hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 1, 2007 12:35:11 GMT -5
Good stuff. The only quibble I would have is that I would like to know at what point the two reserves entered the games. This is far more relevant than comparing the number of passes thrown, because it's possible that Sorgi may have been in the game for a bunch of running plays, with few passes being called. Other than that, this article does a really nice job of pointing out the existence of a double standard.
I have no ax to grind here, not being a particular supporter or hater of either team, but I would point out that if the evil genius really wanted to run up the score against Miami, how is it that the Pats only scored 7 in the second half?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2007 12:58:11 GMT -5
And please, spare me this nonsense about the Colts and Rams and whoever doing the same thing. Go back and look at the Colts in 2004, when Manning had his 49 TDs. They had some blowouts, but not a lot. Look at the 11/21/04 game versus the Bears, where Indy was up 41-3 at the beginning of the 4th. They had a 38 point lead, just like the Pats. What did they do on their first drive of the 4th quarter? They rushed 11 straight times. No passes. No sneaks. Nothing fancy. The drive ended at the Bears 18 when they rushed Dominic Rhodes on 4th and 10. So I have no problem going for it on 4th when they're just running out the clock. But I don't think that's what the Pats were doing. It's pretty clear when a team is kicking a FG or going for it on 4th down in order to run out the game versus trying to run up the score even more. Look at the 2004 Thanksgiving game Colts at Lions. Colts up 41-9 in the 4th and same thing - lots of runs and Peyton Manning out. sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20041125008&page=playsQuoting the Colts' scores from 2004 is one thing. Thanks to kchoya for putting them in context earlier in the thread.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Nov 1, 2007 15:54:13 GMT -5
Personally, I weep tears nightly for the injured egos and broken dreams of all who have had to suffer at the hands of the evil, malevolent Belichick and his gruff horde of unsporting heathens.
Thanks again Cam and kchoya for falling back and holding that line in the sand of reason and honor. While some may not recognize the exemplary bravery you have shown in defending your position in the face of historical evidence, statistics and reason, I will gladly lead a hearty "huzzah!" Please continue your glorious retreat from "Peyton would never do this" to "Peyton didn't do this as badly" to "At least Sorgi played for two minutes more each game."
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 1, 2007 19:16:00 GMT -5
Personally, I weep tears nightly for the injured egos and broken dreams of all who have had to suffer at the hands of the evil, malevolent Belichick and his gruff horde of unsporting heathens. Thanks again Cam and kchoya for falling back and holding that line in the sand of reason and honor. While some may not recognize the exemplary bravery you have shown in defending your position in the face of historical evidence, statistics and reason, I will gladly lead a hearty "huzzah!" Please continue your glorious retreat from "Peyton would never do this" to "Peyton didn't do this as badly" to "At least Sorgi played for two minutes more each game." I don't have a dog in the fight one way or the other. I'm not Pats fan or Colts fan. However, I do think Belichick is a dick and I hope this backfires on them somehow. My only point in going back and looking at the Colts games is to see if Indy called off the dogs or not. After all this "but everyone else does it" crap from Pats fans, I was wondering if they had a point our not. I agree with those who say that if the Redskins (or whichever team) doesn't want to get blown out, they should have done something on the field to stop it (including roughing up some Pats players). However, I think you can demonstrate your football superiority without trying to extend your 38-0 lead in the 4th quarter in the manner in which the Pats did on Sunday. Sometimes class and professionalism and "doing things the right way" can get in the way of admiring the greatness of a player or team. I just think you can blow teams out without being unprofessional about it. It bugs me how Belichick is giving the middle finger to the rest of the league and not caring who he embarrasses to do it.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Nov 2, 2007 5:35:15 GMT -5
belichick isn't embarrassing anyone. the redskins embarrassed themselves. they gave up, and so did gibbs. so you want the patriots to play half assed just so the redskins don't get embarrassed? please. this isn't pop warner. if gibbs and the deadskins didn't like what was going on, then grow a set and actually try to play some defense.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 8:24:03 GMT -5
Personally, I weep tears nightly for the injured egos and broken dreams of all who have had to suffer at the hands of the evil, malevolent Belichick and his gruff horde of unsporting heathens. Thanks again Cam and kchoya for falling back and holding that line in the sand of reason and honor. While some may not recognize the exemplary bravery you have shown in defending your position in the face of historical evidence, statistics and reason, I will gladly lead a hearty "huzzah!" Please continue your glorious retreat from "Peyton would never do this" to "Peyton didn't do this as badly" to "At least Sorgi played for two minutes more each game." At least kchoya actually backed up his points. Unlike this writer for boston.com, who simply ripped someone else.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 2, 2007 10:14:46 GMT -5
At least kchoya actually backed up his points. Unlike this writer for boston.com, who simply ripped someone else. Exactly. I posted his article to give you an example of how the writers in Boston, for the most part, have drunk the kool-aid. Personally, I have no problem with the Patriots running their offense. Their offense has play calls with options to go wherever the defense dictates. As others have said, this is the NFL, not Pop Warner. There is a legitimate argument to be made about not pulling Brady late in games due to risk of injury, but this is nothing new - Brady has played late in to the 4th quarter of most games (even with big leads) ever since he took over as WB. Much of the current backlash is, IMO, due to the negative perception many people have of the coach (evidenced by the terms of endearment used against him in this thread, for instance).
