Joe Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
You're watching Sports Night on CSC, so stick around.
Posts: 1,236
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Post by Joe Hoya on Mar 10, 2006 21:55:41 GMT -5
The title of this thread mirrors the first words out of my mouth after the buzzer. I have no delusions of making any major noise the rest of the month. I don't think we can win the national championship - there are just too many good teams out there, and we won't be able to put together six straight top-notch performances in my mind. That said, I saw the Big East Tournament, especially after Connecticut lost, as a real chance to do something special. As a senior, I've seen some rough times for Georgetown basketball. I wanted to go out with a 2006 BIG EAST Champions T-shirt on under my dress shirt at commencement. We had a real shot at it, too. But instead it was the same old same old. We still could have won this game, even after they went ahead. Coach Thompson burned through his timeouts like they were going out of style in the second half. We had one left. Why did we save it if we weren't going to use it? I totally understand the idea of letting the play flow and letting the players make plays. But when you've led for the entire game, and then watched the lead steadily slip away, culminating in a transition layup with less than ten seconds left...CALL THE EFFING TIMEOUT. The players have just (figuratively) been hit over the head with a steel chair. They're shellshocked. We couldn't believe what happened, and neither could they. Call the timeout, get them focused on getting a shot - not even a good shot, just ANY shot would have been nice, thank you - and give yourself a chance to re-steal the game. I think our coaches probably couldn't believe we blew it either. And fellas...there is no excuse for a scholarship player in Division I basketball to miss free throws. They are FREE. They come from the same spot every time. I understand that fatigue plays a role (the "third game in as many days" rule manifested itself right in our faces tonight) in missing these FREE POINTS, but come on...next week, MAKE YOUR FREE THROWS. Again, from this point on, every game could be my last. So to the team and the coaching staff, I say thanks for everything...and for nothing. sounds like you just started liking them...good luck in finding a new Team... Do not even go there. Not to make what sounds like a personal attack or veiled threat, but I'm going to assume you only said that because you have the anonymity of the internet protecting you. I'm not about to measure someone's fanhood by the number of posts they make to a message board, but if you've really been a member of the board for two years, you wouldn't even think that. Maybe I'm the only one who feels that way, but like I said, I'm a senior and have put a lot of time and effort into supporting the team. This is how they repay me, time and time again. This is the team I saw for three and a half years...not the team that beat Duke or had a real nice middle of the season this year...but the team that craps the floor against Syracuse in a big game.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 10, 2006 22:04:54 GMT -5
Joe,
Almost every team loses their last game. This game sucked, but winning the BET isn't exactly a birthright. I can understand being frustrated, but you act as if the team losing is a personal betrayal.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 10, 2006 22:22:03 GMT -5
If there's no excuse for any D1 player to miss free throws EVER, then every D1 player doesn't deserve their scholarship. It happens.
We outrebounded them. We beat them to the majority of the loose balls. We shot better from the field. We did everything we had to do to win the game... except hit our FTs down the stretch. Coaching and hustle have nothing to do with tonight.
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Post by theEDGEfactor on Mar 10, 2006 22:22:54 GMT -5
how much taller are we than syr and heck anyother team, ya its great to outrebound a team by 10 but we prolly got a 3 inch advantage at the 3-5
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757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,999
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Post by 757hoyafan on Mar 10, 2006 22:50:02 GMT -5
sounds like you just started liking them...good luck in finding a new Team... Do not even go there. Not to make what sounds like a personal attack or veiled threat, but I'm going to assume you only said that because you have the anonymity of the internet protecting you. I'm not about to measure someone's fanhood by the number of posts they make to a message board, but if you've really been a member of the board for two years, you wouldn't even think that. Maybe I'm the only one who feels that way, but like I said, I'm a senior and have put a lot of time and effort into supporting the team. This is how they repay me, time and time again. This is the team I saw for three and a half years...not the team that beat Duke or had a real nice middle of the season this year...but the team that craps the floor against Syracuse in a big game. I posted more on the old board, but trust me I'm on this website damn near every day...I'm 29 & GU has been my ONLY College Bball team since I was about 7 years old. I made my comment because you mentioned "giving up" ---why, if this is your squad? I didnt take your post as a threat..
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Post by FHillsNYHoya on Mar 10, 2006 22:57:02 GMT -5
You guys are crazy.....the title of this thread is absurd.....we lost this game b/c they hit a ridiculous amount of big shots in the 2nd half and we missed five free throws in a row with the game on the line. We were not outcoached, outhustled, or outplayed. I'm aggravated more now than I was when sitting in Section 112 during the game seeing the posts on this board.
We were brutal from the line. If we hit our free throws, we're playing tomorrow night - even though they hit HUGE shots in the second half. Repeatedly. At least now I'm not the most PO'ed Hoyas fan tonight. Got on the train right after the game ended. Couldn't stomach another minute.
