Doyel rips Green and Bowman

[georgetowngrad05]

Man, can't you give credit to the two reasons we beat Duke.

Jeff Green and Brandon Bowman, Georgetown: Maybe strong games in the upset of Duke will get them going, because their combined drop-off has been baffling. After starring as a do-everything freshman, Green's numbers are down across the board, most notably scoring (from 13.1 ppg to 10.3) and shooting (from 40 percent on 3-pointers to 29.3 percent). Bowman's numbers have been dropping for years. From highs of 15.9 ppg and 8.1 rebounds as a sophomore, he's down to 11.9 and 5.5 as a senior. Part of that is the arrival of Green and the development of center Roy Hibbert. But only part.

www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9185138

[fsohoya]

Doyel ought to look at the whole picture. What could be better than a team with balanced scoring? It's not that Green's numbers have dropped off, it's that so many other people are stepping up.

[Big Dog]

Doyel is absolutely right. He's simply repeating things that have been mentioned on this board for weeks prior to the Duke game. The Duke performance provides great reason to hope things will permanently change, but one game does not a trend (much less a season) make. Here's hoping BB and Green keep it up again tonight.

[ephoya04]

One of the least intelligent comments I've read in a while...THANK YOU Mr. Doyel...what an #$^%$%

[njcoach]

Right. And as their box score numbers have diminished, the team is winning more often and against better teams.

[doublehoya]

I think he is right on Bowman, but I hope Bowman proves him wrong in the coming weeks!

As for Jeff, as has been said on the board countless times, his stats are down because of Roy's coming out this season, and contributes in so many more ways than his stats could reflect. Looks like Doyel is looking solely at numbers (and the Duke game), not actual performances.

This is just lazy reporting, IMO.

[RDF]

I'm not going to get mad at Doyel as he's been very complimentary of the program and at least mentioned GU when many others don't even notice. I'd also like to point out that this might serve GU well as this can't hurt in terms of motivation for guys--who might not know about it, but eventually will hear about it. I look how the SR's responded in the pre-ND articles above and them mentioning the "doubters" is good to hear--because all they have to do to avoid being doubted is play aggressive, tough, and together--and win or lose, fans will be pleased. (doesn't hurt that if you play this way, you'll win a lot more then you lose).

[uptownhoya]

The reason for the drop off is a more balanced attack via the princeton offense. I am a guy who used to play a modified version of this offense in highschool. You realize the drop occurs with more hands touching the ball and fewer possessions (thus less ppg for all players). Couple that with the learning curve of a new system that's 1 1/2 yrs old (far from the old Craig Days of dump it into the big man or throw up a shot). Unlike when NC State ran the system with J. Hodge as its focal point, our system changes depending on who is in the line up (usually from Roy, Green, and sparingly AKD) to open the passing lanes for the back door cuts of the guards/fowards. Anyway Doyle is a loser who makes a career as a fire starter. Opinions are like butt holes, everybody has one... Beat ND today Hoyas and take care of the ball & boards. Consistency
-Class of '05 4 Life baby

[Big Dog]

Kind of a quick turn on Doyel isn't it? People were loving it when he was praising like crazy about the recruits we've drawn and openly and publicly bashing Calhoun's antics in a way we haven't seen anyplace else.

I also think its a mischaraceterization to say that there was unanimous board agreement that there was nothing wrong or disappointing about Jeff Green's performance this year prior to Duke. Maybe some numerical drop could be expected, but there were certainly some games in which he looked nothing like the player we all saw last year.

[IlladelpHoya]

Doyel is not wrong. Brandon and Jeff have both been maddeningly inconsistent this year ... disappearing for large chunks of games (and occasionally from entire games as well)

For Jeff, this is not unexpected. After taking the Big East by storm last season, it was almost inevitable that he would find himself struggling to maintain the same level of performance game in and game out. It's almost as though there's something that often happens to players in their second season. Some sort of sluggishness or stasis or something else alliterative - I'm sure somebody has a catchy name for it.

While part of this is due to Roy's ability to handle more of the scoring, that's not completely it. In recent games before Duke, Jeff has looked hesitant on offense, passing up open looks and avoiding taking on slower, smaller defenders. If it's a confidence issue, then hopefully Saturday was what he needed, because he can often be the best player on the court . And it was nice to see him hit a 3-pointer again.

