SFOHoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 500
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TO
Aug 11, 2005 15:13:20 GMT -5
Post by SFOHoya on Aug 11, 2005 15:13:20 GMT -5
Best move the sinking Niners ship ever made... getting rid of TO.
What a self-impressed idiot (to keep it brief)
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Bahstin
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 624
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TO
Aug 11, 2005 17:15:02 GMT -5
Post by Bahstin on Aug 11, 2005 17:15:02 GMT -5
There is no way the positives outweigh the negatives. No team should want this guy.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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TO
Aug 11, 2005 20:13:31 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2005 20:13:31 GMT -5
At first, I actually had T.O.'s back on this - NFL teams routinely fail to honor contracts (yes I understand that's the CBA the players hvae gotten themselves into, but the fact remains - teams back out of contracts all the time), so, I said, why can't a player do the same thing, fully knowing the team and its fans will likely be Editeded?
But now he's just acting like a baby. I'm back on the Eagles side of the fence...
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,132
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TO
Aug 11, 2005 22:22:05 GMT -5
Post by RBHoya on Aug 11, 2005 22:22:05 GMT -5
I think the T.O. thing is great. I love an NFL player standing up for himself like this. The system is biased toward owners and unfair to players (as opposed to the NBA where contracts are guaranteed). People are saying that T.O. is acting like a jerk and I guess that's true, but so what? It's business, and sometimes you have to step on some toes and you'll make some people mad. That's just the nature of negotiation.
The underlying problem, IMHO, is that a large part of the American public is angry that a guy who makes millions of dollars a year to play football is trying to get more money. People expect the black athlete to say "Yes Mastah" and be happy about the fact that they make a nice living off of playing sports. That's why there's so much outrage when someone like TO fights for more money. When a white man wearing a white collar does something similar in the corporate world, it's "hardball" but when T.O. or someone like that does it, it's outlandish.
Good for him. Nobody else is looking out for Terell Owens except for Terell Owens, so he's got the right to do whatever he feels like doing (within his contract) to get paid.
And as a Giants fan, I love the turmoil in Eagle land.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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TO
Aug 12, 2005 8:08:35 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2005 8:08:35 GMT -5
See, for me its not a race or equity thing, RB. Black, white, yellow, pink, I don't care. Further, like I said, I had his back because based on the economic realities of the NFL I thought he DID have a leg to stand on.
The only reason I'm back on the Eagles side of the whole thing is because, in my opinion, T.O. isn't going about this whole hardball negotiation like a man. He and Rosenhaus keep saying T.O. will report and play but he just won't be happy. That's fine, I have no problem with that... there IS nothing in his contract (I presume) that says he has to be happy, play nice with the fans, etc. (I'm sure there are some requirements for autograph signings and community service, but that's it). But his actions have been disruptive to a whole bunch of other guys trying to make a living and that's what I have a problem with.
If he really were only concerned with getting a new deal and was sincere about showing up and playing despite being unhappy, he wouldn't be talking trash about teammates and coaches every chance he got.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,420
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TO
Aug 12, 2005 8:47:22 GMT -5
Post by the_way on Aug 12, 2005 8:47:22 GMT -5
See, for me its not a race or equity thing, RB. Black, white, yellow, pink, I don't care. Further, like I said, I had his back because based on the economic realities of the NFL I thought he DID have a leg to stand on. The only reason I'm back on the Eagles side of the whole thing is because, in my opinion, T.O. isn't going about this whole hardball negotiation like a man. He and Rosenhaus keep saying T.O. will report and play but he just won't be happy. That's fine, I have no problem with that... there IS nothing in his contract (I presume) that says he has to be happy, play nice with the fans, etc. (I'm sure there are some requirements for autograph signings and community service, but that's it). But his actions have been disruptive to a whole bunch of other guys trying to make a living and that's what I have a problem with. If he really were only concerned with getting a new deal and was sincere about showing up and playing despite being unhappy, he wouldn't be talking trash about teammates and coaches every chance he got. Buff, race does play a part in the public sentiment about T.O. but its not really an issue or the real issue at hand. T.O. 's stance is right. There is a reason Drew Rosanhaus is his agent standing right beside him. I think a new collective barganing agreement is coming up with the NFL. Drew and T.O. are trying to buck and change the system. One the issues at hand is Guaranteed contracts. The NFL and owners are making a killing in terms of money and the players are getting peanuts and no guaranteed money. For all the pounding NFL players take and the life expectancy show short, you are an injury away from being with out a paycheck. Signing bonuses are guaranteed, but sill its peanuts, save for few players. Take the NBA for instance, Rasta Nestrovich is making 11 millions dollars a year for sitting on the bench during the playoffs. And he has like 4 years on his contract, guaranteed. That is insane. Penny Hardaway making like 18 million next year. Insane.Now, from the NFL and Owners standpoint, you get better product and play on the field when the money is not guaranteed, for the most part, you get a players best effort. So both sides will have to meet in the middle. T.O. wants to be released from his contract. But he is with the wrong organization. Philly has shown the hard stance with players before and have not missed a beat: Jeremiah Trotter, Hugh Douglass (both left for more money and came back for less money) Duece Staley, etc. Philly doesn't budge or flinch with its players fighting for money. So T.O. is going to be in for it. This isn't S.F. or Baltimore who he can just bully them into getting his way. The Philly organization is different kind of animal.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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TO
