conshyhoya
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Post by conshyhoya on Apr 23, 2024 14:04:47 GMT -5
I don't view Fielder and Karaban as similar. Karaban is more of a perimeter defender where Fielder is not. Fielder seems like a quasi 4/5 that really struggles to defend, particularly out of the paint. While he can step out and hit shots, he's not a guy that is going to create a ton of offense outside of the paint outside of stand still 3 pointers. Fielder had a promising freshman season but we need to pump the breaks a little bit. He didn't play as much as he could have bc he got abused very often on defense. He did get abused on defensive but so did they guys that replaced him (Massoud and Cook) and at times they were way worse so that shouldn't have been why he wasn't on the floor.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 23, 2024 14:07:19 GMT -5
I don't view Fielder and Karaban as similar. Karaban is more of a perimeter defender where Fielder is not. Fielder seems like a quasi 4/5 that really struggles to defend, particularly out of the paint. While he can step out and hit shots, he's not a guy that is going to create a ton of offense outside of the paint outside of stand still 3 pointers. Fielder had a promising freshman season but we need to pump the breaks a little bit. He didn't play as much as he could have bc he got abused very often on defense. He showed the ability on numerous occasions to drive to the basket with both hands and finish with both hands when he got there. This revisionism of him being some one dimensional stiff who just planted himself beyond the three point line is nonsense that has got to stop. Once again perception compared to reality.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 23, 2024 14:09:16 GMT -5
Karaban looks better than he is because he had Sanogo/Clingan to cover for his mistakes defensively. Fielder would look equally as good defensively if he had an elite rim protector behind him. Fielder is a more explosive, athletic, physical version of the soft Karaban. There is a reason Cooley recruited both of them. Not arguing that Karaban doesnt get helped by having rim protection but Fielder still got blown by with ease way too often. I dont view Fielder as more athletic To me Fielder was getting lost. On some plays he didn’t know whether to stay down low or cover the 3pt line. He was stuck in between which is more of a mental thing and also our not having a rim protector in the paint. If Fielder had Sanogo/Clingan to erase mistakes he could strictly concentrate on using his length to cover the 3 pt shooter. It wouldn’t matter if a small 4 blew by him since you have Clingan waiting to erase it. At worst you give up a long mid range on the blow by (worst shot in the history of basketball according to 2003) Karabab was in a dream situation for a stretch 4 because he just has to concertante on not giving up the 3.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 23, 2024 14:10:32 GMT -5
I for one don’t want Fielder to be punished because 80% of teams want to play Small Ball by putting a 6’6 guy at the four spot. Fielder may have difficulties chasing guys like that all over the court but they would not be able contest his long range shots or keep him off the boards for put backs or stop him from posting up. Good coaching means not letting other teams dictate how you play or how your lineup looks like. I pray that Cooley allows Georgetown to exploit its size over teams who have nothing but big guards to play PF. Besides Fielder is not some Don Reid type big who can only play in the paint. He can face up and pull defenders out to the perimeter . A legitimate stretch four. Not letting other teams dictate how you play requires that your players execute successfully and punish the opponent for not adapting to you. No successful execution relative to your opponents, and you will be forced to adapt to them. I am in total agreement with your take.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 23, 2024 14:23:00 GMT -5
I for one don’t want Fielder to be punished because 80% of teams want to play Small Ball by putting a 6’6 guy at the four spot. Fielder may have difficulties chasing guys like that all over the court but they would not be able contest his long range shots or keep him off the boards for put backs or stop him from posting up. Good coaching means not letting other teams dictate how you play or how your lineup looks like. I pray that Cooley allows Georgetown to exploit its size over teams who have nothing but big guards to play PF. Besides Fielder is not some Don Reid type big who can only play in the paint. He can face up and pull defenders out to the perimeter . A legitimate stretch four. He's not a legitimate stretch four until he can somewhat defend fours, and that includes the huge number of undersized or stretch fours. He's got to create bigger mismatches than he gives up. While the coaching staff can help with that, the players needs to step up as well as improve defensively as much as they can. Play smart, rotate properly, work on lateral movement. They also need to effectively punish the other side -- to your point, that means working off the ball in terms of making cuts and offensive rebounding. Fielder isn't likely to be the center