Top 100 Players Thread

[guru]

Burton did go by Nate for a time there. His first two years, it was impossible to know what to call the kid.

[FLHoya]

hoyamonkey said:

He might not be chiming in because he doesn't recognize the name. I remember him being referred to as Nat, and occasionally as Nathaniel, but I don't remember any Nate.

Also, we were a 10 seed that year.

Even if he never could decide on a first name, I'll betcha Nat/Nate/Nathaniel is the only one on this Top 100 list with a Generation AND a Day named after him!

Here's a guy who had started at least half of the team's games in three consecutive seasons, and then in his Senior year was asked to change his role on the team and come off the bench. And what's amazing when I personally think about it is...if Nat Burton doesn't ad lib a play in a first round game of the NCAA Tournament, I'd probably remember him in about the same way I remember Anthony Perry--a guy who played one year while I was at GU, came off the bench, did some things here and there, and so on.

But the most crucial line you'll ever read about Nat Burton is the one in that writeup. He's asked what he would like coaches to say about him, and he replies: "I could trust him with anything."

Next time we're down or tied in the final seconds of a game, think really hard about who on that court you'd trust with anything in that situation.

If Nat Burton doesn't ad lib that play, we probably don't remember his better qualities...which include being a guy who willingly took a back seat after starting off and one for three years and concentrated on doing what he could in his (now limited) minutes to make the team better. He didn't have some electric three point shot, he couldn't drive the lane at will, he's not especially physically gifted, he had an unfortunate haircut. He just played hard every night and did the right kind of things on the court.

The Arkansas game is Nat's most famous, but I actually appreciate his next 20 minutes of basketball even more. If you ever get the chance, watch the first half of the Hampton game from the second round of the tourney. He scores a bunch of points in the first half on backcuts, smart drives, and heady plays near the basket.

There's a play in our upset over Pitt at the PEC two seasons ago--our first signature win under Coach Thompson. It's in the final moments of the game...one of our players, I wanna say Crawford actually, scores on a reverse layup on a baseline backcut at a key moment. I remember seeing the highlights and thinking--that's exactly the kind of basket Burton would have scored if he was on the team.

There really isn't all that much a reason for Nat Burton to be on the Top 100 list except for that layup against Arkansas...and all the things that layup makes us remember about him that we otherwise wouldn't.

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

Owns is #71 - I'd really like to see where the rest of the 2005-2006 team ends up on this list. There should be some low numbers for players like Roy, Jeff, Brandon, and Ashanti.

[hoyasexy]

The latest addition to the list is Anthony Perry at #67, three spots ahead of one of my all-time favorite Hoyas, Boubacar Aw. I can't say enough about how much I don't like this. In my mind, Perry's career was defined by disappointment and a failure to live up to his potential, whereas Aw left nothing on the court, getting maximum results from a fairly limited skill set.

Boubacar would start on the current team, even with our stacked frontcourt. There is always a place on any team for a shut down defender, and he could shut down the best of them.

Anyone know where HoyaChris had Perry and Boubacar?

[YB]

Perry ahead of Aw, Burton and Reid maes NO sense whatsoever.

[hoyasexy]

yb said:

Perry ahead of Aw, Burton and Reid maes NO sense whatsoever.

Or Gene Smith, for that matter, for the exact same reason I articulated above for Aw.

[Filo]

hoyamonkey said:

The latest addition to the list is Anthony Perry at #67, three spots ahead of one of my all-time favorite Hoyas, Boubacar Aw. I can't say enough about how much I don't like this. In my mind, Perry's career was defined by disappointment and a failure to live up to his potential, whereas Aw left nothing on the court, getting maximum results from a fairly limited skill set.

I saw AP up there and I was waiting to see when someone complained. It seems that a lot of the ranking is going based on stats. Not that I disagree with your sentiment -- I do think, though, that AP's career is usually based on how he performed versus expectations, as opposed to how he actually performed.

Boubacar would start on the current team, even with our stacked frontcourt.

Not sure I agree -- perhaps to start the season. I am hoping that wouldn't be the case by mid-season.

Anyone know where HoyaChris had Perry and Boubacar?

HoyaChris had BA at 39 and AP at 45 in the 50 greatest players of the Thomspon era.

[SFHoya99]

On a Top 100 list, people should be evaluated exclusive of their expectations. It's the 100 Greatest Hoyas, not the 100 Greatest Relative to What Joe Blow Thought They Would Do.

[Filo]

sfhoya99 said:

On a Top 100 list, people should be evaluated exclusive of their expectations. It's the 100 Greatest Hoyas, not the 100 Greatest Relative to What Joe Blow Thought They Would Do.

Agree

[casualhoya]

Perry at #67 would be suitable if this list were the Top 100 Most Disappointing Hoyas of all-time.

This is truly the 1st head-scratcher of the bunch.

