Palmeiro Suspended

[BeantownHoya]

Drug Violation - What a meathead he looks like now:

Remember these words??

Palmeiro's statement before Congress read as follows: "Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Rafael Palmeiro and I am a professional baseball player. I'll be brief in my remarks today. Let me start by telling you this: I have never used steroids. Period. I don't know how to say it any more clearly than that. Never. The reference to me in Mr. Canseco's book is absolutely false. I am against the use of steroids. I don't think athletes should use steroids and I don't think our kids should use them. That point of view is one, unfortunately, that is not shared by our former colleague, Jose Canseco. Mr. Canseco is an unashamed advocate for increased steroid use by all athletes."

[the_way]

I knew he was lying when he first said it. I never liked Palmeiro anyway. He was never a clutch player. He always got his stats when it rarely mattered. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[DFW HOYA]

"In a prepared statement, Palmeiro said he could not explain how the steroids got into his body."

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/baseball/mlb/08/01/steroids.suspension/

[the_way]

dfw said:

"In a prepared statement, Palmeiro said he could not explain how the steroids got into his body."

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/baseball/mlb/08/01/steroids.suspension/

Sounds like a "phantom" syringe.

[Deleted]

There's nothing to wait and see for. They already had the grievance and arbitration, at which the grievance was denied. He's gone for 10 games. Think I read somewhere his first game back will be in Oakland... should make for a warm welcome!

On the flip side of the alleged steriod user coin (although I guess Palmeiro is no longer an "alleged" user), how about Giambi and the tear he is on? He is making people like Gammons and Tim Kurkijianianiiajninn - people who said with Giambi is was more mental than anything else - look really smart.

Comeback. Player. Of. The. Year.

I personally have never really liked the guy - I don't hate him, I just don't love him - but you've gotta somewhat admire what he's done in the face of all the crap that's been heaped upon him - much of which he brought on himself, yes - the past two years. Turns out he's not such a bad player afterall.

[the_way]

buffalohoya said:

There's nothing to wait and see for. They already had the grievance and arbitration, at which the grievance was denied. He's gone for 10 games. Think I read somewhere his first game back will be in Oakland... should make for a warm welcome!

On the flip side of the alleged steriod user coin (although I guess Palmeiro is no longer an "alleged" user), how about Giambi and the tear he is on? He is making people like Gammons and Tim Kurkijianianiiajninn - people who said with Giambi is was more mental than anything else - look really smart.

Comeback. Player. Of. The. Year.

I personally have never really liked the guy - I don't hate him, I just don't love him - but you've gotta somewhat admire what he's done in the face of all the crap that's been heaped upon him - much of which he brought on himself, yes - the past two years. Turns out he's not such a bad player afterall.

I don't admire anything about him. He is a Yankee. I hate him. Giambi probably found another drug that can't be picked up.

[TBird41]

Palmeiro never really impressed me that much. It's kinda hard to argue against him being in the Hall, but I have to say that I agree w/ the_way. He's been good for a very long time, which is impressive, but he's never been the kind of player you'd talk about unless he played for a team you were a fan of. He was a level 3 hall of famer (on the Simmons' 5 level plan) prior to this revelation (solely due to the numbers), but now I'd say that the era he played in, plus the fact that he used steroids would make him a 2nd or even first level guy. Sucks for Orioles' fans and Rangers' fans. Guess Viagra wasn't the only performance enhancer he used.

[Here's Simmons' column--you need insider to read it: proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/020108a]

[the_way]

tbird41 said:

Palmeiro never really impressed me that much. It's kinda hard to argue against him being in the Hall, but I have to say that I agree w/ the_way. He's been good for a very long time, which is impressive, but he's never been the kind of player you'd talk about unless he played for a team you were a fan of. He was a level 3 hall of famer (on the Simmons' 5 level plan) prior to this revelation (solely due to the numbers), but now I'd say that the era he played in, plus the fact that he used steroids would make him a 2nd or even first level guy. Sucks for Orioles' fans and Rangers' fans. Guess Viagra wasn't the only performance enhancer he used.

I'll find Simmons' column on the HOF, but I know it'll be on insider.

He probably had to use Viagra as a result of his steroid use.

[TBird41]

theway said:

buffalohoya said:

I don't admire anything about him. He is a Yankee. I hate him. Giambi probably found another drug that can't be picked up.

I second the Yankee part. I also agree w/ the_way on the drug use (second time in one thread...kinda weird for me)

from Fire Joe Morgan (firejoemorgan.blogspot.com)


"Jason Giambi's OPS in 2003: .939. Jason Giambi's OPS in 2004: .721. Jason Giambi's OPS in April 2005: .768. May: .664. June: .905. July: 1.541.

