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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Sept 23, 2007 22:12:01 GMT -5
And then there's the problem that they haven't printed a retraction (not a correction) of that article.
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hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,652
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Sept 23, 2007 22:29:42 GMT -5
I think they did retract it. The text of the correction/retraction is not as clear as it could be, but the headline is "Rating retraction."
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoyatables on Sept 23, 2007 22:46:55 GMT -5
I would argue that they're doing more harm to campus culture by stomping on one of our few traditions (e.g. orange shoe trampling university seal) and writing negative articles (e.g. the LEED science building article) than they are doing good. If they thought the photo was a good "joke" then perhaps they were taking comedy tips from Michael Richards... or Margaret Cho. Because I can't imagine many people in the University community looked at that and had a good chuckle. I don't think writing negative articles is damaging to campus culture, per say, it is writing factually incorrect negative articles that is bad. Had the LEED story been true, fine. Good to report on things good and bad. I hope you don't expect campus publications to just be university cheerleaders. As for the photo of the foot on the seal, I don't think it is remotely funny. I think its pretty stupid. But disrespectful? Really? My take on it is that at The Voice, a Vietnam-era offshoot of the traditional campus publication, they are flouting tradition. In theory, I don't really see anything wrong with that. I think its a slight overreaction to say that it damages campus culture to have that photo on their Web site. As for the shoe being orange, yes orange is Syracuse's color so they probably shouldn't have picked orange. But come on. 15-20 posters on this board probably made that connection, and it went over the head of just about everybody else. I don't think it is that big a deal. Student journalism at Georgetown is very much a work in progress at all three of the publications. I think reactions like this -- both by the university community (read: this board) and the publication itself (read: the Voice's blog) -- to something so trivial and stupid may be a contributing factor to why, try as students might, journalism on the Hilltop (at the Voice as well as The Hoya) still has a ways to go. Lastly, the Voice should try and sell advertising on their blog. If they'd had it in place last week, they might be able to pay their bills for the month with all of the traffic this little brouhaha has generated. The LEED story is a perfect example of why no one takes the Voice seriously. Any reporter, student or otherwise, should be responsible for performing the necessary research to tell his story. Will Sommer's original article indicated absolutely NO knowledge of what the LEED system is, how a LEED Silver rating fits in, or just how rare such a rating is in DC. I was happy to see that someone else took the time to write a letter illustrating the extent of the original article's incorrectness.
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,604
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Post by hoyatables on Sept 23, 2007 22:48:11 GMT -5
I think they did retract it. The text of the correction/retraction is not as clear as it could be, but the headline is "Rating retraction." They printed a correction, and also printed a letter from a recent alum that took Mr. Sommer to task and explained just how significant the LEED Silver certification is in context.
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hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,652
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Sept 23, 2007 22:56:58 GMT -5
I don't think writing negative articles is damaging to campus culture, per say, it is writing factually incorrect negative articles that is bad. Had the LEED story been true, fine. Good to report on things good and bad. I hope you don't expect campus publications to just be university cheerleaders. As for the photo of the foot on the seal, I don't think it is remotely funny. I think its pretty stupid. But disrespectful? Really? My take on it is that at The Voice, a Vietnam-era offshoot of the traditional campus publication, they are flouting tradition. In theory, I don't really see anything wrong with that. I think its a slight overreaction to say that it damages campus culture to have that photo on their Web site. As for the shoe being orange, yes orange is Syracuse's color so they probably shouldn't have picked orange. But come on. 15-20 posters on this board probably made that connection, and it went over the head of just about everybody else. I don't think it is that big a deal. Student journalism at Georgetown is very much a work in progress at all three of the publications. I think reactions like this -- both by the university community (read: this board) and the publication itself (read: the Voice's blog) -- to something so trivial and stupid may be a contributing factor to why, try as students might, journalism on the Hilltop (at the Voice as well as The Hoya) still has a ways to go. Lastly, the Voice should try and sell advertising on their blog. If they'd had it in place last week, they might be able to pay their bills for the month with all of the traffic this little brouhaha has generated. The LEED story is a perfect example of why no one takes the Voice seriously. Any reporter, student or otherwise, should be responsible for performing the necessary research to tell his story. Will Sommer's original article indicated absolutely NO knowledge of what the LEED system is, how a LEED Silver rating fits in, or just how rare such a rating is in DC. I was happy to see that someone else took the time to write a letter illustrating the extent of the original article's incorrectness. Believe me, you don't need to convince me of the gravity of the Voice's error in the LEED story. It was a really bad mistake and there is not one single reasonable excuse for an error like that. My only point is that someone, in response to this LEED story, said writing a "negative" story was bad for campus culture. I disagreed if said "negative" story was a factual one. This LEED story clearly was negative but without any ounce of factual support.