of the offense, so he needs to punish a smaller 4 if he players there without the ball. If he does all that, he'll be fine. If he doesn't, there's only so much that coaching can compensate. The biggest thing that would help Fielder's defense aside from his own improvement, frankly, is a teammate down low. Either someone to allow him to pressure outside that can help defend when he's beat or a 4 man who can allow him to play center. You saw how bad the rest of the team was on defense last season, right? You know how bad their defensive ratings were compared to Fielder? How was it they were allowed free roam on the court for exhaustive minutes and we accepted that? But the thought of a guy who may have similar defensive issues but at least had enough of a pulse on offense that defenders had to guard him is considered too much of a risk to put out on the court? There was this one play at Xavier in which the ball was flung to Drew (who had yet to take a shot) and both Sean Miller and an assistant coach immediately yelled at one of their guys to get up on him and defend the outside shot. Drew drove right pass that defender with his left hand and scored with a left hand scoop underneath the hoop. This is something a guy like Ish could not do and I don’t think whatever Ish brought on the defensive end justified being scared stiff to have Drew on the floor defending the opponent.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 23, 2024 14:31:34 GMT -5
He's not a legitimate stretch four until he can somewhat defend fours, and that includes the huge number of undersized or stretch fours. He's got to create bigger mismatches than he gives up. While the coaching staff can help with that, the players needs to step up as well as improve defensively as much as they can. Play smart, rotate properly, work on lateral movement. They also need to effectively punish the other side -- to your point, that means working off the ball in terms of making cuts and offensive rebounding. Fielder isn't likely to be the center of the offense, so he needs to punish a smaller 4 if he players there without the ball. If he does all that, he'll be fine. If he doesn't, there's only so much that coaching can compensate. The biggest thing that would help Fielder's defense aside from his own improvement, frankly, is a teammate down low. Either someone to allow him to pressure outside that can help defend when he's beat or a 4 man who can allow him to play center. You saw how bad the rest of the team was on defense last season, right? You know how bad their defensive ratings were compared to Fielder? How was it they were allowed free roam on the court for exhaustive minutes and we accepted that? But the thought of a guy who may have similar defensive issues but at least had enough of a pulse on offense that defenders had to guard him is considered too much of a risk to put out on the court? There was this one play at Xavier in which the ball was flung to Drew (who had yet to take a shot) and both Sean Miller and an assistant coach immediately yelled at one of their guys to get up on him and defend the outside shot. Drew drove right pass that defender with his left hand and scored with a left hand scoop underneath the hoop. This is something a guy like Ish could not do and I don’t think whatever Ish brought on the defensive end justified being scared stiff to have Drew on the floor defending the opponent. Ish used up his eligibility so it’s inefficient for Boya to bash him a lot compared to a current active player like Drew.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 23, 2024 14:43:18 GMT -5
You saw how bad the rest of the team was on defense last season, right? You know how bad their defensive ratings were compared to Fielder? How was it they were allowed free roam on the court for exhaustive minutes and we accepted that? But the thought of a guy who may have similar defensive issues but at least had enough of a pulse on offense that defenders had to guard him is considered too much of a risk to put out on the court? Have you been reading my posts? Because your reaction is not really a response to what I've said. For one, I do not want next year's team to have a defense to have a defense as bad as last year's team, so comparing him to Massoud is pointless in regards to next year. In regards to last year, as I said in previous posts, I also found it befuddling until I heard it from a very good source that he was nursing a knee injury for much of the second half. Massoud was beyond a zero; he was a negative that probably cost us at least 3 conference games alone. Let's not use him as a standard. If Fielder's defense next year is in any way comparable to Massoud's last year, he will sit. There is little he can do on offense to compensate if he's THAT bad, and our other options will not be nearly as bad next year. Here's the good news: I don't think he will be that bad, and I haven't proposed he doesn't play next year. All I've said was that if he doesn't improve from last year, his offensive advantages aren't going to be enough to offset the defensive issues because he's far more easily exploited than he is likely to exploit. But I don't think that's likely, and he'll have better defensive teammates around him. I think Fielder has a lot of