[hoyasexy]

sfhoya99 said:

On a Top 100 list, people should be evaluated exclusive of their expectations. It's the 100 Greatest Hoyas, not the 100 Greatest Relative to What Joe Blow Thought They Would Do.

Of course I agree with that, because you clearly cannot blame the player when Joe Blow was just plain old wrong about him, but in AP's case, it was evident that the talent was there. He showed flashes at times. What was frustrating was that he seemed to be oblivious to it at times. That is why he would be lower on my list, if on it at all.

On the flip side, I also think it is fair to give bonus points to a guy who had less talent but did more with it. Boubacar was one example. Brian Kelley was another. You can even say that about Michael Graham (Hoyasexy's all time favorite Hoya), although he had some discernable skills other than just intimidating the bejeebus out of opponents. These guys don't always do things that end up in the box score, but they do the things necessary to win. (BTW - does that sound like anyone on our current team near and dear to all of our hearts?)

[SFHoya99]

hoyamonkey said:

These guys don't always do things that end up in the box score, but they do the things necessary to win. (BTW - does that sound like anyone on our current team near and dear to all of our hearts?)

Yeah, I'm a big Sead fan, too.

[1984alloveragain]

I was about to have a MAJOR FIT and complain like h-ll when I saw the name "Perry" this far down the list! I was about to ARGUE he was a MAJOR cog in our Elite 8 team of '87, with "Reggie and the Miracles". This 6'4" ROCK of a Center PROVED that height is not the most important part of a Hoya when he SHUT DOWN 7' seikley and the orange THREE times (BET FINAL, too), the year they lost in the National Final in the last seconds.
PERRY MCDONALD was, and always will be (for me) the HEART and SWEAT that defined the Hoyas SPUNK during those in between years between EWING and MOURNING. THAT Perry has GOT to be in the top third of the list I hope. Sadly, I would agree that Mr. AW and Gene Smith BOTH belong ahead of AP on this list, though I am happy AP was a Hoya....

[hoyasexy]

84, with you on PMcD. He was the man.

[kchoya]

"Perry's arrival on the college scene would be delayed by the NCAA, who ruled that a computer science course taught at St. Anthony's was insufficient as a core requirement, rendering Perry ineligible for the 1997-98 season. "

That was the beginning of the end. What a bunch of BS that was. He was never the same after that. Anyone remember seeing him in the McD's game? He was awesome in that game, throwing it down any everything. And not to mention his epic battle with the Franchise at the kenner league.

[guru]

Gene Smith was way too low. That guy was a top 30 all time Hoya.

[Filo]

I agree re: Gene Smith. Apparently, so does HoyaChris, who has Gene in his top 40 Hoyas of all-time.

I also loved Perry McDonald. Not sure he is going to make it into the top third though. I am thinking he is going to show up before that.

On the outside chance some of you haven't seen these, here are the links to the History Project's top 50 players from the Thompson era (ranked 1-50) and top 40 players of all time (listed chronolgically).

www.hoyabasketball.com/features/top50.htm

www.hoyabasketball.com/features/bb-top40.htm

Makes for some great reading if you ever have any spare time...

[HoyaChris]

filo said:

I agree re: Gene Smith. Apparently, so does HoyaChris, who has Gene in his top 40 Hoyas of all-time.

I also loved Perry McDonald. Not sure he is going to make it into the top third though. I am thinking he is going to show up before that.

On the outside chance some of you haven't seen these, here are the links to the History Project's top 50 players from the Thompson era (ranked 1-50) and top 40 players of all time (listed chronolgically).

www.hoyabasketball.com/features/top50.htm

www.hoyabasketball.com/features/bb-top40.htm

Makes for some great reading if you ever have any spare time...

To be accurate, I have Gene Smith at #24 of the list of players who have played for Georgetown since the 1972-3 season. DFW's project is far more ambitious, since he is covering the entire 100 year scope of Georgetown basketball.

The fun thing about rankings is that they are, at their core, subjective reflections of one's view of history, especially after you get beyond the few completely obvious picks. Gene Smith is the epitome of a player whose ranking could vary widely depending upon what you value. If you had asked Billy Packer during the 1983-84 season who was the best defensive guard in college basketball, he would have said Gene Smith. That argues for a high position on the list. On the other hand, Gene Smith played less than ten minutes a game in probably two thirds of the games played during his college career. That points out that he had vast offensive deficiencies.

Ultimately, I put Gene Smith high on my list because his defensive excellence was a reflection of, and a critical contributor to, the defensive domination that was the Hoyas of the 1980's. But memories of his jump shot still give me nightmares.

[DanMcQ]

Gene Smith had a jump shot? Who knew? ;D

[hoyarooter]

Not that I need to pile on, but I totally agree about both Gene Smith and Perry M. Whenever Gene Smith came in, it seemed as though the entire team defense picked up considerably. It was as though he created a frenzy that spread to the other players. I can't think of any other guard about whom I could say that. And Pops surely felt that way, as well, as he invited Gene to try out for the Olympic bb team when he was the coach.