history of hating 'Cuse

[hoyarob]

Can someone edify me regarding the history of the Georgetown-Syracuse rivalry. My unrelenting personal hatred of them goes back only to Feb 2004 when The Unmentionable beat Gtown on a buzzer beater during accepted students weekend. Is it just a sui generis thing between two major programs within the same conference? Or are there certain incidents that have fueled the fire? (similar to TO celebrating inside the Cowboy's star @ midfield, or Boston College trashing Notre Dame's visiting locker room after beating them in 2002). Does it date back all the way to 1979?
PS: if you see a guy on campus this semester dragging a plush Otto the Orange toy tied to a noose behind his wheelchair....that would be yours truly

[SFHoya99]

Read this: www.hoyabasketball.com

From the above:

"Georgetown 52, Syracuse 50
Manley Field House, Syracuse, NY


The last home game at Manley Field House was supposed to be a celebration of the nation's longest win streak (57) and Syracuse's near clinching of the Big East regular season crown. Down 14 at the half, the Hoyas went on a 15-5 run late in the game. A goaltending call against the Orange tied the score at 50, and Eric Floyd is fouled on an errant SU toss with :05 left. Floyd's free throws are good, and Georgetown's upset of #3-ranked Syracuse breaks the hallowed "Streak". Thompson's legendary quote in the post-game press conference still rings in the ears of Orangebloods: "Manley Field House is officially closed." Thus began the greatest rivalry in Eastern basketball."

[Deleted]

You're joking, right?

Two original Big East schools. Built by two hall of fame coaches. Numerous face-offs in the Big East Championship. Dozens of matchups between top ten teams in both the regular season and the BET. All of those all-time-great players. What more do you need?

Oh, their fans are obnoxious punks.

[sweetness]

Ewing and Pearl Washington squaring off in the '85 Big East Tournament is a highlight. Michael Graham mixing it up with Hawkins in the '84 Big East Final was a major incident too. Of course we won both those games.

[hoyaclap]

Am I the only person who would have traded the Sweet 16 for beating Syracuse in the Big East on the way to winning the Conference last year? or has this already been discussed?

[Locker]

hoyaclap said:

Am I the only person who would have traded the Sweet 16 for beating Syracuse in the Big East on the way to winning the Conference last year?

Maybe. Syracuse has won the last two BE conference tourneys, but most people just remember their last two NCAA flameouts. Sort of like the U.S. national soccer team. Great, you won your region in qualifying...but if you suck in the World Cup, who cares?

[DFW HOYA]

Where to begin?

Manley Field House?
Marty Headd and Andre Hawkins?
Michael Jackson and Michael Graham?
Sam Jefferson's foul, Brandon Bowman's big toe, G-Mac's last stand?
Or Perry McDonald posting up on Rony Seikaly, Charles Smith going coast to coast, and Lee Scruggs' career game?

Any way you look at it, a great rivalry, even though it's akin to the Cowboys-Eagles (Dallas fans don't like Philadelphia, but they will never hate the Eagles the way the Eagles hate the Cowboys.) Georgetown cost Syracuse at least four Big East titles in the 1980's, and they haven't forgotten it.

(And bring back the Saltine Warrior.)

[sleepyjackson21]

The game that HoyaRob was referring to...just sickening. Last year's BET game.....sickening. Brandon's Bigtoe, not as sickening but still left me with an upset stomach. Smitty's coast to coast, now that brings a smile to my face.

[DallasHoya]

Let's also not forget the last pre-Big East meeting, the 1979 ECAC final (or something like that) at Cole Field House, where Georgetown beat a Roosevelt Bouie/Louis Orr team to make the NCAA tourney.

[FLHoya]

I swear The Hoya has done feature stories on this in the recent past.