Aug 12, 2005 9:16:46 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2005 9:16:46 GMT -5
I don't care about the public, _way. I said for me[/i] its not a race nor an equity (fair compensation) issue. Pay attention next time. The fact is, I'm behind T.O. as far as the economics/principle of the thing go. But like I said, he's just acting like the biggest child ever... which we should have seen coming.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,420
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TO
Aug 12, 2005 9:32:32 GMT -5
Post by the_way on Aug 12, 2005 9:32:32 GMT -5
I don't care about the public, _way. I said for me[/i] its not a race nor an equity (fair compensation) issue. Pay attention next time. The fact is, I'm behind T.O. as far as the economics/principle of the thing go. But like I said, he's just acting like the biggest child ever... which we should have seen coming.[/quote] He has to do this. He hasn't done anything he hasn't done already. From calling Jeff Garcia gay, inciting a fight by disrespecting the star in Dallas, just to bring attention to himself. By telling Baltimore he doesn't want to play for them after they traded for him. The history is there. This is how he has always been. The squeaky wheel gets the oil, but with the Eagles have a history of getting another vehicle with a whole new set of wheels. The Eagles have the leverage. The contract is there which he signed. BUT, T.O. knows that they have NO, I mean, NO receivers this year. So I guess he figures he has leverage. I have a feeling he will get his way, one way or another.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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TO
Aug 12, 2005 9:40:54 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2005 9:40:54 GMT -5
That's why I wrote this behavior was something "we should have seen coming." Good lord read my posts more carefully! We all know the guy's past.
And another thing, he doesn't have to do this. Be a man for once. Handle a contract dispute like a man would in any other industry. Don't go all Spree on us.
And despite the fact I side with NFL players in instances like this (i.e. if a team can just up and void a contract, why can't a player conduct himself in an analogous manner), the fact remains this is the system the players and their representatives collectively bargained for. And a new CBA will not have guaranteed contracts. If anything, it will increase the revenue pool from which players draw their salaries, but that's about it.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,212
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TO
Aug 12, 2005 12:21:20 GMT -5
Post by hoyarooter on Aug 12, 2005 12:21:20 GMT -5
Why did TO sign this contract to begin with? If he's so concerned about the contract not being guaranteed (which is a valid concern), why didn't he just say, look, I don't want to deal with this 7-year BS when I know you have no intention of keeping me for 7 years. Just give me 4 years guaranteed for $32 million (or whatever). I don't believe the CBA prohibits teams from providing players with guaranteed contracts, it just doesn't require it. So if you're a 4 star player (and I suppose TO is, despite all his personal shortcomings), why didn't he just say he would take less money guaranteed, instead of having to deal with pie in the sky nonsense so his agent can claim he got TO a $50 million contract?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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TO
Aug 12, 2005 12:44:29 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2005 12:44:29 GMT -5
Even if its for less money over a shorter duration of time, no team is going to give out a guaranteed deal when a player can get hurt and end his career in an instant... horrible cap implications (plus, bad precedent to set... these owners stick together like glue).
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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TO
Aug 12, 2005 18:42:40 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 12, 2005 18:42:40 GMT -5
Gee, I tend to honor my contract.
TO is an ass. You know he did something to get kicked out of practice, and now he's pbulcily backstabbing everyone he can.
The worst part of this is that ESTO, er EPSN, has become more unwatchable. I tried to watch my Chargers and all I got was Theisman fellating Favre and TO talk.
I don't care.
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TO
Aug 13, 2005 22:30:38 GMT -5
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Aug 13, 2005 22:30:38 GMT -5
regardless of the context in which TOs contract exists (race, equity, the CBA, whatever ideas he and Drew Rosenhaus come up during interviews) he is under contract. When you sign the contract you agree to all that it represents and you agree to abide by it. He is ludicrous for not doing that.
Let's say I work in a firm. I got added in the middle of a very improtant project, because of me the project went extremely well. After the project is over I walk into the head of the company and demand a raise. He says that we'll talk about it when I come up for performance review. As a result of this I go "Office Space" on my co-workers and barely show up and then start yelling at one of my supervisors. What do you think would happen to me in the real world?
TO does not realize that having the ability to play football is a privilige and that the success of a team does not hinge on one player. As far as I see it TO was worth one extra win to the Eagles as opposed to previous years - does that mean he's worth the money? I think the Eagles are starting to realize that they are better off as a team with what they can get for TO in a trade as opposed to having TO be in the locker room. I only hope that the Falcons aren't too dumb to trade for him.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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TO
Aug 15, 2005 13:45:58 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2005 13:45:58 GMT -5
But by the same token, if a team enters into a contract shouldn't they live up to their end as well and not cut guys left and right as they so often do?