More significantly, his SLG: April: .373. May: an Alex Cora-esque .315. June: .431. July: 1.000.

Somebody give me one reason not to think that he is back on the Juice, effective June 1, 2005.

One reason."

[the_way]

Exactly, TBird. When I heard Giambi was on a tear, I knew he was back on something. With this thing about Palmiero coming out, I wouldn't be surprised to see Giambi's numbers go down in the upcoming weeks so he can be on the "safe" side.

[Boz]

Whatever Bill Simmons says, I usually go the opposite way (unless its a movie review - he's mostly on the money with those). Ipso fatso, Palmeiro is not only a Hall of Famer, but almost certainly a first ballot Hall of Famer.

Or was.

This changes things somewhat, but he'll still get in, I'd wager. If you don't let Palmerio in because of the era he played in or the fact that he used steriods - which is apparently undeniable now - then sorry, but Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, they're all out too, and any number of other players.

As for being a clutch player when it counts, Mr. Bonds doesn't really fit the bill on that score either. Nor do many HOFers. Baseball is a statistics game, and Palmeiro has them.

Anyway, there are probably serious arguments on both sides, but as for me, I think this is a time for as many jokes as possible that relate Rafael Palmeiro to, ahem, "performance enhancers."

Let the melee ensue. For example, what is the difference between Viagra pills and Rafael Palmerio's testicles? Viagra pills are slightly larger and slightly less blue.

(Full disclosure -- I'm particularly Editeded at Simmons today. He has no business writing a hockey column. What in the hell was the point of that whole thing? He's completely clueless - on this subject, anyway).

Sorry for joining a baseball discussion. Rest assured, it won't happen again. BASEketball? Maybe. Baseball? No.

[the_way]

boz1 said:

Whatever Bill Simmons says, I usually go the opposite way (unless its a movie review - he's mostly on the money with those). Ipso fatso, Palmeiro is not only a Hall of Famer, but almost certainly a first ballot Hall of Famer.

Or was.

This changes things somewhat, but he'll still get in, I'd wager. If you don't let Palmerio in because of the era he played in or the fact that he used steriods - which is apparently undeniable now - then sorry, but Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, they're all out too, and any number of other players.

As for being a clutch player when it counts, Mr. Bonds doesn't really fit the bill on that score either. Nor do many HOFers. Baseball is a statistics game, and Palmeiro has them.

Anyway, there are probably serious arguments on both sides, but as for me, I think this is a time for as many jokes as possible that relate Rafael Palmeiro to, ahem, "performance enhancers."

Let the melee ensue. For example, what is the difference between Viagra pills and Rafael Palmerio's testicles? Viagra pills are slightly larger and slightly less blue.

(Full disclosure -- I'm particularly Editeded at Simmons today. He has no business writing a hockey column. What in the hell was the point of that whole thing? He's completely clueless - on this subject, anyway).

Sorry for joining a baseball discussion. Rest assured, it won't happen again. BASEketball? Maybe. Baseball? No.

I have to correct you on that. Bonds was noted for being an underperformer in the playoffs, but the last playoff-series the Giant's were in where they lost to the Angels in the World Series, Bonds stepped up big time. Bonds, in the regular season, has been a clutch player.

Palmiero, on the other hand, is never clutch in the regular season. His stats alone, should get him in the hall-of-fame. BUT, if I your team needs a game tying hit, home run, bloop single, or any type of clutch performance to help you win the game, Palmiero is the last person you want at the plate, up to bat. As an Orioles fan, I have witnessed this time and time again.

[TBird41]

Boz--I don't really remember whether Simmons said El Viagra should be in the hall. The article I referenced was about restructing the Hall of Fame so that it had 5 levels, w/ the first level being those who are borderline (Blyeven, Fred Rice, etc) to the 5th level, aka the Pantheon, which would have people like Ruth, Mays, Cobb, Walter Johnson, etc.

[Boz]

Just two things to add, then I promise I'll leave the baseball world:

1. TBird, you are right. I was confusting your post with another article Simmons wrote that somewhat belittled Palmeiro's accomplishments, due to the era he plays in. I'm not familiar with his Levels of HOF scale, so I was confused.

(a lot of people wonder why I get so worked up about the sports guy; my answer is usually that I wouldn't take him seriously if he wouldn't; when he focuses on humor, he's still pretty darn funny; when he tries to pass himself off as a real sportswriter, with inside knowledge, sources, and original opinions, that tends to Edited me off, just because he's so alarmingly underqualified for it)

In the interest of clemency, I'll point out there was one outstanding line in Simmons column about hockey:

Q: What are the new drug testing rules?
A. Best described like this: "Um, we don't really have a drug problem in hockey -- these guys are too hungover to do drugs. Please don't bring this up again."


