SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by SaxaCD on Apr 21, 2004 10:31:16 GMT -5
GU last year scored 67.2 and gave up 66.0 for all games. The Hoyas scored 61.8 and gave up 69.0 for Big East contests.
JT3's Princeton squad scored 62.9 for all games and gave up 56.8. They scored 64.5 and gave up 56.4 in conference games.
So this "slowdown" game would be such a shock? We averaged 4.3 points more than Princeton last year. Wow. Not exactly going from Westhead Loyola-Marymount to the four corners, in my opinion. If more "W"s come out of it, I will gladly give away those 4 points per. And I think eventually we'll score a decent amount more than Princeton did last year, anyway under JT3's system.
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SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by SaxaCD on Apr 21, 2004 10:36:54 GMT -5
Oh and the biggest stat, to me -- Princeton shot 48% last year and GU shot 41%. Do you know how many games we would have won the past few years if we could have just shot 40% or better? The thing I'm looking for the most is improvement in efficiency. That makes the defense work harder, and therefore takes a total on the opponents' offense, as well.
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SoCalHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
No es bueno
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Post by SoCalHoya on Apr 21, 2004 10:44:30 GMT -5
1) Re: PTI's comments. The Princeton offense's slow and methodical pace is a RESULT of the team's usual lack of athleticism. Princeton developed it so that it could outsmart opponents who were quicker and stronger (see PU v UCLA, 1996). It looks like JTIII was searching for a challenge, and to come home. He's a smart guy, I don't think he's going to employ the exact same sort of offense when he has the athletes we have at GU. Now, the good thing about the Princeton offense is that you can always fall back on it. You know, if Ashanti/BB and the rest of the team are in a scoring slump, you can always fall back on the fundamentals, slow it down and outsmart the opponent.
2) Re: BB's comments. Look, playing on a team sport is a very emotional thing. I've gone day-in, day-out playing hard for a coach I didn't like/believe in. I would wake up in the mornings going out there for my team, working out to make myself stronger, even make my coach proud. But somehow, when you get that special coach/leader, one you believe in and one that understands you, you subconsciously squeeze out even more effort and simultaneously enjoy it. It's hard to explain. Anyhow, I think that's what BB was getting at, he just didn't have time to sit there and think about it all day like the rest of us. I'm thrilled the team likes JT III. Let's just hope the future recruits do, too.
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Apr 21, 2004 11:06:14 GMT -5
They could go 0-30, but if they were really doing everything they could to succeed, I would still be very proud of them. Despite my anger toward Bowman's attitude, I will never do anything but cheer with all of my heart for him. Nonetheless, I cannot condone his attitude and it is my right to speak out against that. I like Bowman, and I never saw him tank it at all last year, but the notion that he would play harder for one coach rather than another is very disturbing. In high school I played for a coach who was an awful motivator and who had very poor relationships with numerous players. Some of those players played through that and still gave a legitimate effort; some used the coach as an excuse. That was not acceptable to me then, and it is not now. I'm not going to hold a grudge against Bowman. I will remember this comment but move on as a fan. Still, it is surprising that so many people condone his attitude. I don't know HoyaLove, I think you're possibly making more out of his quote than needs be made out of it. I played college football and played for two different defensive coordinators in my four years. I liked both guys and never tanked it in my opinion. However, my defensive coordinator my junior and senior year was such a great motivator and communicator that you would literally be mad at yourself if you screwed up not just because you let yourself down but also because you feel like you let him down. A lot of my defensive teammates felt the same way even though we could have given a hot damn about our head coach at the time. There are a lot of physical and mental sacrifices that are made behind the scenes that if you don't have that relationship with your players can have an effect on the performance on the field and/or court. Someone made a great point by saying that these are 18-22 year old kids still learning about work ethic and to scold Bowman for his comments without really understanding exactly what he means isn't right. I have a question for you: Have you ever looked back at the classes you've taken and thought that you may have had a better grade if the instructor/professor was a better motivator when it came to the course topics. This does happen and it also works both ways, as sometimes you get more out of people than what their natural ability would have gotten them. In the end, you are entitled to your opinion but that's just my thoughts.