EDIT: Like this one:

www.thehoya.com/sports/022202/sports5.cfm

(They certainly know who to call for interviews:

Georgetown alumnus John Reagan (COL ’84) recalls before the 1984 Big East final, some Georgetown fans found an eight-foot tall sign reading “We Are SU” which had been misplaced by a Syracuse cheerleader. Following a Hoya overtime win, the sign was paraded around the victory party to the chant “We are GU!”
)

[FLHoya]

sleepyjackson21 said:

Brandon's Bigtoe, not as sickening but still left me with an upset stomach.

Here's what I've always found funny about that game: obviously it bugs the hell out of Hoya fans, and with good reason. But given that this particular game was infamously not on any TV station aside from some podunk uber-local affiliate up in Upstate NY, and I seem to recall some Hoya fans locally trying to go to a bar that promised a feed but never delivered...

...did video or photographic evidence of the "Bigtoe" moment ever surface? And how many of us actually saw it?

Just struck me as weird that "Brandon's Bigtoe" gets this classic groan reaction among GTown fans (especially younger ones) and it went largely heard-but-not-seen among the fan base at the time.

[2ndRyan]

I think it's their fans- a unique yet highly toxic blend of Long Island brashness and upstate "Deliverance" types.

[RockawayHoya]

FL, I've always thought about that too. I've never even seen footage of the toe crossing the line. All I remember is what Rich said in his broadcast (I was sitting by a radio with a few of my roommates listening to the game). I think someone said they later saw it on TV somewhere (Sportscenter? Local news?) to confirm Brandon had stepped on the line, but I've never seen it myself.

For me, the rivalry began with "Shumpert's crying." But I'm aware it goes much farther back than that. BTW, who's the "Saltine Warrior?"

[HoyaChris]

This is an excerpt from "The 50 Greatest Hoyas of the John Thompson Era" (to be imminently updated) which is archived on the Hoya History web site.


25. Perry McDonald (85-88) (6-4) (5, 4, 3, 2) - If a book was written about the Georgetown-Syracuse rivalry during the 1980's, the only appropriate title would be "Only the Ball was Orange." Georgetown-Syracuse was as big then as Duke-NC is today with every single game on national TV and with the Hoyas generally coming out on top. Between 1978-79 and 1988-89 the Hoyas were 20-10 verses the Orange who were generally ranked and often ranked higher than the Hoyas.

Among the highlights of the rivalry:

In 1979 Ed Spriggs and Jeff Bullis come off the bench to spell a foul plagued Hoya front line and the Hoyas upset the 6th ranked orange in an NCAA play in game.
In 1980, the Hoyas rally from a double digit second half deficit to end the nation's longest home winning streak at 57 in the last game played at Manley Field House. John Thompson declares that "Manley Field House is officially closed" endearing himself to Orange fans everywhere.
In 1981 the Hoyas lose to the Orange in the Big East semi-final, played at the new Carrier Dome, but still get an NCAA invite. Despite winning the tournament, the Orange stay home.
In 1984, 1987 and 1989 Georgetown beats Syracuse in the Big East final. The 1984 final features a quasi-brawl between Michael Graham and Syracuse's Andre Hawkins. At the press conference after the game, Jim Boeheim throws a chair.
In 1988, Charles Smith goes end to end at the buzzer to beat Syracuse at the dome and runs straight down the tunnel in celebration.
(We will avoid mention of the 1990 game in which Sam Jefferson sets the Hoya record for Foul-Stupidest when he inexplicably grabs at Billy Owens 45 feet away from the basket as time expires. Owens two free throws send the game into overtime and the Orange win.)

No year better exemplified the frustration of Syracuse fans than 1987. To be fair, Syracuse did make the national final that year, losing to Indiana when they forgot how to call time out after going down late in the game. That Syracuse team was loaded with Sherman Douglas, Rony Seikaly, and Derek Coleman. And that Syracuse team lost to Reggie and the Miracles three times. Against Syracuse no Miracle came up bigger than Perry McDonald.

