us a better university, especially given our unique position and role vis-a-vis interfaith dialogue.
|
|
|
|
Post by strummer8526 on Mar 25, 2008 14:02:29 GMT -5
The myriad of ways that such an oath would change GU is staggering. It will never happen, nor should it.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,861
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 25, 2008 20:17:41 GMT -5
That certainly is interesting. Are you arguing that to be a preferable situation to the status quo at GU, ed? If so, I'd be interested to hear how you think that would make us a better university, especially given our unique position and role vis-a-vis interfaith dialogue. "Unique position"? GU has no civic or ecclesial mandate in this matter. The public perception is that Georgetown wants all the benefits of Catholicism without the commitments required of it, which gets it into trouble. If Georgetown wants to sell itself as a Roman Catholic institution, it ought to work within the rules in place for schools who want the designation. |
|
hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,604
|
Post by hoyatables on Mar 25, 2008 22:42:38 GMT -5
Just a comment on what is admittedly a more complex issue than what I will suggest here: didn't Father John Courtney Murray (who ichiro rightly invokes here) put all of these debates to rest decades ago?
|
|
|
|
Post by saxasauraus on Mar 26, 2008 7:55:03 GMT -5
Who is Christendom College? Exactly.
Georgetown's cultural and spiritual pluralism creates the types of discussions which make it a world-class university. If you want a school of 6,000 cloistered and sexless catholic androids humming with chants and devoid of any real debate...then go to a different school.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,861
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 26, 2008 8:04:25 GMT -5
If you want a school of 6,000 cloistered and sexless catholic androids humming with chants and devoid of any real debate...then go to a different school. That 's an excessively weak argument. No one on this thread is arguing for Steubenville or Christendom. But I also reject the idea that GU is some of intellectual cauldron of interreligious dialogue, either. There are hundreds of students that come to Georgetown every year that are not pining to walk the campus debating the great issues of social justice and interfaith understanding. Some are just trying to take classes and get a job someday. |
|
|
|
Post by utraquehoya on Mar 26, 2008 8:33:55 GMT -5
That certainly is interesting. Are you arguing that to be a preferable situation to the status quo at GU, ed? If so, I'd be interested to hear how you think that would make us a better university, especially given our unique position and role vis-a-vis interfaith dialogue. "Unique position"? GU has no civic or ecclesial mandate in this matter. The public perception is that Georgetown wants all the benefits of Catholicism without the commitments required of it, which gets it into trouble. If Georgetown wants to sell itself as a Roman Catholic institution, it ought to work within the rules in place for schools who want the designation. What "rules in place"? [Or, more specifically, which ones is Georgetown not abiding by? |
|
|
|
Post by bmghoya on Mar 26, 2008 9:01:02 GMT -5
Just a comment on what is admittedly a more complex issue than what I will suggest here: didn't Father John Courtney Murray (who ichiro rightly invokes here) put all of these debates to rest decades ago? The Church is arguably more interested in exerting influence upon Catholic institutions since then. See "Ex Corde Ecclesia". The fall-out from Vatican II is still being debated today, so you shouldn't really look at Father John Courtney Murray's thoughts as something that has been fully played out. On another note, I would be stunned if Pope Benedict lays the axe down as harshly (or, perhaps the correct phrase is "as explicitly") as the media leads you to believe. It is simply not his style. |
|
