RDF
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Post by RDF on May 24, 2006 10:29:58 GMT -5
But Jon is good if you don't need that. It will be interesting to see how he does this year with two of those creators gone. Will we need more creation from Jon? First, I want to just say that we're not going to have a 6-7 man rotation in most games, IMO. I see the 3 spots opened by BB, DO and Cook filled by Sapp, Crawford, Edge, Mack, PE, Summers, etc. We have a deep bench and as long as the new guys can grasp the system we're in good shape. But in regards to Wallace, the only thing I'd like to see more from him was the style of play he showed against Duke. He had at least 2-3 quick drives right down the lane, and who couldn't like the spin move? Maybe it takes the competition of one of the best teams in the nation to bring that out of you, feeling like you've got nothing to lose, but he CAN and HAS played like that before. There's no reason he can't burn guards off the dribble more consistently. His outside shot will only get better if he adds that element to his game. Oh yeah . . . Scottie Reynolds. Sorry ;D Jaques, one of the reasons Wallace was able to drive like that is because Duke is terribly slow--as in Greg Paulus couldn't defend anyone on this board. Another is that Coach K insisted on defending Hoyas Man to Man and his team was slow, so it allowed easy shots/attacking the hoop. I like Wallace a lot and his game has improved a great deal. To me he's a good leader on the court and you get his best effort each game. Only game I ever thought he was a bit timid and out of his league was last year's Nova game, but that is understandable as that was one talented backcourt who was reaching their peak point in the season. With this said--I expect Wallace to be an even more improved player this year--with his experience and confidence of having been through the wars and showing strong. Key will be development of Sapp, Thornton, and contribution of Jeremiah Rivers who I think will be a pleasant surprise to many who think he's overhyped/not as good as reputation. The kid can play and will fit in great with what GU does. Fine passer and strong/quick enough to penetrate the defense and find open man. We just need to hope the likes of Sapp/Thornton, etc... can knock down that open shot. Ideally, Wallace would be a great backup point guard and that could happen if Hoyas land Chris Wright and to me that takes your team to another level--when you have a player of Wallace's ability/experience as a bench/role player. Now I realize minutes have to be earned, but Wright and Austin Freeman are capable of immediate minutes no matter of who is ahead of them. We've got one in fold--just hope we can land Chris Wright--that takes GU to another level in my opinion.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on May 24, 2006 11:43:26 GMT -5
I see your point about Wallace's success against Duke; not only did they play man, but they didn't sag off when we were stretching the defense. The more I think about it, the more I realize how horrible of a game plan Coach K set up for that game. And he didn't really adjust it either.
But the fact still remains that Wallace had to burn some top level guards one-on-one to get to the rim a few times. We're not just talking about Paulus either, they had Dockery and Nelson on him at certain points as well. And I think "the move" i.e. the spin move was on Dockery. (I was drinking and haven't watched the game since that day . . . memory hazy at best). I was a Wallace skeptic for a long time, but think his calm and collected demeanor can really be valuable with more aggressive offense.
I think this is my second post in a row where I'm not really making a relevant point. I agree with you though that there is no doubt a Freeman/Wright backcourt would be the best we've seen in 10 years.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on May 24, 2006 13:04:41 GMT -5
i was anti-wallace his entire freshman season and the early part of last season. i honestly thought he was nothing more than a 10 minute a game reserve at best. he totally proved me wrong with his play after the first of the year. he was easily our most consistent perimeter player, most times outplaying cook, owens, and bowman. he has really turned himself into a player.
i think sapp can make the same type of strides this season.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2006 13:27:42 GMT -5
But the fact still remains that Wallace had to burn some top level guards one-on-one to get to the rim a few times. We're not just talking about Paulus either, they had Dockery and Nelson on him at certain points as well. And I think "the move" i.e. the spin move was on Dockery. (I was drinking and haven't watched the game since that day . . . memory hazy at best). I was a Wallace skeptic for a long time, but think his calm and collected demeanor can really be valuable with more aggressive offense. Nelson did not play against us, and it was Dockery who got burned on the spin move/layup...