As I mentioned earlier, I answer my own question by saying "Well, that's the CBA the players got themselves into." And the fact of the matter is, that's all that needs to be said.
But then again, there is nothing in the CBA that says players MUST honor their contracts just as there is nothing that says owners/teams must (quite the opposite, in fact). As long as Terrell isn't violating his collectively bargained for rights or the contract labor has with management, I've got no problem with him doing what it takes to get his. In fact, he's doing quite the opposite - he's showing up, he's practicing, etc. I think he's a greedy dope, is trying to be bigger than his team and the league and in doing this he should be ready and willing to accept whatever consequences may come his way, but he's got that right and I'll support it.
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TO
Aug 15, 2005 15:01:56 GMT -5
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Aug 15, 2005 15:01:56 GMT -5
He certainly does have the right to act like an idiot as you point out - there is absolutely nothing in the CBA or in his contract that prevents him from turning his career into a media circus and cause his trade value and future contract value to go into a tail-spin.
I think that when you look at TO from a management perspective of cost-benefit analysis there is no question that he needs to be traded - the only problem for the Eagles now is finding a team that is dumb enough to take him.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,212
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TO
Aug 16, 2005 12:57:13 GMT -5
Post by hoyarooter on Aug 16, 2005 12:57:13 GMT -5
He certainly does have the right to act like an idiot as you point out - there is absolutely nothing in the CBA or in his contract that prevents him from turning his career into a media circus and cause his trade value and future contract value to go into a tail-spin. I think that when you look at TO from a management perspective of cost-benefit analysis there is no question that he needs to be traded - the only problem for the Eagles now is finding a team that is dumb enough to take him. Raiders? I hear Isaiah Thomas is casting out feelers, as well.
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TO
Aug 16, 2005 14:01:15 GMT -5
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Aug 16, 2005 14:01:15 GMT -5
He chould play Shooting Guard/Forward for the Knicks - I hear they want to put together a team with 11 SG/F's and Marburry.
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TO
Aug 17, 2005 20:33:10 GMT -5
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Aug 17, 2005 20:33:10 GMT -5
TO went back to camp today and apparently things are "ok" not great just ok. What is the over/under on number of days until everything boils over again or TO gets traded?
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,212
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TO
Aug 19, 2005 12:56:00 GMT -5
Post by hoyarooter on Aug 19, 2005 12:56:00 GMT -5
TO went back to camp today and apparently things are "ok" not great just ok. What is the over/under on number of days until everything boils over again or TO gets traded? I'll take 37 minutes.
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Joe Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
You're watching Sports Night on CSC, so stick around.
Posts: 1,236
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TO
Aug 31, 2005 23:39:37 GMT -5
Post by Joe Hoya on Aug 31, 2005 23:39:37 GMT -5
I think the T.O. thing is great. I love an NFL player standing up for himself like this. The system is biased toward owners and unfair to players (as opposed to the NBA where contracts are guaranteed). People are saying that T.O. is acting like a jerk and I guess that's true, but so what? It's business, and sometimes you have to step on some toes and you'll make some people mad. That's just the nature of negotiation. The underlying problem, IMHO, is that a large part of the American public is angry that a guy who makes millions of dollars a year to play football is trying to get more money. People expect the black athlete to say "Yes Mastah" and be happy about the fact that they make a nice living off of playing sports. That's why there's so much outrage when someone like TO fights for more money. When a white man wearing a white collar does something similar in the corporate world, it's "hardball" but when T.O. or someone like that does it, it's outlandish. Good for him. Nobody else is looking out for Terell Owens except for Terell Owens, so he's got the right to do whatever he feels like doing (within his contract) to get paid. And as a Giants fan, I love the turmoil in Eagle land. Turmoil? See Play #1, Friday August 26th. See how the fans reacted. The Eagles, sorry for you, will be just fine. As the board's resident Eagles fan, I can't believe I missed/ignored this thread (I honestly don't know why I didn't see it until tonight). Terrell Owens is a self-serving sack of feminine hygiene product...but damn, can he catch a football. Talk about him all you want during the week, but on Sunday afternoons, when #5 chucks the ball his way...all is forgotten (so long as he comes down with it). Any Eagles fan who says otherwise is lying. Produce, and we don't care. He's gone on February 6th. He knows it, we know it, and that's all there is to it. Until then, he's an Eagle, and he's gonna be there every Sunday/Monday doing his job. I love to see fans of the other teams in the NFC East talking about turmoil and trouble in Philly where there's just a franchise that has its...stuff...in order. See "Douglas, Hugh", "Simon, Corey", "Taylor, Bobby", "Trotter, Jeremiah", and "Vincent, Troy." Here's to 13-3 (and then 3-0).
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