Where's Tyler?

[bubbrubbhoya]

Tyler Crawford gets 1 minute today (apparently). Why isn't he playing any more. Was he really set back that much by his bout with strepp? If so, it's really too bad.

[harlemhoya]

bubbrubbhoya said:

Tyler Crawford gets 1 minute today (apparently). Why isn't he playing any more. Was he really set back that much by his bout with strepp? If so, it's really too bad.

he is not that nice

[GIGAFAN99]

What has happened to Tyler is his skill set (hard cuts, three-point shooting, and defense) can now be done by so many players on this team that despite his being able to do those very well (we're talking about a guy shooting 45% overall and 39% from three here), his minutes are not in high demand. Rivers, despite being worse at all those things can penetrate, handle, and pass which we do not have an excess of so he's getting those minutes.

Put it this way, in conference play if we want a guy who can shoot 45% overall and 35% or better from three we already have five of those guys (Green, Wallace, Ewing, Summers, and Sapp). That's pretty much everyone who predominantly faces the basket. So dare I say it, but what Tyler can do almost everyone on this team can do and all of them are either bigger or quicker or better than TC.

It's a great problem for the Hoyas that one of your captains and leaders is actually having trouble finding minutes despite having such a solid game. And TC will continue to be the JTIII-proclaimed heart and soul of the team even if he's only getting a handful of minutes a game. So I don't know how much his role has diminished even as his minutes have declined.

[Highsmith]

Good analysis......I think in games where things are going right, we won't see much of Tyler for the reasons you stated. The times for Tyler are when the team needs a good kick in the butt or if one of the other players you mentioned is having a poor game. As long as he can keep a positive attitude through it all, that is a very valuable commodity to have on the team. It stinks for him not to play more, but speaks highly of him to be in the roll he is in and still be considered the heart and soul.

[hoyalove4ever]

Good points...but I'd still like to see TC get more minutes.

Jr. looked pretty nice yesterday.

[lichoya68]

I WONDER IF TYLERS ILLNESS AND GREAT WEIGHT LOSS AND MISSING PRACTICE AND GAMES REALLY PUT HIM BACK HES A GREAT KID AND WILL KEEP WORKING HARD AND I BELIEVE WILL CONTRIBUTE MORE AS WE GO ON.. GO TYLER GO EVERYBODY BEAT THE JOHNNIES. ;D ;D ;D

[Eurostar]

gigafan99 said:

What has happened to Tyler is his skill set (hard cuts, three-point shooting, and defense) can now be done by so many players on this team that despite his being able to do those very well (we're talking about a guy shooting 45% overall and 39% from three here), his minutes are not in high demand. Rivers, despite being worse at all those things can penetrate, handle, and pass which we do not have an excess of so he's getting those minutes.

Put it this way, in conference play if we want a guy who can shoot 45% overall and 35% or better from three we already have five of those guys (Green, Wallace, Ewing, Summers, and Sapp). That's pretty much everyone who predominantly faces the basket. So dare I say it, but what Tyler can do almost everyone on this team can do and all of them are either bigger or quicker or better than TC.

It's a great problem for the Hoyas that one of your captains and leaders is actually having trouble finding minutes despite having such a solid game. And TC will continue to be the JTIII-proclaimed heart and soul of the team even if he's only getting a handful of minutes a game. So I don't know how much his role has diminished even as his minutes have declined.

You cant use those stats to justify Tyler not playing. Especially the 3pt stats because he is only 12 for 31. If you take away that first game and look at only "post-strep" stats, he's 11 for 23 which is 47% which would be right behind Ewing and Wallace for best on the team. Also 53% from the field overall which is better than all but Macklin, Hibbert and Ewing.

Look, I dont know how many games youve watched Giga.. and even if youve watched some you might not have seen much of Tyler (i guess thats the point of this thread). But to me, the kid makes things happen with and without the ball. Here are the reasons why:
1. He's probably the best defender on the team. He's only 6'3 but you can match him up with the quick PG or the small SF. Maybe Cincy wouldnt have gotten so many open looks from behind the arc if TC was playing.
2. He shoots the 3 about as well as anyone. We thought we would need this early in the year but it turns out that Sapp and Summers have gotten much better from behind the arc so its probably a less important factor. The SF in our offense gets a lot of opportunities to shoot 3's especially in the corners (last year DJ and Bowman), and Summers has proven that he can hit that shot (35%).
3. He has a "nose for the ball". I think this is where he makes his case. People say nose for the ball but how do you define it? Stats dont measure this but I'll give you a couple examples. First, he cuts better than anyone on the team. We all say we love the Princeton offense so why dont play our best cutter? Tyler definitely has the most backdoors received to minutes ratio of anyone by far (id like to see that stat). Getting backdoored results in an easy layup, sags the defense a bit to open up the 3pter, and is just plain demeaning. Second is an example from the Depaul game. In TCs first minute on the court he is defending on the perimeter and a shot goes up. He watches the ball and crashes the boards to get an offensive rebound underneath, then passes it out to an open Green (i think?) who hits a 3. He has 7 more rebounds than Macklin who has played 35 more minutes than him. And I thought we played VMack for his defense and rebounding?
4. Despite being a worse ballhandler than Sapp or Wallace, he breaks the press better than both of them. In intramural middle school basketball, my coach told me 2 things about breaking the press. First dont catch a pass, take one dribble and then pick it up. Second, make passes quickly before the defense has a chance to adjust. Unfortunately, Green, Wallace and Sapp are often guilty of doing both. When Tyler played against Depaul we got pressed and SHOCKINGLY he was able to work the ball up the court with quick passes as opposed to timid dribbling towards the sidelines.

