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Post by LongtimeFan on Apr 21, 2004 14:45:37 GMT -5
In Brandon's defense, unless you have walked in his shoes, don't bash him. He was merely stating how he felt. It is not easy playing for a coach that is not only a poor motivator, but someone who has the ability to bring you down to the point of self-doubt. That would be hard for us old guys to tolerate, so you can imagine how many of the team felt.
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hoopsmccan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,419
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Post by hoopsmccan on Apr 21, 2004 15:45:02 GMT -5
What I said had nothing to do with defending a former coach. It had everything to do with disturbing remarks made by our most talented player. To imply that you need someone to motivate you to get on the floor to compete is flat-out not cool. I have about as little natural basketball talent as anyone on Earth, but I would sign the papers right now that would give me a full scholarship, a uniform, and a spot on the bench of a major division I university basketball program (which Georgetown still is, despite what some of you have said in the past). To think that someone with (most likely) professional aspirations would feel the need to say what he said, it's rather worrisome. Another thing that bothers me - players are babied these days to the point that when someone yells at them (as a certain former coach has been known to do) for playing out of control or selfishly (which a certain most-talented-player-on-the-team has been known to do), they get Editeded at the world and want to transfer. That's ridiculous. When your parents yelled at you for talking back, did you try to get adopted by the family across the street? No. Grow up, take your lumps, and work harder to make sure that it doesn't happen again. And if you don't like a coach or don't "feel a chemistry" or whatever, DON'T SIGN THE LOI! Okay, end of unexpected rant. Bottom line: coaches should be motivators, but players shouldn't need to be motivated. And that's all I'm going say on the subject. I would gladly trade Joe Hoya for five more the_ways. Enough with the self righteous crap JH. Great - you would gladly take $40K to sit on the bench. You always give 110%. Fantastic. If a player doesn't love a coach two years down the road, they shouldn't sign the LOI. Ah, okay. Coaches should be motivators, but player shouldn't need motivation. Good point JH. BB complimented his new coach and you turn it into a huge indictment of his character (and the character of those whipper snappers that don't like to get yelled at). Did you ever think BB mailed it in? And what was that nonsense about kids not liking to get yelled at and should grow up (using an extremely bad analogy)? Did that have anything to do w/ BB or was that more of the gospel according to Joe Hoya?
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Joe Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
You're watching Sports Night on CSC, so stick around.
Posts: 1,236
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Post by Joe Hoya on Apr 21, 2004 18:23:07 GMT -5
First off, SF, time between classes is fine for posting on the message board, which is what I was doing. Nothing better to do, I guess. I also want to clarify my suddenly in-demand "code of ethics". I never called into question that Brandon worked hard during games (he certainly did, because taking 15-20 shots every game has to have put alot of strain on him and Gerald). I was just a little disappointed that he implied that he wasn't giving his best already. That stuck out to me right away when I first read the article. I did no searching for a reason to bash him. And he is not defenseless - I am questioning remarks that he himself made. There is a plethora of things he could have said to show his excitement over the hiring; he did not have to say "I'll work harder for him" or whatever the exact quote was. In addition, the whole "ad hominem attack" thing, that was a little joke, a little sarcasm, using a popular phrase from the old board in reference to you saying that I was a liar. Sorry if you didn't pick it up. So many of you have decided to whine about me over the last few hours that I'm actually flattered. I guess all I can do is stress what I wanted to say in a_way that won't be so offensive to those who read_way too much into things. I guess I'll address what has been said about me one at a time. --HoyaPlaya, if he had said that there was a newfound sense of energy, then that's fine; it's to be expected. But that's not what he said. If that's what he means, that's what he should say. Is it too much to ask of someone to say what they mean? I don't think so. And for the record, I don't look back and say "man, I guess I didn't try hard enough". Whenever I do something, I give the best effort that I can. Why wouldn't I? Don't you? I mean, sometimes our best isn't good enough. But if we look back and say "I didn't try my best", then we dwell on that and live with the fact that we'll never know if we could have had better results. If you did your best and came up short, fine. But always putting in your best effort is a prerequisite for doing anything, if you ask me. --LongtimeFan, I don't quite understand your remark fully. I get the impression that you mean to say Brandon was belittled by Craig to the point where he doubted his own ability. If that's true, then some of the blame falls on the coach for that. But some of the blame falls on the player as well, because most coaches will yell at and criticize their players when they make mistakes. If the player wants to curl up into the fetal position in fear and self-doubt, then that's a sign of weakness. If they take it for what it is, as criticism to make them better players/people (or as parents like to say, "It's for