vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Oct 30, 2007 0:58:20 GMT -5
For a team with nothing that even resembles a running game, the Packers aren't doing half bad. Favre is making all those people who said he should retire look pretty silly. Why? Because he might sweat out one last NFC north title? Ooh that's much more important to the future of the Packers organization than, ya know, letting Aaron Rodgers take some snaps because he unlike the geezer wearing #4 is the FUTURE OF THE PROGRAM EDIT: And I didn't even realize that I reached the 1000 mark on a Favre rant, sweet ;D
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Oct 30, 2007 1:11:18 GMT -5
Funny - nobody talked about "running up the score" when the Rams were the "Greatest Show on Turf". Guess it depends upon what your agenda is. I think a part (but not all) of it is the Patriots (coach and team included) are PO'd at all the people who said "hmm, look at those small margins of victory in the SBs they won - that could have been cheating." The reaction is: "it wasn't, but if that's what you think, fine, we'll just kick the crap out of you then." For his part, Belichick maintained today that he was always taught to "coach until the end of the game." When asked about worry about injuries, he said (paraphrasing) that players are more likely to get injured when they took their foot off the gas pedal. RDF: my condolences on HOF Favre pulling another rabbit out of the hat in Denver. Uh oh, .... I just wonder if someone in the administration is going to receive the same ... shall we say, negative attention than, shall we say, that just a mere poster/ would have received.?.?
I know how much you all "Love" Colin Cowherd, but he has been fairly consistent with his opinions regarding this . Like him or not, he for the most part makes his decision and then stands by it.
Regarding this issue, when the story broke, he was of the opinion that:
1. The rule is a terrible rule on the surface. Anything that is plain view on the sidelines of a football game getting broadcasted to who knows how many millions of people, isn't ... or at least, shouldn't be viewes as privilidged or sacred in any way.
2. As the rule is such a topic of discussion and dispute, it should be presumed that all other teams are "somewhat," disregarding the rule in some degree.
Given that we would all, virtually all accept the previous 2 assumptions, it is unfathomable that we would devise our entire system, with the conclusion that we should try to send communicate our defensive playcalling in such a confusing/alternate way, so as to be "illegible" to our opponents .... which presumably have also read the two univerally accepted rules?
His follow up point was that if you simplify successful stories ... at least/especially from our recent capitalized market .... that he had formularized the ingredients for success:
(as much as I have mixed emotions, I can't really decide as to his underlying premise.)
The "team" becomes the city. As much as it might seem otherwise, the "team" becomes the city.
He analogizes the Steelers, Jets/Giants, White Sox/Cubs, etc...
to their respective cities.
He then devises a "perfect" formula for success which includes three key things:
1. Passion 2. Intelligence 3. Money
In no particular order, he randomly brings up each individual illustrations of each of his particular suggestions.
Without going too far with this, his point was that if you look at successful franchises of late, these three qualities are suspiciously obvious.
The Boston Red Sox and the New England Patriots were his obvious examples from baseball.
His point was that although other teams like Dallas and Los Angeles have the money, Green Bay or KC have the passion, and that although other teams like Seattle or Washington D.C. have the intelligence, the real formula for overall success is the combination of those three.
Boston in his opinion is the perfect mix of these qualities.
P.S. Don't shoot the messenger.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Oct 30, 2007 2:45:57 GMT -5
It's sports--if you get the TALENT and that includes coaching/front office aka TALENT EVALUATION--you win. This isn't any rocket science--it's being able to decipher what your team needs, what type of player can play situationally in sports--so many guys are talented--but don't have the mind for the game and don't understand what seperates winning from losing--they are great players--but don't love the sport-they just happen to be talented players--it's ability to find more guys who love the game and have the talent to make an impact. This garbage about the "Cities"--give me a break. So were Dallas and San Francisco more "passionate" as fanbases when the Boys and Niners dominated the NFL? What Belichick said is absolutely correct--however you play your game and let your reserves do it when up by large margin in 8th game of the season--the goal isn't to win by 50--it's to win every game and another championship and longer you tempt fate--the odds are someone will get hurt--it's been that way, will be that way, and nothing you can do about it. Favre was great tonight--and has had a nice season. The Favre poetry jam, and lovefest rally ESPN held tonight--was odd and having a player's wife in the booth-struck me a bit odd--but Deanna is hot, intelligent, and added more to the ESPN Booth then any of those idiots who accompany Jaws do--so overlooked. How about Kornheiser and Jaws saying they cried about the opening dedicated to "Our Favre"? WOW--it's beyond disgusting as broadcasters to be so unprofessional-but that is the ESPN way.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Oct 30, 2007 2:52:54 GMT -5
For a team with nothing that even resembles a running game, the Packers aren't doing half bad. Favre is making all those people who said he should retire look pretty silly. Why? Because he might sweat out one last NFC north title? Ooh that's much more important to the future of the Packers organization than, ya know, letting Aaron Rodgers take some snaps because he unlike the geezer wearing #4 is the FUTURE OF THE PROGRAM EDIT: And I didn't even realize that I reached the 1000 mark on a Favre rant, sweet ;D If Aaron Rodgers was the starting QB this year the Packers would be 1-6 instead of 6-1. The team has the worst rushing game in the league - tonight was the first time this season that a Green Bay running back cracked 100 yards. The recievers are hardly the best guys out there - there's a reason Favre was so Editeded when the Packers didn't get Randy Moss. The only reason this team is scoring points is because the greybeard in the #4 jersey is playing out of his mind.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Oct 30, 2007 5:11:34 GMT -5
the favre lovefest last night on espn was nauseating. as hard as it is for me to say, he and the packers are playing great but the way berman, tirico, jaws, and that goof kornheiser were gushing over him made me wanna puke.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Oct 30, 2007 7:15:21 GMT -5
Maybe it's a good thing I didn't walk in until late in the game. Down here Monday Night Football is actually Tuesday Late Afternoon Football.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 30, 2007 8:52:39 GMT -5
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Oct 30, 2007 10:01:19 GMT -5
Dan:
That's exactly the point. Whether one is a Pats fan or not, whether one agrees with the philosophy or not, I don't see how anyone can disagree with the fact that Belichick is leaving his starters in there to run up the score to prove a point.