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
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Post by FLHoya on Mar 10, 2006 23:09:00 GMT -5
The worst game I ever saw Georgetown play was the quarterfinal of the BET in 2001 against Seton Hall. A week later, the next game we played...was the birth of Generation Burton.
We've all been through some pretty rough patches as fans no matter what the age. If you're a younger alum (or older current student), these are particularly painful and recent.
I won't deny the severe emotional trauma of this game. I'm giving myself a day or so to step away and consider, but talking to my longtime friend and roommate after the game tonight, we agreed that this was (for now) the most painful loss we've witnessed since we came to GU six years ago. The only thing I could come up with to compare to the sense of deflation at the end of this game was the Jaron Brown game against Pitt.
I won't deny the premise of this thread either--we were [all three of those things] in the second half. And it shouldn't be acceptible...talk about an obvious remark, we say things like that sometimes on the board and we OUGHT to hit ourselves w/ a frying pan for doing so...no kidding it's not, and no kidding the staff/players realize that!
But the point is...in the grand scheme of things, what tonight's game means...is that a lot of us probably have a suddenly free schedule tomorrow night.
Sunday is a day and a half away. The first round of the tournament is a week hence. And I've learned one thing over 6 years, from a team that's gone from the dark day in NYC to Nat Burton Day, from 50-47 against USF to "We Beat Duke," hell even from a 15 point halftime lead to a deflating loss that we'll remember for years to come...
...you can't ever give up on this. Because...and this is the thing I kept repeating at the campout the night before/morning of the Duke game...
you never know when you're about to witness something great.
[That's the end of FLHoya's Chicken Soup blah blah blah...whatever] ;D
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HoyaSpirit
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Gotta love Smitty - 1989 Big East Player of the Year
Posts: 305
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Post by HoyaSpirit on Mar 11, 2006 0:18:44 GMT -5
I just saw this post - wow - I think JT3 really bombed in the second half there. I love him a lot and think he has done a good job game coaching mostly but this game he was horribly off-track. And as someone said before - I hope he learns from it - just tough to have it be bet against cuse in the semis.
Our offense stalled for about 15 mins straight in the second half to end the game and he did not adjust or anything.
You cannot wait for only 10 seconds on the clock to START looking for a good shot. Sure be patient and all that, but start looking for a good shot early in the shot clock, and if a really good shot is not there for you, then wait a bit.
But we were waiting until 10 seconds were left and then being forced to take really bad shots in a rush as a result. It also allows them to sort of rest for the first 15-20 secs of the clock, where their arms are up but they're not running around in the least. Make the d work the whole shot clock and they get worn thin and an opening for an easy shot comes to us.
Against any zone d, if we wait until 10 secs left to start, we're going to probably average 20-25% shooting in those instances. Against man to man it's easier to wait until 10 secs left, but still hurts us sometimes.
The other thing that hurts is our offensive rebounds are effected, because when we force up a shot with 2 secs left - all their guys are in place and ready to rebound. When we've forced the d to run around a lot during the clock, they're out of place a lot more and that allows us to get in for more rebounds.
We do best when we work for a shot the whole clock, and take opportunities earlier on when they present themselves. It still keeps the pace in our favor, but our % goes way up.
JT3 should have known much better.
Same goes as people have mentioned about the lack of covering gmac in the 2nd half. Perhaps there were a couple of lapses by players, but the coaches should get them back on track quickly.
If we had simply started looking and working for good shots earlier in the shot clock, our shooting % the second half would have gone way up, and the FTs wouldn't have mattered at all and we would have won by 5 points.
Toss in somewhat better defense on gmac and we would have won by 8-11 points.
I think JT3 is a better game coach than his pop (one of pops worst traits as SFHoya noted was his delay of game tactic that caused us lots of losses), but this game sucked for him, and it particularly sucked b/c to beat cuse in the bet semis and to get back to the finals again would have been awesome and a huge statement, and even a mild change in game plan would have won it for us, and a decent change of plan would have won it by 10 points.
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miamihoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 698
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Post by miamihoya on Mar 11, 2006 0:23:02 GMT -5
We were not outcoached!! Boeheim's strategy was "give it Gerry and see what happens" and "play the zone better". Granted our coaching strategy was no better, but it was no worse. Their players beat our players and coaches on both sides canceled each other out. Ya lets not give Boheim too much credit...the only reason the orange are at the final is because mr. overated had three miracle shots in three days that probably would only go in 3 out of 10 times. And you cant credit our missed free throws to the coaching either.
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LeRoyHoya
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 165
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Post by LeRoyHoya on Mar 11, 2006 0:23:41 GMT -5
The prevent defense in football has been known to "prevent" you from winning. We went into prevent mode tonight. There was an excellent example late in the game when a couple Cuse players were knocked down and we had numbers the other way and were content to pull it out. I think we need to let these guys get out and run a little. We can't let the clock get to 10 every time down the floor, before running our offense. Also, please no more possessions where our big guys play thrown the ball to each other in the lane three staright times. We were passing up open 8' shots for contested 7' shots.