Perry McDonald was listed on the Hoya roster as a 6-4 guard and came to the hilltop as the leading scorer in New Orleans high school history. In his first two seasons he struggled to find a role as a shooting guard, a role for which he was ill-fitted since he had significant difficulty hitting outside shots. In 1986-87, his junior year, he was reincarnated as a low post presence to great success. His signature move was catching the ball about 12 feet from the basket in the lane, taking one large step and launching his body towards the basket, taking contact and laying the ball in high off the glass. He was also an exceptional offensive rebounder and scored a large number of points on follows. He averaged 13.0 as a junior and made second team Big East, and then finished his career with a 10.1 ppg senior season.

Perry's most visible victim was 6-11 Syracuse center Rony Seikaly. During the "Miracles" year, McDonald had three big games against Seikaly, who was in constant foul trouble. In his best game, an 83-81 win, he scored a career high 23 points including the winning basket at the buzzer. Matched up with McDonald, Seikaly resembled nothing so much as a cartoon elephant confronted by a mouse. By the Big East tournament Seikaly was actively avoiding contact with McDonald and the Hoyas won easily in the final.

[hoyas2008]

flhoya said:

sleepyjackson21 said:

Brandon's Bigtoe, not as sickening but still left me with an upset stomach.

Here's what I've always found funny about that game: obviously it bugs the hell out of Hoya fans, and with good reason. But given that this particular game was infamously not on any TV station aside from some podunk uber-local affiliate up in Upstate NY, and I seem to recall some Hoya fans locally trying to go to a bar that promised a feed but never delivered...

...did video or photographic evidence of the "Bigtoe" moment ever surface? And how many of us actually saw it?

Just struck me as weird that "Brandon's Bigtoe" gets this classic groan reaction among GTown fans (especially younger ones) and it went largely heard-but-not-seen among the fan base at the time.

...Yep, Sounds like a conspiracy to me

[guru]

dfw said:

Where to begin?

Manley Field House?
Marty Headd and Andre Hawkins?
Michael Jackson and Michael Graham?
Sam Jefferson's foul, Brandon Bowman's big toe, G-Mac's last stand?
Or Perry McDonald posting up on Rony Seikaly, Charles Smith going coast to coast, and Lee Scruggs' career game?

Any way you look at it, a great rivalry, even though it's akin to the Cowboys-Eagles (Dallas fans don't like Philadelphia, but they will never hate the Eagles the way the Eagles hate the Cowboys.) Georgetown cost Syracuse at least four Big East titles in the 1980's, and they haven't forgotten it.

(And bring back the Saltine Warrior.)

So are we the Eagles or the Cowboys? I guess we'd have to be the Eagles - I have a bunch of friends who live in/near Syracuse and went there in the mid 90s, and they don't seem to think the Georgetown games are all that big a deal. I think UConn has passed them as a rival, at least in their eyes. Unfortunately, I think the malaise of the late JT2/Esh era really hurt the rivalry. It will always be a big game (especially from our perspective) but probably will never again approach what is was from 1979-1996.

[sleepyjackson21]

I distinctly remember watching the end of the Brandon Bigtoe game (last minute and OT) out here in Chicago. I'm pretty sure they cut to the game because whatever game they had on here was a blowout. His toe was clearly on the line........damn. Probably cost us an NCAA bid.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

yeah i remember seeing it on sports center but listening to rich call the game on a tiny little portable radio the family around the kitchen table. It was very depressing.

[DanMcQ]

The Manley game was actually a follow-up to the Hoyas defeat (66-58) of the "Louis and Bouie show" at Cole in the ECAC final in March 1979 for a NCAA birth.

The rivalry was cemented in earnest at Manley Field House, where only the presence of Greg Spriggs allowed us to escape with our lives during and after the game.

[tgo]

hoyaclap said:

Am I the only person who would have traded the Sweet 16 for beating Syracuse in the Big East on the way to winning the Conference last year? or has this already been discussed?

this was discussed last year at tourny time and i know many people including myself who are in the same camp as you although i was surprised that so many people disagreed. 20 years from now we will be counting our big east titles and talking smack with cuse fans about how many times we have crushed them, the trip to the sweet 16 is always nice but is just another moderately successful post season run, it isnt a final four and wont merit much mention.