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Post by RaleighHoya on Apr 21, 2004 11:32:51 GMT -5
Bowman had locker room issues at the end of last year. I am not saying he tanked anything, as I saw him trying as hard as he could in all of the games (or at least it appeared that way to me). I do think he needs to mature, and taking shots at a coach that is gone is not very mature. He is only 20 years old after all. A little tact will go a long way. That said, I feel that he tried his hardest last year.
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Massholya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Massholya on Apr 21, 2004 11:52:19 GMT -5
Playa, thanks for clarifying my points. You got the gist of the point I was trying to make exactly.
Hoyalove, I'm not trying to indict your value system. I just think we do a lot of pontificating and idealizing on this board. So far as self motivation goes, I don't believe it's some inherent trait that we either have or we don't. It's something one learns from watching and learning from others. Bowman, as well as every other member of this team, is still in his learning phase and the whether he does or does not possess these qualities at this point in his life speaks to the types of guidance he has had up to this point. I do believe that he is a hard worker and is clearly interested in winning. As far as the implication that he's somehow a quitter or not giving it his all, I didn't really see it this past season. What I did see was a frustrated, poorly organized, and at times, seemingly unmotivated TEAM. I don't think we need to take one comment and store it away as a black mark against a guy's character. Maybe we should go back to the days when players couldn't even talk to the media or maybe we should just teach these guys to regurgitate the same old tired cliche's. Of course, then all of us will have to find something else to discuss.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyarooter on Apr 21, 2004 12:14:45 GMT -5
I agree completely with Donk and Playa here, but I say that without intending to be critical of Joe or HoyaLover and their views (how's that for waffling?). While often out of control, I got the impression that Brandon was our hardest worker last year. After all, who else got any rebounds, and it isn't as though he's a man mountain out there. I think what we have here is a kid who isn't accustomed to answering questions from the press who made a poor choice of words. I think we should go easier on him.
Also, the PTI team's analysis of the Princeton offense is total idiocy (as well documented by someone earlier). I think they should explain to the Sacramento Kings how the offense is only intended for use by teams that want to slow it down.
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Post by RaleighHoya on Apr 21, 2004 12:16:18 GMT -5
Or the Nets, or NC State.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 21, 2004 12:36:35 GMT -5
Nice to know Mike Wise disposed entirely of that research thing. Using the internet for thirty minutes yields enough info on JTIII to put into an article. You'd think we hired JTII.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 21, 2004 12:39:12 GMT -5
I think it also says alot about Brandon, that he wasn't giving his best effort on the floor last season. That's inexcuseable. I don't care if you hate the coach. You're getting a full scholarship to play basketball. Give your best effort every day, every game. Remarks like that are nauseating to me. Glad to know Joe Hoya gives 100% at all times. Which, of course, is bs. If you know people at all, you wouldn't think less of Brandon for this. Leadership means something.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 21, 2004 12:42:33 GMT -5
I root hard for the Hoyas, and all I expect in return is their best effort. This is the most laughably stupid comment I've ever seen on this board. How can you possibly equate cheering for a team with playing, in terms of effort. Hey I root hard, too, but I don't get up at five every day to get in proper shape for it. As for your story about your high school coach, I guarantee you a better coach would've got more out of you.
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Joe Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
You're watching Sports Night on CSC, so stick around.
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Post by Joe Hoya on Apr 21, 2004 12:43:53 GMT -5
What I said had nothing to do with defending a former coach. It had everything to do with disturbing remarks made by our most talented player.
To imply that you need someone to motivate you to get on the floor to compete is flat-out not cool. I have about as little natural basketball talent as anyone on Earth, but I would sign the papers right now that would give me a full scholarship, a uniform, and a spot on the bench of a major division I university basketball program (which Georgetown still is, despite what some of you have said in the past). To think that someone with (most likely) professional aspirations would feel the need to say what he said, it's rather worrisome.
Another thing that bothers me - players are babied these days to the point that when someone yells at them (as a certain former coach has been known to do) for playing out of control or selfishly (which a certain most-talented-player-on-the-team has been known to do), they get Editeded at the world and want to transfer. That's ridiculous. When your parents yelled at you for talking back, did you try to get adopted by the family across the street? No. Grow up, take your lumps, and work harder to make sure that it doesn't happen again. And if you don't like a coach or don't "feel a chemistry" or whatever, DON'T SIGN THE LOI! Okay, end of unexpected rant.