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ephoya04
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 387
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Post by ephoya04 on Mar 11, 2006 0:28:14 GMT -5
Just to keep a little perspective...forget for a second how we lost and who lost to...at the beginning of the season if someone would've told you we would end the season in the top 25, make it to BET semis and have wins over the 2 teams playing in the finals as well as a win over the then undefeated #1 team in the country, you CANNOT honestly say that you would call that a bad season. Did losing tonight in the fashion we did suck? ABSOLUTELY. Nonetheless lets just keep some perspective.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on Mar 11, 2006 0:32:12 GMT -5
If someone told me all that, THEN also told me we lost to an 0-15 BE team, AND told me we were up 15 with a chance to go to the BET finals.... I'd be pretty bummed.
LOOK, ultimately these senior will be judged on what happens in the Dance. If we make a mark, do well, they will be remembered as winners who helped turn us around. If we crap out first round, they will be remembered as one of the biggest losing classes at GU in the post-72 era.
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Bay99
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 510
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Post by Bay99 on Mar 11, 2006 0:33:47 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure this has been asked before, and perhaps I'm just having a difficult time finding my happy place, but is the_way one of the assistant coaches? Has anyone ever defended coaches so blindly in the history of sports fandom? It doesn't seem to matter who it is. It's puzzling. But he's entitled to his opinion, as we all are.
I cannot believe we lost that game. I could care less who's at fault. I am literally floored (seriously, didn't get off the floor for what seemed like a week) ... chuck USF out the window, this is a true stomach punch game. Easy to say now, but I have no doubt the BET title was ours if we had closed this one out.
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nodak89
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Roy Roy Royyyyy!!!
Posts: 1,881
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Post by nodak89 on Mar 11, 2006 0:36:19 GMT -5
"Outcoached, outhustled and outplayed"
1. Outcoached What brilliant moves by Boeheim won them the game? (none)
2. Outhustled How many offensive rebounds did we have? (lots)
3. Outplayed Um, yeah. We lost. (duh)
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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 11, 2006 0:43:42 GMT -5
If someone told me all that, THEN also told me we lost to an 0-15 BE team, AND told me we were up 15 with a chance to go to the BET finals.... I'd be pretty bummed. LOOK, ultimately these senior will be judged on what happens in the Dance. If we make a mark, do well, they will be remembered as winners who helped turn us around. If we crap out first round, they will be remembered as one of the biggest losing classes at GU in the post-72 era. I would call last year's senior class the biggest losing class since the post-72 era. But none of them were playing for us, save DJ (who doesn't really count). In my mind, Bethel/Hall/Thomas are the biggest losers of all.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on Mar 11, 2006 0:47:04 GMT -5
We did look tired in the second half today- tired legs means no FTs. I am still mad as hell, I take no excuses for this crappy loss, but the FTs were crucial, I thought so at the time.
I still think the jury's out on the legacy of this year's seniors... they need a good tourney run to cement their legacy. Without it, they will be among the biggest losers, if not the biggest.
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Grandpa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 732
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Post by Grandpa on Mar 11, 2006 1:10:33 GMT -5
We did look tired in the second half today- tired legs means no FTs. I am still mad as hell, I take no excuses for this crappy loss, but the FTs were crucial, I thought so at the time. I still think the jury's out on the legacy of this year's seniors... they need a good tourney run to cement their legacy. Without it, they will be among the biggest losers, if not the biggest. C'mon now - I'm as frustrated with this loss as anyone, but are these claims about our seniors being the "biggest losers" really necessary?
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Joe Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
You're watching Sports Night on CSC, so stick around.
Posts: 1,236
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Post by Joe Hoya on Mar 11, 2006 5:45:14 GMT -5
I didn't say anything about giving up. I just said we aren't a national championship-caliber team this year, and I won't pretend we are. The fact that the conference championship was within reach (and, with Villanova's loss, very very VERY attainable) makes tonight's collapse absolutely devastating.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 11, 2006 8:29:04 GMT -5
"Outcoached, outhustled and outplayed" 1. Outcoached What brilliant moves by Boeheim won them the game? (none) 2. Outhustled How many offensive rebounds did we have? (lots) 3. Outplayed Um, yeah. We lost. (duh) (1) Boeheim made adjustments in their zone at halftime that made it a little tougher to get the ball to the middle. Our response? Toss the ball around the outside for 29 seconds, then take an off-balance jumper(shades of Esh!);(2)We had plenty of offensive boards in the first half, fewer in the second half - and as SU started to come back, they beat us down the floor over and over again, playing with an intensity we desperately lacked; (3)They played smarter, harder, and better than we did in the second half. 'Nuf said.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Mar 11, 2006 9:36:39 GMT -5
A question to the board: if you were coaching this team and had a 15 point lead at the half, would'nt you have tried to slow the game down and milk the clock as much as you could before taking a shot? I would. The free throws killed us, not coaching.
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