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Post by SoCal Hoya85 on May 24, 2006 15:07:51 GMT -5
Well, what the heck have Summers, Macklin, Rivers or even my boy Ewing proven as Hoyas? Answer: nothing. Not entirely true in the case of Ewing. We know he is a great team supporter from his rabid cheering on the bench this year. We know he can jump incredibly well from his Kenner and Midnight Madness performances. We know from some reports that he works really hard and does well against D1 comp in practice. We know he is a sharp dresser.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on May 24, 2006 15:09:44 GMT -5
Everyone is a sharp dresser compared to you.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on May 24, 2006 15:23:07 GMT -5
Well, what the heck have Summers, Macklin, Rivers or even my boy Ewing proven as Hoyas? Answer: nothing. Not entirely true in the case of Ewing. We know he is a great team supporter from his rabid cheering on the bench this year. We know he can jump incredibly well from his Kenner and Midnight Madness performances. We know from some reports that he works really hard and does well against D1 comp in practice. We know he is a sharp dresser. We also know that he is the real Hoya Dance Team.
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Post by FairfaxHoya on May 25, 2006 8:24:26 GMT -5
i was anti-wallace his entire freshman season and the early part of last season. i honestly thought he was nothing more than a 10 minute a game reserve at best. he totally proved me wrong with his play after the first of the year. he was easily our most consistent perimeter player, most times outplaying cook, owens, and bowman. he has really turned himself into a player. i think sapp can make the same type of strides this season. I agree, although as I recall his scoring/shooting really went south at the end of the year, probably due to the III policy of over-using the starters in mid-season during blowouts. As our top perimeter threat, we're going to need him fresh for the post-season this year.
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Post by ][-][ 0 `/ /-\ 5 on May 25, 2006 22:33:58 GMT -5
Ideally, Wallace would be a great backup point guard and that could happen if Hoyas land Chris Wright and to me that takes your team to another level--when you have a player of Wallace's ability/experience as a bench/role player. Now I realize minutes have to be earned, but Wright and Austin Freeman are capable of immediate minutes no matter of who is ahead of them. We've got one in fold--just hope we can land Chris Wright--that takes GU to another level in my opinion. Even if we get Wright, I don't see there being any way JWall doesn't start and get most of the minutes. In fact, having JWall to learn from and a year of learning the offense would be great preparation for Wright.
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Post by dkr354 on May 26, 2006 18:33:18 GMT -5
I dont see Wallace giving up the reigns either as starting PG in his senior year with a freshman coming in. But here is an even better question. In 2007-08 the starting guards would be Wallace and Jessie Sapp in my best guess. The immediate backups would be Freeman and Wright (for this purpose, assuming he comes). So in 2008-09 when Wallace leaves and Freeman and Wright have a year under their belts, would the sophomore tandem take over the reigns as the pair of backcourt starters and result in SENIOR jessie sapp to be relegated to 6th man duties after 2 years of starting? The point of this argument is to ask how crowded the backcourt will get with the addition of Chris Wright. I want Wright as much or more than the next guy on this board but is there any chance that after next year, a solid player like Sapp who could get great minutes on a ton of teams would leave Georgetown with Freeman and Wright coming in? Just a thought that almost no one has posed thus far.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on May 26, 2006 22:05:30 GMT -5
Unless he steps it up, Austin will start ahead of Mr. Sapp from day one, IMO. I'm hoping that Jessie proves me wrong and makes the same type of freshman-->sophomore improvement that Roy/Jon and co. made. If he improves that much, I'd be thrilled, because we'd actually have a very real chance to go to to the final 4 next year, IMO. But if I were betting, as of this moment, I'd take Free. He is a serious, serious player.
I do like the idea though of starting Jon, Jessie, and Roy at Center in '07-'08 with Chris, Austin, and Biggie backing them up and getting some significant minutes off the bench, and then all 3 moving into the starting lineup the next year. That'd be something of an ideal transition, but IMO Austin and Chris may be too talented to keep off the floor long, once they get a grasp of the nuances of the offense (again, this is all assuming that scholarships open and that players feelings dont change).
Also, depending on what happens with our frontcourt, you might see us throw some 3 guard lineups out there. We haven't really seen it in III's tenure, but we really haven't had the quality at guard. With 4 or more pretty good guards in the mix, you might see 3 of them out there at a time, especially since Austin has pretty good size, and could conceivably spend time as that 3rd guard, especially since a lot of teams in our conference tend to play 3 guards a lot too. If you see a bunch of early departures up front, I think you'll see some of that.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on May 26, 2006 22:31:29 GMT -5
Wow, I love Freeman's game but Sapp is also a serious player folks and with a year at starter I think he continues to start.