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 2, 2007 10:20:07 GMT -5
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 2, 2007 11:44:28 GMT -5
HoyaFanNY is right--Gibbs and Skins did lay down--and if they wanted to do something about it--they should've played zero coverage, come with an all out blitz and tried to knock Brady out of the game--that might have sent a message to Belichick--and if not-it might have ended Brady's season or knocked him out for games.
This talk of "Sportsmanship" is silly. The job of a defense is to get the QB out of the game--and they are told to hit him/put him on his backside--but it's to knock him out if possible. The job of an offense is to score points.
I think some people mistake the talk of "running up the score" with talk of what is sensible by Pats--getting Brady out to protect him from risk of injury. Thing is--with limited rosters--you can't sub too many other positions in NFL--you only have so many active WR's, OL, etc...so your starters will have to play no matter what the score is at some of those positions.
I think Joe Gibbs is running "down" the score by having Jason Campbell throw hitches aka "USC passes" once every possession. Get some creativity Grandpa Gibbs or go back to NASCAR.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Nov 2, 2007 14:31:07 GMT -5
God bless Patrick Hruby. . . ;D 2. Facing a fourth-and-1 and leading the Washington Redskins 38-0 in the fourth quarter of an eventual 52-7 victory, the New England Patriots:(a) Kicked a field goal (b) Went for a first down (c) Bulldozed an orphanage sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hruby/071102
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FewFAC
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Post by FewFAC on Nov 2, 2007 15:18:52 GMT -5
Reading about Lance Armstrong and Ashley Olsen just made me throw up in a mouth a little bit.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 2, 2007 20:12:24 GMT -5
Reading about Lance Armstrong and Ashley Olsen just made me throw up in a mouth a little bit. I'm not quite sure what this has to do with the NFL (what team does Ashley play for?), but yes, this ranks very, very high on the you have to be kidding me scale.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 2, 2007 22:22:05 GMT -5
I know this is awful to say--but it has to be said by someone--I want Seau to miss out on rest of this year--by any means necessary. If I have to hear "I have time to actually drink a full cup of Gatorade" from him one more time--he said it at the Celtics game tonight, the interview/slurp job with Boston King, and on 2 Radio interviews as well. He's a washed up has been--and doing the Matt Millen--where you roam from Super Bowl contender you think has best chance to win and don't do much more then jump around and get gift tackles, INT's, etc.... and a lot of fake emotion. He and HGH Harrison are really in need of season/career ending injuries.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 3, 2007 17:09:11 GMT -5
Put another way, you play to win the super bowl. Piling on in the 4th quarter of blowouts does nothing to help to reach that goal. However, it does increase the risk of Brady and others being injured. Such injuries would hamper the Pats ability to win it all. They may make it to 19-0 unscathed and uninjured, but I see little reward and a big risk for doing what they're doing.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Nov 4, 2007 13:35:11 GMT -5
Why would they run the ball when they are shorthanded at running back and the other team is loading the box with defenders? Doesn't that strike you as more dangerous? Especially with an upright runner like Maroney who has already suffered an injury in his short career?
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azarin
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Post by azarin on Nov 4, 2007 19:45:49 GMT -5
How 'bout them Patriots?
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Nov 4, 2007 20:19:02 GMT -5
I didn't have a dog in the fight but I laughed when Brady took a knee to end it out, I think it was Belechick's way of saying "No America I'm not evil/retarded, I'll take a win"
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Nov 4, 2007 20:21:16 GMT -5
nice of the nfl to send its worst refs to do the biggest regular season game in recent memory. i thought they were going to job the pats out of a win.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Nov 4, 2007 20:26:03 GMT -5
Unbelievable call against Moss in the end zone. Speechless. Probably the worst call I've ever seen.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Nov 4, 2007 22:34:38 GMT -5
Unbelievable call against Moss in the end zone. Speechless. Probably the worst call I've ever seen. A make-up call, no doubt (and a pretty bad one, I have to agree). Moss incorporates the push-off as part of his standard technique. This ref crew calls OPI more often than the league average, and they study film of the teams, so they were probably thinking coming in that they would call one on him. Why they picked that particular time, I have no idea.
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