Brandon, on the other hand, seems to have an on/off button somewhere between his shoulder blades. Immensely talented and a decent decision maker, his disappearance in games is less excusable. When he is driven to perform well (national television audience, potential for positive media exposure), he is a monster -- at other times, I don't know ... With the Hoyas back in the Top 25 and a couple of highly anticipated games ahead, Brandon keeping his focus will be the difference between a ticket to the dance or another home game at McDonough.

And, Brandon is a smart dude - he knows that a couple more performances like Saturday's is HIS ticket to an ill-fitting hat and an awkward photo in New York next summer.

[SirSaxa]

bigdog said:

Kind of a quick turn on Doyel isn't it? People were loving it when he was praising like crazy about the recruits we've drawn and openly and publicly bashing Calhoun's antics in a way we haven't seen anyplace else.

I also think its a mischaraceterization to say that there was unanimous board agreement that there was nothing wrong or disappointing about Jeff Green's performance this year prior to Duke. Maybe some numerical drop could be expected, but there were certainly some games in which he looked nothing like the player we all saw last year.

Thank you for posting an honest and realistic perspective.

And let's hope that Jeff, BB and all the guys, play up to their potential and more consistently for here on out. We can't expect the incredible effort of the DUke game every night, but everyone now has seen what these guys can do.

Let's hope we come closer to that level of play. I think they will.... starting tonight! In fact, Owens post-game comments ("this doesn't mean anything if we don't beat ND", etc.) were the most reassuring I've read. Now is the time to give Doyel every reason to sing our praises.

[aggypryd]

Bowman played very well against 2 top 5 teams in a week's span...

I like that he's producing against good competition with formidable front-courts...

I hope Brandon, Jeff, and Roy keep up the good work...

Very good to see smart, solid play from Sapp and Egerson off the bench...

[Big Dog]

illadelphoya said:

It's almost as though there's something that often happens to players in their second season. Some sort of sluggishness or stasis or something else alliterative - I'm sure somebody has a catchy name for it.

I believe what you're looking for is "sophomore slump." Well crafted.

[FormerHoya]

illadelphoya said:

Doyel is not wrong. Brandon and Jeff have both been maddeningly inconsistent this year ... disappearing for large chunks of games (and occasionally from entire games as well)

For Jeff, this is not unexpected. After taking the Big East by storm last season, it was almost inevitable that he would find himself struggling to maintain the same level of performance game in and game out. It's almost as though there's something that often happens to players in their second season. Some sort of sluggishness or stasis or something else alliterative - I'm sure somebody has a catchy name for it.

While part of this is due to Roy's ability to handle more of the scoring, that's not completely it. In recent games before Duke, Jeff has looked hesitant on offense, passing up open looks and avoiding taking on slower, smaller defenders. If it's a confidence issue, then hopefully Saturday was what he needed, because he can often be the best player on the court . And it was nice to see him hit a 3-pointer again.

Brandon, on the other hand, seems to have an on/off button somewhere between his shoulder blades. Immensely talented and a decent decision maker, his disappearance in games is less excusable. When he is driven to perform well (national television audience, potential for positive media exposure), he is a monster -- at other times, I don't know ... With the Hoyas back in the Top 25 and a couple of highly anticipated games ahead, Brandon keeping his focus will be the difference between a ticket to the dance or another home game at McDonough.

And, Brandon is a smart dude - he knows that a couple more performances like Saturday's is HIS ticket to an ill-fitting hat and an awkward photo in New York next summer.

I'd like to thank you for becoming my favorite new poster. Everything thus far has been very good.

But now, as your official initiation, I'm gonna need to see some sort of slap-fight with the_way.

[RBHoya]

They have both been more inconsistent, but that's not independent of the fact that other players have stepped up and got the hot hand a number of times (Roy early, Ashanti at Oregon, DJ a number of times, even Jon here and there).