your own good"), then they should strive to make sure they eliminate the flaw that led to the criticism (and exert 100% effort while doing so . My comments about whiny children were meant to link today's athlete to those little kids in their attitude. When my parents yelled at me (which they did ALOT), I got mad, but I knew to fix whatever it was that they didn't like, because after all, they knew more about life than I did. Coaches are like parents in that way, but more and more we see athletes transferring or demanding trades because they don't like when a coach gets on them. Those that can take it, well, they go play for Bobby Knight and Mike Krzyzyzyzyzyzyewski. I think those guys have been pretty successful coaches. Even John Thompson Jr. (I guess we have to add the suffix now) was known to be a little harsh, correct? I honestly ask because his time here was before mine, and I never really read anything about his style of coaching. --Finally, Mr Mccan...I'm not being self-righteous any more than you are. I just want maximum effort from all the players and coaches that are representing my school, and through extension, me. I will support them every way I can, and since they say they want that support, they need to give that effort in return. About your comment on my LOI comment, this is not an instance of a player not liking a coach "two years down the road". If you recall, he tried to transfer last summer, which means something was amiss during his very first months at the University. If you have questions about a coach's personality, ask around. I'm sure that someone will tell you the truth if he's hard to get along with. I never indicted the kid's character; he's a classmate of mine and I respect that he puts it on the line for us every night. I was just, well, kind of disappointed in what he said. Nobody is gonna come out and say "Yeah, I was phoning it in waiting for the coach to be canned last year", even if it's true. All he said was that he thought he would play hard for the new coach, which implies he wasn't doing it before. This all started after someone else agreed with me, and then you all pounced on me like a wounded animal. I said this before, but I'm done with this thread, for real this time. If you have beef with me on it, PM me or something.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,736
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 21, 2004 18:28:33 GMT -5
First off, SF, time between classes is fine for posting on the message board, which is what I was doing. Nothing better to do, I guess. I also want to clarify my suddenly in-demand "code of ethics". I never called into question that Brandon worked hard during games (he certainly did, because taking 15-20 shots every game has to have put alot of strain on him and Gerald). I was just a little disappointed that he implied that he wasn't giving his best already. That stuck out to me right away when I first read the article. I did no searching for a reason to bash him. And he is not defenseless - I am questioning remarks that he himself made. There is a plethora of things he could have said to show his excitement over the hiring; he did not have to say "I'll work harder for him" or whatever the exact quote was. In addition, the whole "ad hominem attack" thing, that was a little joke, a little sarcasm, using a popular phrase from the old board in reference to you saying that I was a liar. Sorry if you didn't pick it up. So many of you have decided to whine about me over the last few hours that I'm actually flattered. I guess all I can do is stress what I wanted to say in a_way that won't be so offensive to those who read_way too much into things. I guess I'll address what has been said about me one at a time. --HoyaPlaya, if he had said that there was a newfound sense of energy, then that's fine; it's to be expected. But that's not what he said. If that's what he means, that's what he should say. Is it too much to ask of someone to say what they mean? I don't think so. And for the record, I don't look back and say "man, I guess I didn't try hard enough". Whenever I do something, I give the best effort that I can. Why wouldn't I? Don't you? I mean, sometimes our best isn't good enough. But if we look back and say "I didn't try my best", then we dwell on that and live with the fact that we'll never know if we could have had better results. If you did your best and came up short, fine. But always putting in your best effort is a prerequisite for doing anything, if you ask me. --LongtimeFan, I don't quite understand your remark fully. I get the impression that you mean to say Brandon was belittled by Craig to the point where he doubted his own ability. If that's true, then some of the blame falls on the coach for that. But some of the blame falls on the player as well, because most coaches will yell at and criticize their players when they make mistakes. If the player wants to curl up into the fetal position in fear and self-doubt, then that's a sign of weakness. If they take it for what it is, as criticism to make them better players/people (or as parents like to say, "It's for your own good"), then they should strive to make sure they eliminate the flaw that led to the criticism (and exert 100% effort while doing so . My comments about whiny children were meant to link today's athlete to those little kids in their attitude. When my parents yelled at me (which they did ALOT), I got mad, but I knew to fix whatever it was that they didn't like, because after all, they knew more about life than I did. Coaches are like parents in that way, but more and more we see athletes transferring or demanding trades because they don't like when a coach gets on them. Those that can take it, well, they go play for Bobby Knight and Mike Krzyzyzyzyzyzyewski. I think those guys have been pretty successful coaches. Even John Thompson Jr. (I guess we have to