KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,901
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Dec 22, 2007 14:39:16 GMT -5
Freeman is a stud. Great stroke and knows how to finish.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,443
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Post by lichoya68 on Dec 22, 2007 22:12:48 GMT -5
like i said after the kenner hes a tight end who can really also shoot the three adn two and inside and out adn rebound etc. hell be great go hoyas beat au on sat at OUR HOUSE
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,808
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Post by blueandgray on Dec 23, 2007 6:52:06 GMT -5
Time to start the kid. I have to idea why JT3 pulled him in the first half against memphis just after hitting a 3 pointer to put us up by eight. No idea!!!
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,808
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Post by blueandgray on Dec 23, 2007 7:20:34 GMT -5
If starting Austin over PE2 is a concern because of rebounding and interior defense... then as much as I love jessie... start him over Sapp. I just think that if anyone is going to come close to replacing Jeff... its Austin.
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,089
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Post by mapei on Dec 23, 2007 9:11:16 GMT -5
That's an interesting point, b&g. He does have Jeff-like poise out there.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
Posts: 4,995
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Dec 23, 2007 9:31:12 GMT -5
IMO, sapp is still making the same horrible decisions with the ball that he made last year at times. i love his hustle and defense, but he kills us with the 3's early in the clock and the wild drives to the basket. he is supposed to run the team, and he's not doing a good job of that right now.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,808
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Post by blueandgray on Dec 23, 2007 10:21:20 GMT -5
Look, I love Sapp and I usually feel good when the ball is in his hands.... he's our leading assist man. That said, I think you have to lead with your most powerful punch... and our power punch is Freeman. Sapp will act as the ultimate spark plug off the bench with his energy on defense, his toughness, his occasional 3 and drives to the basket, and his rebounding. Sapp will be the first in to replace either Wallace or Freeman.
In the end, there were times in the Memphis game where it didn't look like we had the options on offense. The memphis guards were too quick for wallace and as a result were all over him. The one look at a three pointer he had all game he had to heave as he was rushed. Sapp was off. Jermiah was off.... I was speechless when he shot two airballs from 10 feet out on the same possession. He was ineffective. Vern seemed to be runnung away from the basket in order to avoid being fouled on his shot. At this point, Vern at the free throw line is the equivalent of a turnover for the Hoyas. I thought PE2 struggled in the half court game... although overall he played fairly well. Hibbs had a forgettable game and can go through stretches where he is simply ineffective. Dajuan, other than Freeman, is the one guy who is always a threat whenever he touches the ball. It doesn't matter than he had a poor game from the line... he was taking it hard to the hole... hit a couple of threes... they had to respect him and guard him. In the end, we need a 2nd guy on the court who will always be a threat when the ball is in his hands. That man is Freeman. What else does he have to do to earn a starting role???...he's led our team in scoring the last three games coming off the bench. Start him over Sapp!!!
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,920
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Post by Filo on Dec 23, 2007 12:01:08 GMT -5
I don't get it....We started out extremely well -- the first 10 minutes of the game was all Hoyas.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Dec 23, 2007 12:11:44 GMT -5
If you start Wallace and Freeman together---the defense in backcourt is beyond bad--it's a two end game--I'd just like to see more of Freeman/Summers on court at same time--doesn't mean a thing about the guards--we can go 3 guards a lot in Big East when you look at personnel of teams--and against Memphis--Freeman could've/should've been out there more then he was--he can score--be it driving to basket--(he's strong and takes a bump/finishes/gets shot off) or by taking his sweet jumper (everytime he shoots, I think it's going in).
Patrick played well yesterday--and his FT stroke is 100 times better then during the Alabama game. Really did a nice job for the most part--and plays well in big games.
Roy, Jeremiah, and Sapp were not good yesterday--and we've gone over why.
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Eurostar
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,095
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Post by Eurostar on Dec 23, 2007 16:34:03 GMT -5
I think its counterproductive to discuss the "Freeman should be starting" theme any more. It just doesnt even matter at all who starts, it matters who plays more... and Freeman had like the 3rd most minutes against Memphis. If you're worried about JT3 not recognizing Freeman's capabilities, he clearly does with the minutes that he is playing him on a team that goes 9 deep.
