GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
|
Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jun 5, 2007 13:44:07 GMT -5
I didn't say Durant didn't warrant a top pick, though the Larry Bird comparison is absurd. Durant is obviously the number two pick, regardless of combine. I find it a bit disturbing though that he's not that athletic. I compared Durant to Rashard Lewis at one time. I think he's got more drive and a better handle than Lewis, but it will be interesting to see how Durant develops as a complete player (i.e. defense). Absurd? First freshman to lead the nation in scoring and rebounding and sweep all the PoY awards and it's absurd? Durant just wrecked all of college basketball like nobody ever before and did it as freshman. But a Bird comparison is absurd and "slightly better than a second-round high school pick" is more accurate? Alright then.
|
|
jester
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,008
|
Post by jester on Jun 5, 2007 13:50:02 GMT -5
I think its interesting to note that Brandon Bowman led all players in bench reps last year, and Jeff Green led all at his position this year. Kudos to the strength and conditioning coach...
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,462
|
Post by TC on Jun 5, 2007 13:53:07 GMT -5
I like Durant, but I wouldn't compare him to one of the ten best players in NBA history right now.
|
|
joey0403p
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,586
|
Post by joey0403p on Jun 5, 2007 14:18:13 GMT -5
This numbers hopefully do Jeff well in the "not that athletic camp". It also signals to me that plenty of schools will be interested in him and the only reason he comes back now are 1 - the team that wants him is a bad situation. or 2 - he decides he wants to spend another year in college.
|
|
jacko
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
GET SOME
Posts: 499
|
Post by jacko on Jun 5, 2007 15:05:20 GMT -5
I'm not calling Durant the next Larry Bird yet. Not until he passes Adam Morrison, haha. So I don't think it's any concern that he's not a freak athlete. He's a freak player, and despite being less athletic than everyone else he was playing with this year, nobody really noticed inferior athleticism on his part. Did they? Someone said that he has one of the highest ceilings as well in terms of athleticism. I don't think it's a major factor though.
|
|
GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
|
Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jun 5, 2007 15:16:53 GMT -5
I'm not calling Durant the next Larry Bird yet. Not until he passes Adam Morrison, haha. So I don't think it's any concern that he's not a freak athlete. He's a freak player, and despite being less athletic than everyone else he was playing with this year, nobody really noticed inferior athleticism on his part. Did they? Someone said that he has one of the highest ceilings as well in terms of athleticism. I don't think it's a major factor though. That's the funny thing, Adam Morrison was nowhere near the talent of Durant and got the Bird comparison. Of course he's not Larry yet. But as a draft pick, he's not going to be. What he is, I think, is the guy you'd kick yourself for not taking.
|
|
|
Post by dajuan on Jun 5, 2007 15:35:54 GMT -5
I'm not calling Durant the next Larry Bird yet. Not until he passes Adam Morrison, haha. So I don't think it's any concern that he's not a freak athlete. He's a freak player, and despite being less athletic than everyone else he was playing with this year, nobody really noticed inferior athleticism on his part. Did they? Someone said that he has one of the highest ceilings as well in terms of athleticism. I don't think it's a major factor though. That's the funny thing, Adam Morrison was nowhere near the talent of Durant and got the Bird comparison. Of course he's not Larry yet. But as a draft pick, he's not going to be. What he is, I think, is the guy you'd kick yourself for not taking. Morrison was likened to Larry Bird because he was a white, terribly mustached wing.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 5, 2007 15:42:55 GMT -5
When did I say he'd be slightly better than Lewis? I said, and I quote, " compared Durant to Rashard Lewis at one time. I think he's got more drive and a better handle than Lewis..."
Rashard Lewis with a work ethic and a handle is a star. He's already a barely sub-all star player. I'm not quite sure what getting drafted in the second round has to do with anything -- Rashard has quite enough actual NBA history that his draft status is pointless to bring up unless you are deliberately trying to be deceptive.
As for your line -- "Durant just wrecked all of college basketball like nobody ever before" -- learn some freaking history.
Larry Bird scored 32 ppg as a freshman. And he did it in an era when almost no one jumped to the pros immediately. He shot over 50% from the field. He led his team to a Final Four -- and that was Indiana State! Magic went to 17, 7 and 7. Chris Jackson scored 30.2 ppg his freshman year at LSU.