The player who has to worry is the player that wins bench guard minutes this year. That guy's in trouble.
This year:
Wallace, Sapp Sapp, One of the guards Ewing, Spann Green, Summers, Macklin Hibbert, Green
Next year:
Wallace, Rivers Sapp, Freeman Spann, Freeman Ewing, Summers Hibbert, Macklin
Did I just keep Wright out of the lineup? I did and it's not by accident. Great talent. Super quick. Won't play much until his second year.
Freeman will. I think as a backup at 2 and 3. He just fits perfectly.
Green jumps, Ewing plays 4.
So the following year (assuming no other transfers/NBA jumps):
Rivers, Wright Sapp, Freeman Spann, Freeman Summers, Macklin Macklin, McClain
Who's not here? The freshmen left by Hibbert, Wallace, and Crawford as well as any spots vacated by transfers. There will be with a playing time crunch.
That's my speculation. I don't think it's that crazy, though I'm sure it's contrary to the normal idea that the new guys will come in and leapfrog everyone immediately.
And by the way the lesson here is "never get injured." The son of an NBA all-star and a pre-season consensus top 100 player and top 5-10 point guard is now being completely forgotten because his "stock dropped."
Count me as a guy who is holding his stock.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on May 26, 2006 23:04:19 GMT -5
Haha, Giga you are a bit of a homer at times, overvaluing our current players and undervaluing the recruits a little, which is cool, especially since most people tend to do the opposite. My random, baseless speculation just because I enjoy projecting it: 06-07 1. Wallace 2. Sapp 3. Ewing 4. Green 5. Hibbert 6. Summers 7. Macklin 8. Winner of Marc/Tyler/Josh/Tay/Rivers... only one of them gets PT as a backup guard, unless 2 guys really improve, IMO '07-'08 1. Wallace 2. Freeman 3. Ewing 4. Summers 5. Hibbert 6. Wright (please come, Chris)... and he may overtake Jon by February 7. Sapp 8. Macklin 9. McClain (please come, Anthony) 10. Marc/Tay/Tyler/Josh/Jeremiah winner from this year (will play sparingly only though ) '08-'09 1. Wright 2. Free 3. DaJuan 4. Macklin 5. Biggie 6. Braswell (please come here, Chris) 7. A freshman.... Sean Mosely, If we're really lucky in '08 8. Marc/Tay/Josh/Jeremiah winner (from this year and next... I'm leaning towards Marc, personally) 9. Another freshman... Jarret Mann? Garvey Young? Jason Clark? Ashton Gibbs? Too early to say We're a long way away, but if we can land Mr. Wright and Biggie, and I think we're looking pretty good with some talented guys in '08... we could really be putting a LOT of talent on the floor, and with talented guys coming off the bench too. Really, really exciting to think of.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on May 27, 2006 9:39:00 GMT -5
Yeah I am a homer for the guys with experience, but I also think most coaches including JTIII are. Freeman though, will play immediately and I can't deny that. But the little Freeman secret is that he's not really that quick. Ridiculous shooter and a guy who uses his body well but he's not like Sapp at all in that he'll never play the point. So I'm not sure that he'll just displace a starting guard who gives us another look when he could come off the bench. But he has skills that can immediate impact the offense and that's why he will play. Actually the only point of disagreement here is Spann's ability to earn a spot (which we'll see if it happens this year) and Wright's role immediately. I'm just not sold that Wright would suddenly jump over everyone. And in my continued tradition of posting the "how soon we forget" link regarding recruiting, here it is again. Check out number 45 (and for a laugh #44). One is getting buried behind a high-school senior before he plays a minute, and the other was the focus of more attention the last few weeks than any recruit in recent memory. All because a few "gurus" changed their minds over the span of a few months? Alright I guess. home.nc.rr.com/rsci/RSCI_100_PreSummer_2006.htm
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Post by dkr354 on May 27, 2006 10:43:37 GMT -5
I like where this discussion is going but after hearing about the ups and downs of jeremiah rivers, your latest post GIGA that gives a website with rankings that have rivers 40 some spots ahead of summers might not be too credible. I understand your point on reynolds. I dont think he is going to be the next great guard in the Big East. But still those rankings might be a little ridiculous because they are from June 2005. Things change in a year and Rivers did not put up the numbers he was supposed to. He has to prove a lot because he does not have the shooting ability to put him close to Reynolds in my mind, yet. He has to come out big for us this year because we are thin at guard.