RDF I do agree with the Freeman/Summers together argument, but just not against Memphis. If you put them at the 3/4 then you have no one that can match Dorsey and the other bigs of Memphis, and if you put them at the 2/3 then you have Memphis guards blowing by them all day.
The biggest problem in this game was that their guards were faster than ours and their bigs were more physical than ours. I was really looking for Ewing to step up and neutralize Dorsey with his physicality and tenacity, but it just didnt happen. People can talk about Hibbert being off and Wallace not playing enough minutes or whatever excuse they want on our side of the ball, but the fact of the matter was that Dorsey was the game changer. When he went out with his 2nd foul in the first half we made our run. His strength kept Roy out of the paint on defense, he grabbed so many offensive rebounds, and I'm pretty sure all of his points were on putbacks.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Dec 23, 2007 16:43:36 GMT -5
Yep--Freeman and Summers need to play more at the same time to make team more explosive on offense--but you also adjust your lineup according to the type of game being played-sometimes you need more defense, etc....and some games guys are off--which is why you want depth. Depth is like people talking about "balance" on offense in FB. "Balance" is important for a TEAM--not a game. Sometimes you play someone who can't stop the run--so you shouldn't try to be balanced--you should run.
In basketball "depth" is important when you have guys having off nights--and to keep games in contact/extend leads when you switch it up--but in a one game scenario--it's more important to play the guys who are playing well--and not worry about your rotation/depth--play to win 1 game--yesterday wasn't that scenario--that comes March/April. However--I love having Freeman/Summers on the floor together--they are effective in various ways on offense--and both are good rebounders. Freeman is a better post defender/rebounder then he is on perimeter-and can use his strength/power in his legs to get some more boards then you would think for a player his size.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Dec 24, 2007 15:27:14 GMT -5
Awesome Freeman is already getting starters minutes. And we did not START the game badly against Memphis. The first 15 or so minutes, we played GU ball and were in control of that game. So I don't know that we have to change the starting line-up, or that it would help. Letting the experienced guys -- 5 of our top 6 guys from a FINAL FOUR TEAM -- start the game, makes it a lot easier on the other guys. Less pressure and they get to see what's going on before they step on the court.
I think the worst thing that happened to this team was the RADFORD game. It completely distorted our sense of reality. We don't win by running. We win by playing controlled, GU ball.
This team needs to work on three things. REBOUNDING, REBOUNDING and REBOUNDING! Forget getting out on the break. Get all 5 guys hitting the defensive boards! Boxing out!
And ROY -- Hey, time for the big wake up call. Find that guy that yelled to him from his car a couple years back... you remember, "Roy, you gotta run faster". Get that guy and have him yell "ROY, you gotta play with FIRE! ALL THE TIME! You're the biggest guy out there! Play like it!"
Lastly, find Rick Barry too and get him to teach Vernon how to make the underhanded free throw toss. For those who may not know, Wilt Chamberlain adopted the same method with good results. And Barry retired as the #1 percentage free throw shooter in NBA history with 90%. OK, it looks lame. But not nearly as lame as what Vernon is doing currently.
This team will rebound, er... make that BOUNCE BACK. JT3 has their attention now - and they all know they need a lot of work. Looking forward to another very exciting year of Hoya Hoops!
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,527
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Post by prhoya on Dec 25, 2007 21:40:42 GMT -5
Four things... rebounding, rebounding, FTs and FTs.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Dec 31, 2007 16:23:36 GMT -5
Congratulations to Awesome Freeman who got his first start as a HOYA today and looked good!
Let's see. In JT3's first year, he started Jon and Jeff in (I believe) every single game as freshmen, and Roy in about half the games.
In JT3's second year, I don't believe any freshmen started, but first year man Jessie Sapp got a lot of time as the first guard off the bench.
For his third season, JT3 started DaJuan Summers most of the year -- I think he came off the bench for the first 3 games of so.
Now in his fourth season, JT3 is once again including a freshman in his starting lineup beginning with the 11th game of the season, and the last preseason game. The lineup now looks set to start the BE season. Roy, SUmmers and Freeman up front with Wallace and Sapp in the backcourt. Lots of scoring ability in that lineup, but rebounding is still a question mark.
Off the bench are two guards who can each play the point. Rivers has demonstrated his defensive capability and Wright is starting to demonstrate his too. Wright can also become a formidable scorer off the bench.