There's only 2 things that can come of having Brady in at the end of a 52-7 blowout running QB sneaks and going for it on fourth down - to pad his stats and to say F*** You to the rest of the league. It does nothing for them long term and won't matter squat in the playoffs.
What it does do is risk injury and expose the players to more hits and more wear & tear. So why risk it? There's no upside and a huge downside. That's what makes it so stupid.
And Belichick's smart ass response when asked why he didn't attempt a FG on fourth down was idiotic. Yes, of course you should. Especially up 5 TD's in the 4th quarter. You had a 4th and 7 at the Redskin's 18 when you were up only 14 in the 2nd quarter. What did the Pats do? They kicked a FG.
All this BS about going for it or throwing a long bomb is actually better because it gave the Redskins a chance to force a stop or get a turnover is BS on the part of Pats fans. Do you really think Belichick was being benevolent by going for it? C'mon...
Yes, the Pats area great team. And yes, the Redskins are a professional football team and they should have played better if they didn't want to get embarrassed. But the Patriots were classless and I can't wait for karma to come back and bite them in the rear.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 30, 2007 10:16:19 GMT -5
1) It is bad sportsmanship to run up the score. However, this applies more against little leaguers, less against professionals. You want to know what else is bad sportsmanship: crying about a loss afterwards.
2) It was beyond stupid to QB sneak Brady. Absolutely senseless risk.
3) I don't get how you can be critical of Cassells throwing the ball in the 4th quarter and going for touchdowns. Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't it more valuable for Matt and the team if he actually tries to score in a game situation rather than kneel it out?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2007 10:29:10 GMT -5
I'd love to see how Pats fans would react if....say....the Colts were doing the same things.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Oct 30, 2007 10:35:59 GMT -5
I assume that Belichick is doing this to say "screw you" to the NFL. It's within their right - people are getting paid.
There may be some value to doing this, however. Average teams get scared, knowing that if they're a fraud, the Pats will make them suffer. They play to make the score respectable, not to win. High-level teams get mad, seeing the Pats as (as TMQ put it) evil. The Pats then have the mental advantage - the opposition doesn't just want to win.
I, personally, am hoping that the Pats make the Super Bowl and play the Packers. As has been shown repeatedly, the Pack is symbolic of all that is good and true. Favre will then destroy Grendel and all will be right with the world.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Oct 30, 2007 10:49:51 GMT -5
Dan, I didn't really get a chance to finish the thought. His point was that the teams ultimately take after the cities. Pittsburgh is a very hard working blue collar city. The Steelers have basically become a blue collar take care of business team. In Texas, everything is big: big ranches, big cars, big hats etc... the Cowboys take after those qualities. Boston is a smarter new england city, while LA and New York are more of the melting pot, hustle and bustle variety. He gave several other examples and at least in the dozen or so that he mentioned, there is at least a slight representation of the city in their respective teams. The one consistency (I really should have said the 3 consistencies) is that all of the truly successful teams have three things: 1. Money 2. Intelligence 3. Passion.
He then likened individuals in a similar manner and his suggestion was that the sideline videotaping only served to put a chip on Belichek's shoulder. Now he's a smart, passionate hard worker .... with a chip on his shoulder to boot.
Who knows how much of that thought process plays into his mind, but it would certainly make sense.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 30, 2007 10:53:11 GMT -5
I'd love to see how Pats fans would react if....say....the Colts were doing the same things. Ah, how short our memory really is... Please see: Peyton Manning, "My Single-Minded Quest to Shatter the Single Season Touchdown Record Before Getting Housed by the Pats in the Playoffs," NFL Press (Indianapolis 2004). There is a new addition coming out soon, with the following chapter added: "Why I Only Have One Title, No Personal Records of Note Anymore, and Married My Dumpy High School Sweetheart Instead of Sowing My Wild Oats with Giselle Bundchen...and Other Stories of Failure and a Life Only Half-Lived."