Anyway, I am glad to see everyones huge thoughts on Freemans minutes as a freshman. If we need a scorer, he would be it. I think for the future of this team, Chris Wright is a huge get and I think the depth numbes RB provided are right on target with where I normally project them a few years down the road. Giga, if you dont have Wright in your top 9 or 10 players in his freshman year, you have no idea what you are leaving out of the equation. I really think this kid is the next Chris Paul. Wright is said to have a better jumper and from the film I have seen, it looks like his 3 point shot would instantly be the best on the floor for the Hoyas. If Wright and McClain come in 2007, this team is set for years.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on May 27, 2006 11:42:19 GMT -5
If he is the next Chris Paul, that's better than great.
But here's the funny thing to me. If we were evaluating Jeremiah Rivers at the exact same time (before senior year) as Chris Wright, we'd be talking about a highly-ranked player with the size and pedigree to be great.
But after what you call a year where Rivers "didn't put up the numbers he was supposed to" he's fallen off the planet. Will Chris Wright do the same? Was Rivers just an extremely overrated junior? I mean, is Rivers suddenly soooooooooo bad that the offers he got from everyone from Kansas to Florida to UCLA be rescinded if they saw him play right now? I know that as an 18-year old he'll have "a lot to prove" whereas Chris Wright already has a "superstar" stamp on his forehead and can move to the front of the line. But you know what, how about if we wait on both.
I'm putting Rivers in there because strangely, I think he's better than his worst three months considering how many big time programs were after him. He also has the #1 attribute of a freshman contributor and that's size. Freeman has a chance to play because he uses his body so well and that's huge. It's so much easier to play as a freshman when you have either bulk or length relative to others at your position because it hides a lot of other growing pains.
On the flip side, let me tell you a story about a man named Macklin. He was the second coming, might displace Roy, one-and-done, starter from day 1 (you know the usual for a guy who hasn't played a minute of D-1 ball).
Now, oops, he is self-admittedly coming in to "help at the 4" his first year and JTIII has said he'll have a hard time "balancing the hype of a big recruit with the playing time he's earned." Wait, you mean Macklin isn't better than every player currently on a Sweet 16 team? Shocking. That Roy guy fell from a top 20 recruit in the nation his junior year to "future lightbulb changer" by the end of his senior year. There's no way he could ever beat out the mighty Mack. These rankings are based on a lot of inputs and the games of these kids in high school are all top level. A few bad months doesn't erase a kid's talent and a few good showings doesn't make him a monster. And it really doesn't make him capable of beating out similarly-talented and experienced ballplayers for spots.
Finally let me say this about any comments on high school three-point shooting: it doesn't translate the first year. It just flat out doesn't translate. Every player we have coming in is the "best shooter on the team immediately." Josh Thornton is the latest "best shooter we've ever seen" to not play as a frosh. Ray Reed, RAY REED, shot 56% from three as a senior in high school. The final stat on this:
The number of Top Ten Rivals PGs 2005 that shot better from three than Johnathan Wallace last year: Zero. That's right, 0-10. Every single one of the top ten point guards, all gamebreakers, all huge gets, all big-time scorers with great strokes, all talked about on message boards like this one--all of them beaten by a second-year walk-on from outside. It just doesn't translate, not in the first year at a new level of basketball.
If Wright beats out Rivers, I'll be fine with it. But I'm betting Rivers isn't backing down and I'm not going to bet against him just yet. It might change, but I don't think it's the craziest notion especially given JTIII's history of playing freshmen sparingly.
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Post by bsure on May 27, 2006 12:18:52 GMT -5
What a difference a few years off the board makes. From having little to no talent to now possibly an abundance of talent. Keep bringing them in JTIII.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 27, 2006 12:32:25 GMT -5
GIGA, I loved your post. You'll just have to live with being associated with me.