I have more to say but I have a test tomorrow. I understand that he doesnt drive as well as Sapp, Rivers, Wallace or Summers, but honestly we have a lot of guys who can drive. Our offense isnt based on driving. Its based on first cutting to the basket and getting easy layups which will open up the court for other things to happen. All Im saying is the kid had a huge buzz during the summer, he started in the first game of the season and now he cant get more than single digits in minutes played for any big east game (besides ND)? What happened? He seems like the same player.... a player that could contribute a lot to this team.

[prhoya]

minionhoya said:

gigafan99 said:

All Im saying is the kid had a huge buzz during the summer, he started in the first game of the season and now he cant get more than single digits in minutes played for any big east game (besides ND)? What happened? He seems like the same player.... a player that could contribute a lot to this team.

You're right. Going from starting to 1 minute a game is strange. What happened? We know he can contribute good minutes and play.

[RockawayHoya]

I had personally hoped we would have been able to sustain the huge lead we built in the first half and put the game out of reach in order to get TC some more minutes without taking them away from Rivers, but Cinci kept it too close for comfort for most of the afternoon. I think it's a problem JTIII is trying to deal with; he has to decide whether or not he needs Rivers or Crawford worse towards the end of the year and who to give minutes to now in order to develop and hopefully find a rhythm, and I think despite what TC can bring to the table, Rivers will be needed more and thus he's getting the bulk of the minutes allotted for guards off the bench.

But, having said all that, I'd love to see more of TC on the court. He's been making something positive happen in his limited minutes in just about every game I've seen over the past month.

[Eurostar]

rockawayhoya said:

I had personally hoped we would have been able to sustain the huge lead we built in the first half and put the game out of reach in order to get TC some more minutes without taking them away from Rivers, but Cinci kept it too close for comfort for most of the afternoon. I think it's a problem JTIII is trying to deal with; he has to decide whether or not he needs Rivers or Crawford worse towards the end of the year and who to give minutes to now in order to develop and hopefully find a rhythm, and I think despite what TC can bring to the table, Rivers will be needed more and thus he's getting the bulk of the minutes allotted for guards off the bench.

But, having said all that, I'd love to see more of TC on the court. He's been making something positive happen in his limited minutes in just about every game I've seen over the past month.

I agree 100% that this is what JT3 is thinking... but I guess i just dont agree with his logic. One of the subplots of this season is that our go to guys are getting a TON of minutes. Yesterday Green 39 minutes with Wallace and Sapp at 35 each... in a game won by 15 points.

Green is averaging 34min, and Wallace and Sapp 33 min per game in conference play. This is too much especially since we have won 5 of those 7 games by double digits. I think our team wore down last year in the end of games, and we're not doing much to change this years story. I'm especially concerned about our guards. For example in the Cincy game, Wallace and Sapp had 35min each and Rivers had 10min at guard spots. Why not give Wallace and Sapp 30min each, Rivers 10 and Crawford 10? I understand that some of these double digit games might be too close for comfort near the end to do a complete line substitution... Im not calling for that. Just work the other guys in over the course of the game. It seems that we do that in the first half, and then go almost the entire 2nd half playing only the starters. It might be nitpicking a few minutes here or there.. but I just think that we had an opportunity in the soft part of our schedule to spread out the minutes. Now we have the tougher stretch coming up so hopefully our starters will be ready for things like the Marquette/WVU saturday/monday turnaround.

[GIGAFAN99]

minionhoya said:

rockawayhoya said:

I had personally hoped we would have been able to sustain the huge lead we built in the first half and put the game out of reach in order to get TC some more minutes without taking them away from Rivers, but Cinci kept it too close for comfort for most of the afternoon. I think it's a problem JTIII is trying to deal with; he has to decide whether or not he needs Rivers or Crawford worse towards the end of the year and who to give minutes to now in order to develop and hopefully find a rhythm, and I think despite what TC can bring to the table, Rivers will be needed more and thus he's getting the bulk of the minutes allotted for guards off the bench.