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 30, 2007 10:59:16 GMT -5
I, personally, am hoping that the Pats make the Super Bowl and play the Packers. As has been shown repeatedly, the Pack is symbolic of all that is good and true. Favre will then destroy Grendel and all will be right with the world. RDF would love that: Favre with 5 INTs / 2 returned for TDs... Cambridge: As far as the whining after a loss, I don't recall the coach taking offense... "I have no problem with anything they did," Gibbs said. The other thing I heard Belichick say yesterday was that when they HAD taken the starters out in Miami the week before, the whole team let up and he felt that was bad for their progress overall. That's the context of playing full tilt came up. I'm not defending keeping Brady, Maroney, and front line skill players in the game precisely because of injury potential, just giving you the man's response to direct questions about it.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Oct 30, 2007 11:05:08 GMT -5
I, personally, am hoping that the Pats make the Super Bowl and play the Packers. As has been shown repeatedly, the Pack is symbolic of all that is good and true. Favre will then destroy Grendel and all will be right with the world. RDF would love that: Favre with 5 INTs / 2 returned for TDs... Cambridge: As far as the whining after a loss, I don't recall the coach taking offense... "I have no problem with anything they did," Gibbs said. The other thing I heard Belichick say yesterday was that when they HAD taken the starters out in Miami the week before, the whole team let up and he felt that was bad for their progress overall. That's the context of playing full tilt came up. I'm not defending keeping Brady, Maroney, and front line skill players in the game precisely because of injury potential, just giving you the man's response to direct questions about it. The whining comments I heard came from 2 different Redskin players whe said that they (Pats) had disrespected the game.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 30, 2007 11:08:56 GMT -5
RDF would love that: Favre with 5 INTs / 2 returned for TDs... Cambridge: As far as the whining after a loss, I don't recall the coach taking offense... "I have no problem with anything they did," Gibbs said. The other thing I heard Belichick say yesterday was that when they HAD taken the starters out in Miami the week before, the whole team let up and he felt that was bad for their progress overall. That's the context of playing full tilt came up. I'm not defending keeping Brady, Maroney, and front line skill players in the game precisely because of injury potential, just giving you the man's response to direct questions about it. The whining comments I heard came from 2 different Redskin players whe said that they (Pats) had disrespected the game. That's exactly what I was referring to, two players crying foul after the game...reminiscent of the Chargers.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Oct 30, 2007 11:11:43 GMT -5
I, personally, am hoping that the Pats make the Super Bowl and play the Packers. As has been shown repeatedly, the Pack is symbolic of all that is good and true. Favre will then destroy Grendel and all will be right with the world. So we'd have the player willing to hurt his team to help a friend trying to beat the team that's only wants to make enemies?
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 30, 2007 11:34:00 GMT -5
Listen, I get it, the Pats are evil. Personally, I love it. Here are some things I'm sure are not beyond the scope of their evilosity:
1) Sticking around after a road game to challenge their opposition's kids' pop warner team to an impromptu game, so they can grind those saps into the ground--ensuring there are no surviving heirs to avenge the fathers.
2) Placing David Thomas on the inactive list, just to run black ops against other teams. His duties involved seducing opposing players' wives, delivery drugs to their children and buying extra shots for their owners and GMs at the bar moments before Scott Pioli calls them with a "win-win" trade proposal.
3) Moving the team headquarters to Yemen to avoid US taxes and limit corporate liability. This will also allow the coaching staff to interact more openly with their numerous al-qaeda contacts without fear of exposure by the press.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2007 12:43:10 GMT -5
There is a new addition coming out soon, with the following chapter added: "Why I Only Have One Title, No Personal Records of Note Anymore, and Married My Dumpy High School Sweetheart Instead of Sowing My Wild Oats with Giselle Bundchen...and Other Stories of Failure and a Life Only Half-Lived." I suppose it's better to get someone pregnant and then walk out on her.
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FewFAC
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Post by FewFAC on Oct 30, 2007 13:19:03 GMT -5
Having seen some miraculous comebacks in both professional and collegiate football, I have no problem with "running up the score." In fact, as far as I am concerned, the game isn't over until the clock strikes triple zero. To not continue to execute your game plan--and that includes "dialing it down"--only creates problems for your team, and causes a team to lose both momentum and rhythm. If teams have a problem, they should stop the Patriots, or any other team.
If the Patriots were up five or six touchdowns running a no-huddle, quick-snap, two-minute drill offense, I might have a problem. If the Patriots were using a Peyton-Manning offense, I might have a problem. But for a team down five touchdowns to take offense because a team doesn't hand the ball off three straight times with a cloud of dust only tells me they don't have what it takes to get on the field and leave it all out on the field, or take their beatdown like men. If they want to play like little girlyboys, keep whining about how they were disrespected because they and their coaches didn't gameplan how to stop a team.
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