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Bando
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I've got some regrets!
Posts: 2,431
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Post by Bando on Sept 24, 2007 0:59:26 GMT -5
I don't like the Voice because their idea of reporting is to come to a conclusion and then search for facts supporting that conclusion, rather than the other way around. However, I must take issue with those who think their headline banner is somehow disrespectful to the university. They're not just advocating stepping on the seal, they're trying to show that their somehow edgy or irreverent by disregarding the superstition that stepping on the seal will make you not graduate. Is it a stupid way of making this point? Sure. Is it somehow disrespectful of the university, its students, or its alumni? Not at all. A superstition isn't a tradition, it's an irrational belief. The world would be a much better place if people didn't believe in superstitions, especially at an institute of higher learning, which is supposed to be a paragon of rational thought and knowledge.
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Post by mrsparkle12 on Sept 24, 2007 8:30:49 GMT -5
I don't like the Voice because their idea of reporting is to come to a conclusion and then search for facts supporting that conclusion, rather than the other way around. However, I must take issue with those who think their headline banner is somehow disrespectful to the university. They're not just advocating stepping on the seal, they're trying to show that their somehow edgy or irreverent by disregarding the superstition that stepping on the seal will make you not graduate. Is it a stupid way of making this point? Sure. Is it somehow disrespectful of the university, its students, or its alumni? Not at all. A superstition isn't a tradition, it's an irrational belief. The world would be a much better place if people didn't believe in superstitions, especially at an institute of higher learning, which is supposed to be a paragon of rational thought and knowledge. So I guess Clemson players should stop rubbing Howard's Rock on their way out to the field at Death Valley; as should the Fighting Irish with its "Play like a champion" sign. Because "places of higher learning" would be "a much better place" without superstitions like that? ...I would argue that’s the sort of thing that's good about the college environment. It separates the unique college atmosphere from the largely cold and undifferentiated professional world.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 24, 2007 11:39:43 GMT -5
i agree with mrsparkle, plus i don't think anyone actually believes they won't graduate if they step on it. They do it for tradition's sake not because they believe some superstition.
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Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by Boz on Sept 24, 2007 11:53:08 GMT -5
Gotta' go with mrsparkle on this one. Superstitions make the world much more entertaining, in or out of college.
And believe it or not, Bando, you almost certainly practice some of them yourself.
Or have you never wished anyone "good luck"? You wouldn't need to, of course. It's a totally unnecessary gesture with no rational basis. But you do it anyway.
Besides, without superstitions, we would never have had the album "Superstition" by Siouxsie & The Banshees. Personally, I don't want to think of a world in which "Kiss Them For Me" and "Fear of the Unknown" had never been written. For that reason alone, superstitions are necessary.
Good to know The Voice still sucks though. Some things don't change.
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JimmyHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Hoya fan, est. 1986
Posts: 1,867
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Post by JimmyHoya on Sept 24, 2007 12:54:15 GMT -5
Frankly, I feel that if Voice writer came here, they'd have no response untill Bando piped and follow with "HEY YEAH, WHAT HE SAID! WE'RE MAKING A STATEMENT...SUPERSTITIONS ARE THE WORK OF BUSH A-BOOOO SUPERSTITIONS...YEAH...SO THERE!"
You give those divvots too much credit, sir.
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Bando
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I've got some regrets!
Posts: 2,431
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Post by Bando on Sept 24, 2007 13:05:21 GMT -5
Gotta' go with mrsparkle on this one. Superstitions make the world much more entertaining, in or out of college. And believe it or not, Bando, you almost certainly practice some of them yourself. Or have you never wished anyone "good luck"? You wouldn't need to, of course. It's a totally unnecessary gesture with no rational basis. But you do it anyway. Besides, without superstitions, we would never have had the album "Superstition" by Siouxsie & The Banshees. Personally, I don't want to think of a world in which "Kiss Them For Me" and "Fear of the Unknown" had never been written. For that reason alone, superstitions are necessary. Good to know The Voice still sucks though. Some things don't change. I see your point, sir, but let me riposte with the words of Stevie Wonder: "When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way."
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Bando
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I've got some regrets!
Posts: 2,431
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Post by Bando on Sept 24, 2007 13:07:10 GMT -5
I don't like the Voice because their idea of reporting is to come to a conclusion and then search for facts supporting that conclusion, rather than the other way around. However, I must take issue with those who think their headline banner is somehow disrespectful to the university. They're not just advocating stepping on the seal, they're trying to show that their somehow edgy or irreverent by disregarding the superstition that stepping on the seal will make you not graduate. Is it a stupid way of making this point? Sure. Is it somehow disrespectful of the university, its students, or its alumni? Not at all. A superstition isn't a tradition, it's an irrational belief. The world would be a much better place if people didn't believe in superstitions, especially at an institute of higher learning, which is supposed to be a paragon of rational thought and knowledge. So I guess Clemson players should stop rubbing Howard's Rock on their way out to the field at Death Valley; as should the Fighting Irish with its "Play like a champion" sign. Because "places of higher learning" would be "a much better place" without superstitions like that? ...I would argue that’s the sort of thing that's good about the college environment. It separates the unique college atmosphere from the largely cold and undifferentiated professional world. Hitting that sign sure has helped them play like champions, eh?