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Post by RockawayHoya on May 27, 2006 12:53:27 GMT -5
If he is the next Chris Paul, that's better than great. But here's the funny thing to me. If we were evaluating Jeremiah Rivers at the exact same time (before senior year) as Chris Wright, we'd be talking about a highly-ranked player with the size and pedigree to be great. But after what you call a year where Rivers "didn't put up the numbers he was supposed to" he's fallen off the planet. Will Chris Wright do the same? Was Rivers just an extremely overrated junior? I mean, is Rivers suddenly soooooooooo bad that the offers he got from everyone from Kansas to Florida to UCLA be rescinded if they saw him play right now? I know that as an 18-year old he'll have "a lot to prove" whereas Chris Wright already has a "superstar" stamp on his forehead and can move to the front of the line. But you know what, how about if we wait on both. I'm putting Rivers in there because strangely, I think he's better than his worst three months considering how many big time programs were after him. He also has the #1 attribute of a freshman contributor and that's size. Freeman has a chance to play because he uses his body so well and that's huge. It's so much easier to play as a freshman when you have either bulk or length relative to others at your position because it hides a lot of other growing pains. On the flip side, let me tell you a story about a man named Macklin. He was the second coming, might displace Roy, one-and-done, starter from day 1 (you know the usual for a guy who hasn't played a minute of D-1 ball). Now, oops, he is self-admittedly coming in to "help at the 4" his first year and JTIII has said he'll have a hard time "balancing the hype of a big recruit with the playing time he's earned." Wait, you mean Macklin isn't better than every player currently on a Sweet 16 team? Shocking. That Roy guy fell from a top 20 recruit in the nation his junior year to "future lightbulb changer" by the end of his senior year. There's no way he could ever beat out the mighty Mack. These rankings are based on a lot of inputs and the games of these kids in high school are all top level. A few bad months doesn't erase a kid's talent and a few good showings doesn't make him a monster. And it really doesn't make him capable of beating out similarly-talented and experienced ballplayers for spots. Finally let me say this about any comments on high school three-point shooting: it doesn't translate the first year. It just flat out doesn't translate. Every player we have coming in is the "best shooter on the team immediately." Josh Thornton is the latest "best shooter we've ever seen" to not play as a frosh. Ray Reed, RAY REED, shot 56% from three as a senior in high school. The final stat on this: The number of Top Ten Rivals PGs 2005 that shot better from three than Johnathan Wallace last year: Zero. That's right, 0-10. Every single one of the top ten point guards, all gamebreakers, all huge gets, all big-time scorers with great strokes, all talked about on message boards like this one--all of them beaten by a second-year walk-on from outside. It just doesn't translate, not in the first year at a new level of basketball. If Wright beats out Rivers, I'll be fine with it. But I'm betting Rivers isn't backing down and I'm not going to bet against him just yet. It might change, but I don't think it's the craziest notion especially given JTIII's history of playing freshmen sparingly. Awesome post, especially the analysis of Wallace's 3 PT shooting vs. top incoming recruits.
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Post by dkr354 on May 27, 2006 13:02:53 GMT -5
If that post about Wallace vs the freshman is 0-10 is true I respect that you know that. I dont want to be associated as someone that doesnt believe in Rivers. I am excited that he is coming because I know if he is the guard JTIII picked from that class then he must be a good player. I dont think hes a great shooter but he should be a big guard that defends well. I strongly believe he will get the same minutes this season as Sapp had in 2005-06. However, I really think Chris Wright could change this program as much or more than Freeman with his ability to play point. If the 2 of them are in the same starting backcourt for 3 years or so, we would have the backcourt to win it all. Are Rivers, Wallace, and Sapp NCAA Championship guards? possibly. but I do think that players with a wider skill set as analyzed by scouts have a better chance at putting points on the board and getting us farther than guys who are simply good defenders. The verdict will partially be out soon enough as I cant see any scenario in which Rivers does not get 15-20 mins a game as the third guard on the team.
Also, I wouldnt say JTIII doesnt play freshman. He started Wallace and Green every game of their freshman year because they were the best players at the position. He started Roy in about half of the games as well. If a player is the best player at a position, he will play. He will not sit because he is a freshman. That trend happened this year because the freshman on this team were not even close to as good as the freshman the year before. JTIII has nothing against freshman starters or significant minutes. Impossible to argue otherwise.
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