Many freshmen have had years like Durant. Major media just has a collective brain fart if it didn't happen in the last year. Most of these freshmen didn't have the benefit of not facing the Top 10 in class in front of them, the Top 20 in the junior class and at least the Top 30 in the senior class.
|
|
hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
|
Post by hifigator on Jun 5, 2007 16:37:35 GMT -5
jeff's body fat is unbelievable for someone his size and stength..his numbers are VERY impressive..too bad this isn't the NFL draft or he would have sky rocketed himself into the top 5. All of his numbers are pretty damn impressive. I'm not sure how they come up with that aggregate ranking. Some of the higher ranking guys don't look all that impressive, while other studs aren't ranked as high for some reason. Whoever pointed out Al Thornton and his verticle is definitely onto something. That guy is a beast and it is hard for me to say that with my loathing of the Seminoles. He is flat out a stud. From an athleticism standpoint, I think that Horford, Jeff Green and Al Thornton are probably the cream of the crop. I was kind of amazed that Joakim Noah had 4.8% body fat. That must have included the gel that dripped down from his ponytail.
|
|
HealyHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Victory!!!
Posts: 1,059
|
Post by HealyHoya on Jun 5, 2007 16:39:31 GMT -5
For example, see Tracy McGrady. The guy came in as a stick, but a few years into the league with a proper regimen, he was benching upwards of 300. Durant will be fine, he's a lanky dude with long arms and that kills your ability to bench. ummm...benching 300lbs and routinely missing huge chunks of the season because his body wears down. I think this is a bigger deal than people are making it. Perhaps the single biggest reason -- after his sick skill -- LeBron stepped into the NBA and on day one was a star had to due with his NBA-ready body. Look at Lebron. Guy's yoked. Durant may have similar skill level but he lacks the body. Now, I'd take Durant with the number 2 pick. Easy. Heck, I'd take him with the number one any other year. But this is a big deal. For god's sake, Mike Conley, Jr. -- who doesn't even weight 185lbs -- benched with no problem. Joakim Noah, whose arms gotta be 45 ft long, benched with no problem. I like Durant but the kid must get stronger to play in the league.
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Jun 5, 2007 17:24:28 GMT -5
Good numbers for Jeff. Points toward NBA...
|
|
|
Post by stafford72 on Jun 5, 2007 18:35:28 GMT -5
Not that Adam Morrison needs me to defend him, but he was an outstanding college player who was compared to Bird for more than his skin color. He also had a good rookie year on a very bad ball club. He could be outstanding on a more competitive team. Time will tell.
|
|
Loyal Hoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 554
|
Post by Loyal Hoya on Jun 5, 2007 19:36:45 GMT -5
Jeff's biggest weakness appeared to be his lane agility time. I might have expected him to show better lateral quickness. It seems like he drew his fair share of charges this year, but maybe that was just a sign of his intelligence and discipline as much as he lateral movement.
Eyeballing the scores, I would guess that Jason Smith might have helped himself out the most.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 5, 2007 19:43:15 GMT -5
Jeff's biggest weakness appeared to be his lane agility time. I might have expected him to show better lateral quickness. It seems like he drew his fair share of charges this year, but maybe that was just a sign of his intelligence and discipline as much as he lateral movement. Eyeballing the scores, I would guess that Jason Smith might have helped himself out the most. I think also that Nick Young just pushed himself to the number one SG in the draft. Not sure that says much, but measuring at a legit 6'5" while other players like Thad Young (6'5.5") measure barely taller but are ticketed for SF.
|
|
chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,314
Member is Online
|
Post by chep3 on Jun 5, 2007 20:25:08 GMT -5
oh i definitely agree healy, he does have to get stronger, but i just don't think that its that big of a concern at this point in time. mcgrady's injuries have a lot to do with simply having a bad back (and i can attest to this as someone with similar ailments), its just a degenerative condition. and there's no reason to believe that he won't be able to improve this way. first all, the kid, by all accounts, is singularly obsessed with basketball, training constantly since he was 10. i think he has the mindset of a jordan or a kobe, that hypercompetitivity that drove both of them to success. second, while you might be right that what durant did wasn't unprecedented, it has easily been the best performance by a freshman in a long time and the kid was just unreal. he scored on all types of defenders in all types of situations. i have no doubt that, weak bench and all, this kid is going to be lights out in the nba.