But, having said all that, I'd love to see more of TC on the court. He's been making something positive happen in his limited minutes in just about every game I've seen over the past month.

I agree 100% that this is what JT3 is thinking... but I guess i just dont agree with his logic. One of the subplots of this season is that our go to guys are getting a TON of minutes. Yesterday Green 39 minutes with Wallace and Sapp at 35 each... in a game won by 15 points.

Green is averaging 34min, and Wallace and Sapp 33 min per game in conference play. This is too much especially since we have won 5 of those 7 games by double digits. I think our team wore down last year in the end of games, and we're not doing much to change this years story. I'm especially concerned about our guards. For example in the Cincy game, Wallace and Sapp had 35min each and Rivers had 10min at guard spots. Why not give Wallace and Sapp 30min each, Rivers 10 and Crawford 10? I understand that some of these double digit games might be too close for comfort near the end to do a complete line substitution... Im not calling for that. Just work the other guys in over the course of the game. It seems that we do that in the first half, and then go almost the entire 2nd half playing only the starters. It might be nitpicking a few minutes here or there.. but I just think that we had an opportunity in the soft part of our schedule to spread out the minutes. Now we have the tougher stretch coming up so hopefully our starters will be ready for things like the Marquette/WVU saturday/monday turnaround.

I don't know if that's too much. Our next game is Thursday. That's plenty of turnaround time. Versus Rutgers with Seton Hall looming, only Sapp played a ton of minutes (36) and versus ND with 'Nova two days later, only Wallace (again 36) played more than 30. I think it's situational based on the schedule.

I love TC, don't get me wrong. And I'd love him to be out there more but we're really talking about the distribution of about 16-20 minutes we have at backup guard. Right now JR is getting most of them. If we were running and gunning there would be more minutes up for grabs. We all have preferences for how to divide the backup guard minutes but I don't think it's crazy that right now it's JR getting 13 and TC getting 6. I don't think if we flip-flopped those anyone would complain either. It's just how the staff is choosing to play it right now.

But with our pace, I absolutely think we should keep the rotation tight when we can and versus Cincy with a 5-day layoff ahead, we can play our guys 33-34 minutes without worry.

[HealyHoya]

We're 15-5 (5-2) and, with the exception of Old Dominion, don't have a bad loss this year. We're on a clear upswing at a time when typical BEC powers (UConn, 'Cuse) are struggling. We have a tight rotation that plays together very well on the offensive end. While there may be some credence to the argument that Crawford could contribute a needed spark or hard-nosed intensity that we lack of the defensive end, faulting III for his rotation at this point is rather ballsy.

Look, Tay Spann probably has something to contribute (another banger down low, good rebounding) and more minutes for Macklin would be great (showtime dunks, shotblocks, more experience).

Tyler is a great Hoya but this "controversy" is a non-issue.

[PopeJohn2]

healyhoya said:

We're 15-5 (5-2) and, with the exception of Old Dominion, don't have a bad loss this year.

odu was an especially ridiculously bad loss.
nova and oregon at home were just regular bad losses.
duke was a bad loss given that we are a superior team but werent ready at the time. we would beat them now if we played them.

[FormerHoya]

popejohn2 said:

healyhoya said:

We're 15-5 (5-2) and, with the exception of Old Dominion, don't have a bad loss this year.

odu was an especially ridiculously bad loss.
nova and oregon at home were just regular bad losses.
duke was a bad loss given that we are a superior team but werent ready at the time. we would beat them now if we played them.

So only the loss to Pitt on the road wasn't a bad loss.

Good thing your expectations aren't too high. Hopefully we win the whole tourney, otherwise it's all a disappointment to you.

[OldHoyafan]

Eurostar wrote "When Tyler played against Depaul we got pressed and SHOCKINGLY he was able to work the ball up the court with quick passes as opposed to timid dribbling towards the sidelines."
While I agree with all your other points on why TC should be getting more playing time, I disagree that the one or two times TC broke the prees with a pass, means that he could handle the press all the time with a pass. I love TC's game also and believe he brings a lot of the "attitude" this team sorely needs to the game. But the sole reason Rivers is getting more playing time is his ability to dribble when pressured. If you will go back and watch the Depaul game you will see TC not dribble the ball out front at all. He immediately passes to the next guy before a guard can put pressure on him. TC just does not have the handle to handle presuring guards out front. When the Hoyas can go small and not have to worry about the press, TC will be able to play small forward and get more minutes. Unfortunately that may not be until nthe Hoyas get into the NCAA tournament. I don't see any team in the BE with slow guards who can't pressure.