add the suffix now) was known to be a little harsh, correct? I honestly ask because his time here was before mine, and I never really read anything about his style of coaching. --Finally, Mr Mccan...I'm not being self-righteous any more than you are. I just want maximum effort from all the players and coaches that are representing my school, and through extension, me. I will support them every way I can, and since they say they want that support, they need to give that effort in return. About your comment on my LOI comment, this is not an instance of a player not liking a coach "two years down the road". If you recall, he tried to transfer last summer, which means something was amiss during his very first months at the University. If you have questions about a coach's personality, ask around. I'm sure that someone will tell you the truth if he's hard to get along with. I never indicted the kid's character; he's a classmate of mine and I respect that he puts it on the line for us every night. I was just, well, kind of disappointed in what he said. Nobody is gonna come out and say "Yeah, I was phoning it in waiting for the coach to be canned last year", even if it's true. All he said was that he thought he would play hard for the new coach, which implies he wasn't doing it before. This all started after someone else agreed with me, and then you all pounced on me like a wounded animal. I said this before, but I'm done with this thread, for real this time. If you have beef with me on it, PM me or something. I guess consensus is that you're reading waaaay too much into Brandon's remark, and we're reading waaaay too much into yours.
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HoyaNJ5
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 238
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Post by HoyaNJ5 on Apr 21, 2004 19:18:27 GMT -5
Espn now has the Thompson's featured on the front of their College Basketball section. A more in-depth story with lots of quotes from Ronny are included. Ronny has stated that he does not plan to return to Georgetown, but does admit that he contemplated the idea for 2 days. Wow! Anyways, great read, and you cannot deny that the JT Jr. & JT III story is going to get us lots of media coverage for a while... sports.espn.go.com/ncb/index#GO HOYAS!!! I think it's safe to say that Ronnie Thompson was Katz's insider all those years at Georgetown.
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
Posts: 1,329
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Apr 21, 2004 20:15:23 GMT -5
I guess consensus is that you're reading waaaay too much into Brandon's remark, and we're reading waaaay too much into yours. SF, you're better than I am because I thought the consensus is that he was pretty full of it and himself. Yes, we all like to think we've given it all in everything we do, but if someone honestly thinks that they've done that then they are only kidding themselves. The goal is always to give it your all and those that are successful do it at a higher rate than those that don't, but no one ever can look back and see that they gave their all in everything that they did. There's no shame in that especially if you can recognize it and grow from it.
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Post by 1975hoya on Apr 21, 2004 22:58:14 GMT -5
The point was made by one of the TV commentators of Gtown's games at the end of the season that the parts were better than the whole. The blame belongs to players and coaches alike but the fact remains that the main responsibility rests with the head coach. He recruited the players and if the players were not giving their best effort he should have benched them. He played the same starting lineup the whole season even after the St. John's fiasco. Bowman< Causey and Cook appeared to be the only ones trying at times at the end of the season altough injuries and foul trouble may have been Freeman's main problem at the end of the year. Reed seemed to have a horrible attitude and was often observed to stand away from the team during time outs and sulked when taken out of games.You reap what you sow and unfortunately JTIII will be left with the responsibility to clean up this mess...it's going to take some time.
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TigerHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,808
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Post by TigerHoya on Apr 22, 2004 1:14:26 GMT -5
Test post
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Gold Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,578
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Post by Gold Hoya on Apr 22, 2004 7:55:13 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say that Ronnie Thompson was Katz's insider all those years at Georgetown. Definitely safe. I remember reading several opinions on the old board back when Ronnie left, to the effect of, "oh well, no more 'inside' stories from Andy Katz." Also, didn't Katz do a piece on Ronnie and Townes soon after Townes committed to Arkansas?
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Grandpa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 732
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Post by Grandpa on Apr 23, 2004 8:06:36 GMT -5
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Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
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Post by Boz on Apr 23, 2004 8:47:12 GMT -5
Since Thompson's father retired in 1999, the Hoyas have only made the playoffs once.
Allow me to quote the most quotable coach in the history of the NFL:
"Playoffs??? PLAYOFFS?!?!?"
Well, we didn't make the ALCS either, but I don't think we can pin that one on Esherick!
;D
(thanks for the article; hopefully III can move a little quicker than Carmody's expectations).
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