Our record is better than it was at this time last year, and we're in much better shape than we were in 2 years ago. So, really, who gives a crap if Brandon's numbers are down from 2 years ago (or Jeff's from last year). Did Doyel SEE this team 2 years ago? What matters most is W's and L's, even to 2 guys who are trying to enhance their professional prospects. Doyel's comment seems unneccessary since we're winning more games, and worse, it seems like really bad timing after an enormous win for us. Maybe if he had said this before the Duke game, I wouldn't care so much, but calling them out for their stats after they just played career games?

[Big Dog]

I think you'd have a hard time disputing that the W/L record could be even better if Green and Bowman had played more consistently. Think first-half Illinois, Vanderbilt, Bowman vs. WVU, etc.

[lichoya68]

GIMME A BREAK A DOESNOT THE MAN LOOK AT JEFF GREENS ASSISTS ....AND EVEN BILAS SAID HE THINKS HES THE BEST BIG IN THE COUNTRY.... YES BIG IN THE COUNTRY .....FOR HIS ALLL AROUND PLAY LIKE THE ASSITS AND SCREENS .... SURE HE AN BOBO NEED TO SCORE POINTS .....BUT THAT AINT ALL ...... LET THEM CRITICIZE AND LET US WIN..... GO HOYAS ........NEED TO BEAT ND ..... REALLY NEED TO ........ ;DNO LET DOWNS... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[RBHoya]

bigdog said:

I think you'd have a hard time disputing that the W/L record could be even better if Green and Bowman had played more consistently. Think first-half Illinois, Vanderbilt, Bowman vs. WVU, etc.

Same can be said for any other team. You're much more likely to not play as well against top teams like Illinois, WVU, etc. I think the reason for their inconsistency was level of opponent, so if you think the inconsistency led to the loss, than the quality of opponent also is responsible.

I mean, if the guys on Maryland played as well against Duke and GW as they did in every other game, they'd win. If the guys on Iowa could play the way they play against most other teams against MSU, they'd win. If the guys on Syracuse could play as well against UConn as they did in most of their other games, they'd win too. And if Jeff and Brandon had played as well against Illinois as they do in most other games, yea, we probably would've won that won too. But it's easier said than done.

Sometimes there's a reason that they aren't playing well, and it doesn't mean that they're not trying hard.

[SFHoya99]

Doyel's usually very good, but he simply didn't do his homework.

Comparing Brandon to sophomore year is a joke because of pace issues.

Minimizing the impact of Roy and a consistent Darrell Owens, along with JW's improved offense is wrong as well.

Both Brandon and Jeff have performed a bit worse this year shooting, I think, but it isn't the dropoff Doyel calls out.

[Big Dog]

rbhoya said:

bigdog said:

I think you'd have a hard time disputing that the W/L record could be even better if Green and Bowman had played more consistently. Think first-half Illinois, Vanderbilt, Bowman vs. WVU, etc.

Same can be said for any other team. You're much more likely to not play as well against top teams like Illinois, WVU, etc. I think the reason for their inconsistency was level of opponent, so if you think the inconsistency led to the loss, than the quality of opponent also is responsible.

I mean, if the guys on Maryland played as well against Duke and GW as they did in every other game, they'd win. If the guys on Iowa could play the way they play against most other teams against MSU, they'd win. If the guys on Syracuse could play as well against UConn as they did in most of their other games, they'd win too. And if Jeff and Brandon had played as well against Illinois as they do in most other games, yea, we probably would've won that won too. But it's easier said than done.

Sometimes there's a reason that they aren't playing well, and it doesn't mean that they're not trying hard.

What about @ James Madison, when they combined for 10 points?

Or against Fairfield, where JG had 2 points?

Or Colgate, where JG had 5 on 1-6 FGs?

Or Providence, where JG had 2 on 0-4 FGs?

Or against USF, where they combined for 11 pts?

Saturday made up for all of that, and we were fortunate that none of those teams I've listed were good enough to beat us even when one or both of these guys struggled. And maybe Doyel's making the point about 3 days later than he should have. But he's not completely off-base and he isn't an "idiot" as some have called him. I'd be surprised if any of us, who were so worried just a few months ago that Green would be NBA-bound after this season, expected to see a list of five games against such weak opponents in which Green had such a hard time scoring.