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Post by mrsparkle12 on Sept 24, 2007 13:37:06 GMT -5
Hitting that sign sure has helped them play like champions, eh? Probably to the same extent that kids don't graduate due to stepping on the seal. But you don't see the Notre Dame Observer creating a masthead of a yellow and blue cleat walking over their sign... I don't see how anyone can support this, or think it's remotely funny. Show a recent photo of Victor Page, and photoshop on a tri-corner pirate hat -- I'd laugh at that. Or have a picture of Esh in a recliner. That's funny. Whether you like the tradition/superstition or not, don't have a friggin orange shoe stomping on our university seal. Come on
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,604
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Post by hoyatables on Sept 24, 2007 13:58:55 GMT -5
Hitting that sign sure has helped them play like champions, eh? Probably to the same extent that kids don't graduate due to stepping on the seal. But you don't see the Notre Dame Observer creating a masthead of a yellow and blue cleat walking over their sign... I don't see how anyone can support this, or think it's remotely funny. Show a recent photo of Victor Page, and photoshop on a tri-corner pirate hat -- I'd laugh at that. Or have a picture of Esh in a recliner. That's funny. Whether you like the tradition/superstition or not, don't have a friggin orange shoe stomping on our university seal. Come on Aren't you being a wee bit hyperbolic about this?
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 24, 2007 14:07:01 GMT -5
I love how they couldn't even get their facts right in their blog. they had to have a correction that they in fact did not win first place in sports reporting. They got second. They got first in commentary. Gee whiz you got second out of two papers who report on sports. What an accomplishment. Your entire paper is nothing but commentary, so i'd hope you'd win that category.
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Bando
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I've got some regrets!
Posts: 2,431
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Post by Bando on Sept 25, 2007 1:36:27 GMT -5
Hitting that sign sure has helped them play like champions, eh? Probably to the same extent that kids don't graduate due to stepping on the seal. But you don't see the Notre Dame Observer creating a masthead of a yellow and blue cleat walking over their sign... I don't see how anyone can support this, or think it's remotely funny. Show a recent photo of Victor Page, and photoshop on a tri-corner pirate hat -- I'd laugh at that. Or have a picture of Esh in a recliner. That's funny. Whether you like the tradition/superstition or not, don't have a friggin orange shoe stomping on our university seal. Come on I'm sorry, did you have a point?
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Bando
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I've got some regrets!
Posts: 2,431
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Post by Bando on Sept 25, 2007 1:39:31 GMT -5
Hitting that sign sure has helped them play like champions, eh? Probably to the same extent that kids don't graduate due to stepping on the seal. But you don't see the Notre Dame Observer creating a masthead of a yellow and blue cleat walking over their sign... I don't see how anyone can support this, or think it's remotely funny. Show a recent photo of Victor Page, and photoshop on a tri-corner pirate hat -- I'd laugh at that. Or have a picture of Esh in a recliner. That's funny. Whether you like the tradition/superstition or not, don't have a friggin orange shoe stomping on our university seal. Come on I will step on the seal with an orange shoe for the rest of my life, solely to Edited you off.
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Bando
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I've got some regrets!
Posts: 2,431
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Post by Bando on Sept 25, 2007 1:40:54 GMT -5
Hitting that sign sure has helped them play like champions, eh? Probably to the same extent that kids don't graduate due to stepping on the seal. But you don't see the Notre Dame Observer creating a masthead of a yellow and blue cleat walking over their sign... I don't see how anyone can support this, or think it's remotely funny. Show a recent photo of Victor Page, and photoshop on a tri-corner pirate hat -- I'd laugh at that. Or have a picture of Esh in a recliner. That's funny. Whether you like the tradition/superstition or not, don't have a friggin orange shoe stomping on our university seal. Come on Can I come to your completely ineffectual parties? Please?!?
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 25, 2007 7:14:22 GMT -5
Three separate sarcastic posts all responding to the same previous post?
Seems like a questionable way to make your point(s). I think we've got a Voice writer on our hands here.
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Post by ExcitableBoy on Sept 25, 2007 8:37:40 GMT -5
Three separate sarcastic posts all responding to the same previous post? Seems like a questionable way to make your point(s). I think we've got a Voice writer on our hands here. Wow, that's a low blow.
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