|
|
PDRHoya99
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 766
|
Post by PDRHoya99 on Jun 6, 2007 0:11:45 GMT -5
Z i think he has the mindset of a jordan or a kobe, that hypercompetitivity that drove both of them to success. If that was the case you'd think he'd find the energy to outjump Aaron Gray. These numbers screamed that he phoned this one in. Does that mean he'll do the same once something real is on the line? Probably not, but it certainly doesn't seem like something that a hypercompetitive person would do. The only college game I watched him play all the way thru was their loss in the tournament, and he looked plenty freshmen like in that game. Yeah he got his points, but he also got outhustled on numerous occasions.
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,427
|
Post by MCIGuy on Jun 6, 2007 4:19:02 GMT -5
I don't know how anyone can think LeBron coasts. He is not a gunner. He has the instincts of a passer and waits for the game to come to him. Anyway....here's an outstanding article from draftexpress that puts all these pre-draft numbers in perspective. draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2096
|
|
|
Post by hoyastrong on Jun 6, 2007 8:18:41 GMT -5
all I will ever remember adam morrison for is crying like a baby and flailing his arms and legs on the court when they lost...HA
|
|
|
Post by ExcitableBoy on Jun 6, 2007 8:32:07 GMT -5
I don't know how anyone can think LeBron coasts. He is not a gunner. He has the instincts of a passer and waits for the game to come to him. Anyway....here's an outstanding article from draftexpress that puts all these pre-draft numbers in perspective. draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2096I don't really get that article... since there are sometimes good basketball players who perform poorly at the combine we should scrap the whole thing?? I mean the draft is necessarily a comparative process and having one standardized (and objective) set of measurements somehow inhibits this process? What's the alternative? Each team takes their own measurements of each player, wasting far more time and money? NBA teams draft players based on their purported height and weight listed in the college media guide? Just because there are some results that are inconsistent with on-court performance doesn't mean it's a horrible system that needs to be scrapped immediately. It is merely one piece of the evaluation puzzle. Get over yourself DraftExpress.
|
|
GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
|
Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jun 6, 2007 8:47:05 GMT -5
When did I say he'd be slightly better than Lewis? I said, and I quote, " compared Durant to Rashard Lewis at one time. I think he's got more drive and a better handle than Lewis..." Rashard Lewis with a work ethic and a handle is a star. He's already a barely sub-all star player. I'm not quite sure what getting drafted in the second round has to do with anything -- Rashard has quite enough actual NBA history that his draft status is pointless to bring up unless you are deliberately trying to be deceptive. As for your line -- "Durant just wrecked all of college basketball like nobody ever before" -- learn some freaking history. Larry Bird scored 32 ppg as a freshman. And he did it in an era when almost no one jumped to the pros immediately. He shot over 50% from the field. He led his team to a Final Four -- and that was Indiana State! Magic went to 17, 7 and 7. Chris Jackson scored 30.2 ppg his freshman year at LSU. Many freshmen have had years like Durant. Major media just has a collective brain fart if it didn't happen in the last year. Most of these freshmen didn't have the benefit of not facing the Top 10 in class in front of them, the Top 20 in the junior class and at least the Top 30 in the senior class. Many freshman have received every major award in college basketball, that's for sure. Here's the list: Kevin Durant Well so much for "freakin' history." First freshman individually to win NABC and Naismith. Bird didn't play his freshman year by the way, he left IU. The reason I mention Rashard Lewis' draft position is not to "be deceptive" it's to illustrate that we're comparing these kids ON DRAFT DAY. He's not Larry Bird 1986, but he's just walked into major college basketball and was IMMEDIATELY the best player in the country. In an odd twist, two of the three freshman you use to illustrate freshmen who have had great seasons are top ten players all time. The third played the much harder to project guard spot and was 6'0 tall. Yet somehow, it's absurd for us to compare them to Durant? Come on, I know you really want to defend your "absurd" comment, and everyone can disagree that Durant has that amount of upside but you can't say the comparison is crazy. Durant was a better freshman than 'Melo and 'Melo is a superstar. Does that pass the "absurdity" test? Can we say that without offending anyone's delicate Bird sensibilities?
|
|