Patrick Ewing and Vernon Macklin add athleticism and quickness. If Ewing can duplicate his performance from last year, he'll be adding instant energy and determination too. If these two can bring defense and REBOUNDING!!!... they'll be a terrific bench twosome!
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,875
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Post by vcjack on Dec 31, 2007 17:00:12 GMT -5
I think Austin could potentially have a better year than DaJuan did last year. DaJuan had his best games when his threes were falling from the wings because as the third scoring option (or forth if Jon was getting open or Jessie had a good game) that is where we needed him the most in the offense but when they didn't fall (Ohio State) he would slump. Now he's playing more to his strength by taking up some of Jeff's roles and Austin has assumed his old role. I think Austin's jumpshot/3ball is one of the best on the team. And for as good as a rebounder as PEJr is Austin has plenty of hustle and as we have been shown again and again smaller players with hustle can outrebound the big guys.
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mrsixer123
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,283
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Post by mrsixer123 on Dec 31, 2007 23:16:53 GMT -5
I suggest everyone go back to my post asking who the best 5 are on this roster.
Take note how the roster is starting to mirror my starting 5.
With the talent we have, we can now dictate the flow of the game instead of having to have the traditional starting 5.
I will say it again, the best lineup is:
Pg - chris
Sg - jwall. I have said from day 1 that he better off the ball
C - roy
Pf - summers
Sf - freeman
Make teams adjust to us and then bring in the vets to stabilize and give the opponent yet another team they have to adjust to
As for rebounding, with austin and summers in the game with wallace teams will have to spread their D and as a result they cant pack it in as they can with pat in the game. Spreading the D will make rebounding much easier
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mrsixer123
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,283
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Post by mrsixer123 on Dec 31, 2007 23:44:39 GMT -5
Look, I love Sapp and I usually feel good when the ball is in his hands.... he's our leading assist man. That said, I think you have to lead with your most powerful punch... and our power punch is Freeman. Sapp will act as the ultimate spark plug off the bench with his energy on defense, his toughness, his occasional 3 and drives to the basket, and his rebounding. Sapp will be the first in to replace either Wallace or Freeman. In the end, there were times in the Memphis game where it didn't look like we had the options on offense. The memphis guards were too quick for wallace and as a result were all over him. The one look at a three pointer he had all game he had to heave as he was rushed. Sapp was off. Jermiah was off.... I was speechless when he shot two airballs from 10 feet out on the same possession. He was ineffective. Vern seemed to be runnung away from the basket in order to avoid being fouled on his shot. At this point, Vern at the free throw line is the equivalent of a turnover for the Hoyas. I thought PE2 struggled in the half court game... although overall he played fairly well. Hibbs had a forgettable game and can go through stretches where he is simply ineffective. Dajuan, other than Freeman, is the one guy who is always a threat whenever he touches the ball. It doesn't matter than he had a poor game from the line... he was taking it hard to the hole... hit a couple of threes... they had to respect him and guard him. In the end, we need a 2nd guy on the court who will always be a threat when the ball is in his hands. That man is Freeman. What else does he have to do to earn a starting role???...he's led our team in scoring the last three games coming off the bench. Start him over Sapp!!! I have said this for years to much opposition!! Now people are finally seeing the light!!! Sapp will be a major reason we make it to the final 4, but he is not the best option to receive more minutes over austin or chris. He is a glue guy, and no team wins titles w/o that type of player. However, as a glue guy his minutes have to given in certain situations. Jwall on the other hand is a proven big shot 2 guard that should be on the floor until he is about to fall out simply bc teams have to respect his shot thus opening up the D to make things easier for Roy or whomever is at the 4 and 5. Yes, jwall will get beat off the dribble (yet another point i have made for years to much opposition) but his positives far out weigh his short comings.. The bottom line is this, fans need to throw out the "traditional" lineups and let coach play the best 5 according to the moment at hand
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Post by sbgorms on Jan 1, 2008 13:19:46 GMT -5
Agree, except for Chris. He's going to be nasty one day, but he is not the solution over Sapp right now. He alternates between great and boneheaded, and until the former substantially outweighs the latter, I'll take Sapp over him any day of the week.