Bottom line: coaches should be motivators, but players shouldn't need to be motivated. And that's all I'm going say on the subject.
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Joe Hoya
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Post by Joe Hoya on Apr 21, 2004 12:47:02 GMT -5
Glad to know Joe Hoya gives 100% at all times. Which, of course, is bs. If you know people at all, you wouldn't think less of Brandon for this. Leadership means something. I expect myself to give nothing less than my best effort in everything I do. It's just that I don't do anything that earns me $40,000+ in benefits a year that is seen on a regional/national stage by thousands of people with a vested interest in it. Oh, and by the way, screw you too, pal. Or should I say, "Please remove this ad hominem attack."
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 21, 2004 12:50:47 GMT -5
To imply that you need someone to motivate you to get on the floor to compete is flat-out not cool. You're inferring a helluva lot from a minor quote. Just because he thinks the team will work harder for JTIII doesn't mean they gave up or weren't motivated at all.
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Joe Hoya
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You're watching Sports Night on CSC, so stick around.
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Post by Joe Hoya on Apr 21, 2004 12:54:03 GMT -5
You're inferring a helluva lot from a minor quote. Just because he thinks the team will work harder for JTIII doesn't mean they gave up or weren't motivated at all. I know what the cliches say, but there is no way to work harder than your hardest. THAT's my point.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 21, 2004 12:59:07 GMT -5
I know what the cliches say, but there is no way to work harder than your hardest. THAT's my point. And my point is that it is almost impossible to work you hardest at all times. I think by the fact that we are having this debate during work hours (at least for me) that neither of us are working as hard as we could be. But I don't think that's a character flaw.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 21, 2004 13:00:26 GMT -5
I expect myself to give nothing less than my best effort in everything I do. It's just that I don't do anything that earns me $40,000+ in benefits a year that is seen on a regional/national stage by thousands of people with a vested interest in it. Oh, and by the way, screw you too, pal. Or should I say, "Please remove this ad hominem attack." Just want to make sure I got your code of ethics correct: Questioning the character of you: bad. Questioning the character of a player unable to defend himself: good. Got it.
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Apr 21, 2004 13:14:49 GMT -5
I know what the cliches say, but there is no way to work harder than your hardest. THAT's my point.[/quote This board is killing me today! Are you claiming that you've never done something and then looked back and said to yourself "I didn't give my all". The bad thing is that Bowman isn't even saying that much. Could it be possible that he was trying to say that from the brief meeting with JT III, he could see a renewed energy in the room of players that he hasn't seen over the last two years. It seems as this kid was only attempting to make a positive comment about the new coach and people on this board are trying to paint some picture as if he were a lazy, selfish ball player. Bowman has played hard and if you taped some of the games against real competition this year, you will see that not only was he the only one who seemed to measure up talent-wise with the competition, but he also seemed to play hard each time out there. In the real world (that I assume we both live in), there are some people who are able to motivate you to give more than you had previously given. Sometimes a good motivator can get you to give more than what you even realized was possible. In this case, it may just have been a poor choice of words but not poor enough that he should be attacked on this board the way some have today.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 21, 2004 13:44:33 GMT -5
From the Daily quickie on ESPN:
"Hoyas Hire JT III John Thompson III is a great hire for Georgetown, but more for where he's been than who he is. That "Princeton offense" works wonders, and it'll give the mediocre Hoyas a chance to compete in the loaded Big East.
Look at Northwestern or Air Force: When only one team in a league runs it, it's more than a novelty; most teams don't have the prep time to devote to solving it."
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MEGAFAN
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by MEGAFAN on Apr 21, 2004 14:14:51 GMT -5
Espn now has the Thompson's featured on the front of their College Basketball section. A more in-depth story with lots of quotes from Ronny are included. Ronny has stated that he does not plan to return to Georgetown, but does admit that he contemplated the idea for 2 days. Wow! Anyways, great read, and you cannot deny that the JT Jr. & JT III story is going to get us lots of media coverage for a while... sports.espn.go.com/ncb/index#GO HOYAS!!!
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