hoyasexy
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Actively engaged in extramarital saxa
Posts: 794
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Post by hoyasexy on Nov 6, 2006 10:39:54 GMT -5
I suspect I may have to just accept this one, but I hate to see Michael Graham as low as #65. Yes, I know he only played one year and his offensive skills (other than his ability to offend opposing players) were limited, but I firmly believe that his contributions to our one National Championship warrant greater consideration. I also firmly believe that if he just managed to open a book or two, '85 would have been a cake walk, and '87 would have been interesting as well.
Sadly, the countdown is not about what could have been. Nevertheless, during his one year on the hilltop, he was awesome, in the truest sense of the word.
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AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Nov 6, 2006 11:08:04 GMT -5
I share your sentiments, sexy. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. What else can one say about Graham?
BTW, while we didn't see much from Graham offensively his freshman year, believe me his offensive game was better than that. He had a nice medium range lefty jumper and very good low post moves. I still think he was the most vicious dunker we've ever had. Can't wait to see if Ticket changes my mind....
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 6, 2006 11:16:08 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, Michael Graham did not even start but came off the bench, infrequently at first but more as the year wore on. And, of course, he was fabulous in the NCAAs.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
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Post by prhoya on Nov 6, 2006 12:52:31 GMT -5
Would love to see PJ Jr play like a Michael Graham... (without the off-court stuff).
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,777
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 6, 2006 13:55:31 GMT -5
A good conversation here.
Michael Graham illustrates the point that outside of the top 25-35 players, it's not easy to slot one person as markedly "better" than another. Had Graham played four years, it's a different situation, but it's not easy to jump him completely over a lot of other good players for one year and 4.7 points per game.
So where would readers put Graham on a top 100 list?
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hoyasexy
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Actively engaged in extramarital saxa
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Post by hoyasexy on Nov 6, 2006 14:24:46 GMT -5
I am reluctant to slot into a specific place on the list, especially with my unfamiliarity with pre-Thompson era players, but I think I would probably put him in the same discussion with Jerome Williams, whom I suspect we will see more than a few spots higher on this list. I think their careers are fairly comparable.
As a Juco transfer, Jerome played only 2 years. His strengths were rebounding and defense, as were Graham's. Jerome might have had an offensive statistical edge over Graham because he was particularly strong on the offensive glass, but I would argue that Graham might have been a little more skilled offensively than Jerome (see AvantGuard's post above). Jerome was particularly weak as a finisher, an area in which Graham was not weak, to say the least.
Jerome saw a lot more of the floor than Graham did, but you have to remember the fact that Graham was on a national championship team that was loaded up front. He willed his way into more playing time as the season progressed, logging the most minutes of the year in the final four.
Finally, history views Graham's brief career through the prism of the national championship. He was a major factor in the 1984 post-season, perhaps a more intimidating presence than (dare I say) PE himself.
Note: Please do not confuse this comparison with an attempt to minimize Jerome Williams or his contributions to the team. He remains one of hoyasexy's all-time favorite Hoyas (an honor that I am sure is very important to him), perhaps just a few slots south of Michael Graham.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
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Post by Filo on Nov 6, 2006 14:26:25 GMT -5
For me, he makes the top 100 for the intangibles and his invaluable contribution to the team that won it all. But, with one year and 4.7 ppg, I would not have put him in the top 50 by any means -- 65 seems pretty reasonable to me.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Nov 6, 2006 15:00:38 GMT -5
I remember the game and I'll put it this way: if we had Graham on last year's team, and he played the same way he did during the '84 tournament, we would've won the championship. That's too many "ifs", but it gives a good picture of how valuable he was during that tournament. Is that worth a higher ranking? I believe so. We would be so lucky to have a 4.7 ppg player step up his game during the post-season as Graham did. It's the difference between winning it all and the Final Eight. I nominate Pat Jr (or VM or DS or Egg).
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,135
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Post by RBHoya on Nov 6, 2006 16:00:43 GMT -5
Did the question of who's writing these ever get answered? Is it DFW?
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