But that's not to say that he won't be the answer next year.
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Post by strummer8526 on Jan 1, 2008 13:40:43 GMT -5
Agree, except for Chris. He's going to be nasty one day, but he is not the solution over Sapp right now. He alternates between great and boneheaded, and until the former substantially outweighs the latter, I'll take Sapp over him any day of the week. But that's not to say that he won't be the answer next year. Contrary to what sixer says, you're definitely correct. Sapp makes a bad pass or two a game and maybe drives into traffic once. (And against AU, his only bad passes were lobs into Roy. If we want the guards to feed the big man more, then there will obviously be a few more bad passes into him.) Chris runs all over the place. His steals are incredible, but he sometimes pulls himself out of position. More importantly, his offensive strategy of "run as fast as possible towards the baseline and see what happens" is totally at odds with our offense. He needs to settle into our offense, become more efficient and a better passer. Until he can make his teammates better like Jesse can, I'll take Sapp every game.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,808
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 1, 2008 14:06:05 GMT -5
Look, I love Sapp and I usually feel good when the ball is in his hands.... he's our leading assist man. That said, I think you have to lead with your most powerful punch... and our power punch is Freeman. Sapp will act as the ultimate spark plug off the bench with his energy on defense, his toughness, his occasional 3 and drives to the basket, and his rebounding. Sapp will be the first in to replace either Wallace or Freeman. In the end, there were times in the Memphis game where it didn't look like we had the options on offense. The memphis guards were too quick for wallace and as a result were all over him. The one look at a three pointer he had all game he had to heave as he was rushed. Sapp was off. Jermiah was off.... I was speechless when he shot two airballs from 10 feet out on the same possession. He was ineffective. Vern seemed to be runnung away from the basket in order to avoid being fouled on his shot. At this point, Vern at the free throw line is the equivalent of a turnover for the Hoyas. I thought PE2 struggled in the half court game... although overall he played fairly well. Hibbs had a forgettable game and can go through stretches where he is simply ineffective. Dajuan, other than Freeman, is the one guy who is always a threat whenever he touches the ball. It doesn't matter than he had a poor game from the line... he was taking it hard to the hole... hit a couple of threes... they had to respect him and guard him. In the end, we need a 2nd guy on the court who will always be a threat when the ball is in his hands. That man is Freeman. What else does he have to do to earn a starting role???...he's led our team in scoring the last three games coming off the bench. Start him over Sapp!!! I have said this for years to much opposition!! Now people are finally seeing the light!!! Sapp will be a major reason we make it to the final 4, but he is not the best option to receive more minutes over austin or chris. He is a glue guy, and no team wins titles w/o that type of player. However, as a glue guy his minutes have to given in certain situations. Jwall on the other hand is a proven big shot 2 guard that should be on the floor until he is about to fall out simply bc teams have to respect his shot thus opening up the D to make things easier for Roy or whomever is at the 4 and 5. Yes, jwall will get beat off the dribble (yet another point i have made for years to much opposition) but his positives far out weigh his short comings.. The bottom line is this, fans need to throw out the "traditional" lineups and let coach play the best 5 according to the moment at hand I am logging in from a remote Spa in Sedona, Arizona and am kust getting to learn some of the details about yesterday's game. All I have to say is that JT3 is an absolute stud for tinkering with the line up the way he has and moving Freeman into a starting role just as BE conference play is about to begin. It had to be done despite upsetting some of the traditionalists out there. I think Freeman will be starting over either Sapp or Ewing, depending on who we play. Against a smaller team like Fordham... he relaces Ewing, if we were to play a team like UCLA or NC... it would be for Jesse. That said, Mr. Sixer is right on when he calls Jesse the glue of the team and says you need a player like Jesse to get you to the FF. That doesn't mean he needs to play 30 minutes a game or start however to be effective. I liken him to Gene Smith in many ways... the guy who had the kind of toughness to do whatever it takes to win. Gene didn't start, yet without him we never get past Kentucky to play Houston in the finals. Sapp represents the same energy to these Hoyas and Gene did to the '84 version. With regard to Chris, I'm not sure its critical that he starts this year... that said, when its all said and done, Chris could be one of the best 4 year guards we've ever had at the hilltop. Go Freeman, Go Hoyas in '08.
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