2. _way, I'll concede your point because I'm the first to admit that I don't know much about baseball statistics; I don't know what Palmeiro's career average is with runners in scoring position, what his ratio of game-tying/game-winning hits per opportunity is, or any of that other stuff. (I might be the last person in America who's not sure what the significance of OPS is; I just wish there was a baseball statistic for O.P.P. - 'cause, man, Brady Anderson would be through the roof! ) If you say Bonds is a much more clutch player in the reg. season, so be it. He certainly wasn't in the playoffs until, as you pointed out, the Giants WS appearance. My main point was that I don't think clutch, non-clutch has ever been a determining factor in keeping someone out (maybe it is in letting some people in, however).


Yes, by the way, that's right. I said Brady Anderson. Probably about the last time I paid any real attention to baseball, Brady's days.

Anyway, joke #2:

What was the first thing the tester said to Rafael Palmeiro when he took off his shorts for his urine sample?

"Mr. Palmeiro, don't get defensive. Now please put the bat down, will you?"

Ba-ZING! Me & Stewie Griffin, we got a million of 'em.

[TBird41]

I don't have any jokes about Raffy per se, though I just want everyone to sit back and contemplate the humor that was/is the O's lineup when Palmeiro is followed Surhoff. El Viagra followed by B.J. That, my friends, is a gold mine. A gold mine.

[AustinHoya03]

Ah, the Brady Anderson days...is there any question that Sideburns was on the juice? 2 HRs in '91, 21 in '92, 16 in '95, then up to 50 by '96. (After '96 he never hit more than 24 dingers in a season.)

I believe those were also the days of Ben McDonald, the alligator-wrasslin' O's pitcher of the future from LSU who never really panned out.

As far as Palmeiro goes, another Black day for baseball. Feel sorry for Bud: this wouldn't be nearly as bad if Raffy hadn't just recorded his 3,000th hit.

Since some of y'all think Giambi is still on the juice, an entertaining question is: who else is on undetecable steroids? I would think candidate #1 would be another Oriole, Brian Roberts.

[the_way]

austinhoya03 said:

Ah, the Brady Anderson days...is there any question that Sideburns was on the juice? 2 HRs in '91, 21 in '92, 16 in '95, then up to 50 by '96. (After '96 he never hit more than 24 dingers in a season.)

I believe those were also the days of Ben McDonald, the alligator-wrasslin' O's pitcher of the future from LSU who never really panned out.

As far as Palmeiro goes, another Black day for baseball. Feel sorry for Bud: this wouldn't be nearly as bad if Raffy hadn't just recorded his 3,000th hit.

Since some of y'all think Giambi is still on the juice, an entertaining question is: who else is on undetecable steroids? I would think candidate #1 would be another Oriole, Brian Roberts.

YES! I thought that to myself all year. I mean, the O's debated long and hard about who to get rid as a 2nd basemen for a couple of years, Jerry Hairston or Brian Roberts. I have never seen Roberts hit like this. Nobody envisioned this. It is quite peculiar how he numbers are off the charts this year. As an O's fan, I know Sosa isn't on steroids. ;D Have you seen how flabby and smaller Sosa looks this year, not to mentioned his struggles at the plate.

[hoyaboy1]

For the record, Palmeiro's OPS close and late and with the bases empty are .001 different over the last 3 years - I'm too lazy to look farther back than that right now.

But I personally wouldn't put him in the hall.

[AustinHoya03]

theway said:

As an O's fan, I know Sosa isn't on steroids. ;D Have you seen how flabby and smaller Sosa looks this year, not to mentioned his struggles at the plate.[/quote]

Yeah, I watch way too much baseball and can usually ID most players at the plate. I was flipping through the channels last week and hit the O's-Rangers game with Sammy up. I had absolutely no idea who was batting and figured the O's had brought someone up from the minors.

As far as Giambi and/or Roberts being on the juice, I could go either way. It is almost a certainty that some players are still juicing, since players juice and try to hide it in nearly every sport. But Aubrey Huff has had a power surge similar to Giambi's this month, and he seemingly has a power surge every second half.

[TBird41]

Roberts hit 50 doubles last year. So he had some power. Is steroids the reason that 12 doubles turned into home runs? I don't know. Does B-Rob look appreciably bigger? That'd probably be the best way to figure that out, but I couldn't tell you.