[Eurostar]

oldhoyafan said:

Eurostar wrote "When Tyler played against Depaul we got pressed and SHOCKINGLY he was able to work the ball up the court with quick passes as opposed to timid dribbling towards the sidelines."
While I agree with all your other points on why TC should be getting more playing time, I disagree that the one or two times TC broke the prees with a pass, means that he could handle the press all the time with a pass. I love TC's game also and believe he brings a lot of the "attitude" this team sorely needs to the game. But the sole reason Rivers is getting more playing time is his ability to dribble when pressured. If you will go back and watch the Depaul game you will see TC not dribble the ball out front at all. He immediately passes to the next guy before a guard can put pressure on him. TC just does not have the handle to handle presuring guards out front. When the Hoyas can go small and not have to worry about the press, TC will be able to play small forward and get more minutes. Unfortunately that may not be until nthe Hoyas get into the NCAA tournament. I don't see any team in the BE with slow guards who can't pressure.

Well... youre seeing the same things as I am, but i guess we're just interpreting them differently. This team has problems in the half court set when they hold the ball too much and are too deliberate in looking to make an entry pass into Roy. If a guy like Sapp has the ball on the wing and holds it for 5 seconds while looking for a way to pass it into Roy (which happens A LOT), chances are the ball will get intercepted or the defense will immediately double Roy. I think we play better and make better entry passes (because they are more available) when the ball is moved around the perimeter quickly to get the defense (zone or man) out of sync. I think Tyler recognizes this and thats why he makes quick passes around the perimeter... not because he's scared to dribble the ball.

[TrueHoyaBlue]

oldhoyafan said:

When the Hoyas can go small and not have to worry about the press, TC will be able to play small forward and get more minutes. Unfortunately that may not be until nthe Hoyas get into the NCAA tournament. I don't see any team in the BE with slow guards who can't pressure.

I see one in the Big East (Rutgers) but unfortunately, we already played them.

[HealyHoya]

popejohn2 said:

healyhoya said:

We're 15-5 (5-2) and, with the exception of Old Dominion, don't have a bad loss this year.

odu was an especially ridiculously bad loss.
nova and oregon at home were just regular bad losses.
duke was a bad loss given that we are a superior team but werent ready at the time. we would beat them now if we played them.

Respect your opinion, but that's just wrong. Bad losses are bad losses -- ODU. Losing to a top-10 team (Oregon) with a national player of the year candidate isn't a bad loss. Losing to Duke at Cameron, however "bad" they may be this year, isn't a bad loss.

We all hate to lose (especially at home) but 'Nova, Oregon and Duke aren't bad losses.

[TBird41]

minionhoya said:

3. He has a "nose for the ball". I think this is where he makes his case. People say nose for the ball but how do you define it? Stats dont measure this but I'll give you a couple examples. First, he cuts better than anyone on the team. We all say we love the Princeton offense so why dont play our best cutter? Tyler definitely has the most backdoors received to minutes ratio of anyone by far (id like to see that stat). Getting backdoored results in an easy layup, sags the defense a bit to open up the 3pter, and is just plain demeaning.

Since when does a team with a 7'2 center making 71% of his shots want the defense to sag more?

[Oh My!]

My perspective dates back to when Marc left the team. When he departed, I felt strongly (& still do) that Tyler & PE would get the majority of his minutes. What I did not foresee was the increase in minutes for Jeremiah (by the way, my best friend sat next to his mom on the flight back to Floriday this morning).

I really feel that the factors determining Tyler's minutes are: how the team is playing fundamentally and the types of players we need to defend on the opposition. We can all agree that PE is best-suited to go in when a taller, longer player needs to be locked down, & PE has done an excellent job the past few weeks. How many times has he grabbed a rebound & athletically thrown it off an opponent as he is falling out of bounds?

The aspect of fundamentals is currently driving the decrease in minutes, too. The team is playing very smart offensively (12 TO's in 2 games), and we don't seem to need the "stabilizing force" that Tyler brings to the court. Weeks ago, our ball prtection & shot selection seemed to level out with #22 in the game. Now, Jonathan is shooting great from the perimeter, Jessie has cut down his TO's, and Jeremiah is doing a fine job breaking presses (especially against DePaul). Also, all 3 guards are at least a tad quicker defensively than TC. Still, when we need him, he will surely be there. He is still, in my opinion either the #1 or #2 rebounder on the team (PE likely #1), at least in terms of technique. He makes good basketball decisions and that is extremely important.

Right now, though, others are providing what he can. I would never say that they are better, faster, bigger, but the team is doing just fine. TC is still our captain (& rightly so), and when #22 is called, he'll be ready.