offensive potential and could be a real weapon. I've said that in multiple prior posts. He was wildly efficient last year and so even with increased usage or slightly less effective 3 point shooting, he has some room to be good still. I too have seen plays like the above where his slashing seems like a real asset. But he played 36% of minutes and used 16% of possessions -- and his flashes of non-3 pt offense were just that -- flashes. I'm very confident he can be an excellent stretch 4/5 offensively who can hit some shots, empty the lane, drive once in a while, maybe make a post up or two and offensive rebound. He should be working on his screening because he can be a really great screen n roll or pop guy. I think it's a lot to ask him to get to high usage next year, and that's fine ... as long as he's less of a defensive liability as last year. Which again, he should be. Sophomore. Healthier. Better teammates. There's no reason he should be so easily exploited. But while he was an excellent rim protector in his minutes last year, you could really punish him on the perimeter. It wasn't exploited frequently because Cooley didn't let it be -- he pulled him the instant it was happening. Add in some usual freshmen-lost-in-rotation stuff and he was exactly what I said -- erratic. Good rim protection, but committed too many fouls, largely when he had to go out. So that's got to be fixed. That's fine; it should be. But we should acknowledge that it was an issue last year and it's not a fait accompli that it will be fixed. Work needs to be done. It's also another thing to think about in terms of what big man we sign. A center makes a lot of sense, and probably works better for both Sorber and Fielder in terms of NBA aspirations ... but an athletic 4 that would allow them to stay home more might actually make everyone better this year.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Apr 23, 2024 16:58:35 GMT -5
You saw how bad the rest of the team was on defense last season, right? You know how bad their defensive ratings were compared to Fielder? How was it they were allowed free roam on the court for exhaustive minutes and we accepted that? But the thought of a guy who may have similar defensive issues but at least had enough of a pulse on offense that defenders had to guard him is considered too much of a risk to put out on the court? Have you been reading my posts? Because your reaction is not really a response to what I've said. For one, I do not want next year's team to have a defense to have a defense as bad as last year's team, so comparing him to Massoud is pointless in regards to next year. In regards to last year, as I said in previous posts, I also found it befuddling until I heard it from a very good source that he was nursing a knee injury for much of the second half. Massoud was beyond a zero; he was a negative that probably cost us at least 3 conference games alone. Let's not use him as a standard. If Fielder's defense next year is in any way comparable to Massoud's last year, he will sit. There is little he can do on offense to compensate if he's THAT bad, and our other options will not be nearly as bad next year. Here's the good news: I don't think he will be that bad, and I haven't proposed he doesn't play next year. All I've said was that if he doesn't improve from last year, his offensive advantages aren't going to be enough to offset the defensive issues because he's far more easily exploited than he is likely to exploit. But I don't think that's likely, and he'll have better defensive teammates around him. I think Fielder has a lot of offensive potential and could be a real weapon. I've said that in multiple prior posts. He was wildly efficient last year and so even with increased usage or slightly less effective 3 point shooting, he has some room to be good still. I too have seen plays like the above where his slashing seems like a real asset. But he played 36% of minutes and used 16% of possessions -- and his flashes of non-3 pt offense were just that -- flashes. I'm very confident he can be an excellent stretch 4/5 offensively who can hit some shots, empty the lane, drive once in a while, maybe make a post up or two and offensive rebound. He should be working on his screening because he can be a really great screen n roll or pop guy. I think it's a lot to ask him to get to high usage next year, and that's fine ... as long as he's less of a defensive liability as last year. Which again, he should be. Sophomore. Healthier. Better teammates. There's no reason he should be so easily exploited. But while he was an excellent rim protector in his minutes last year, you could really punish him on the perimeter. It wasn't exploited frequently because Cooley didn't let it be -- he pulled him the instant it was happening. Add in some usual freshmen-lost-in-rotation stuff and he was exactly what I said -- erratic. Good rim protection, but committed too many fouls, largely when he had to go out. So that's got to be fixed. That's fine; it should be. But we should acknowledge that it was an issue last year and it's not a fait accompli that it will be fixed. Work needs to be done. It's also another thing to think about in terms of what big man we sign. A center makes a lot of sense, and probably works better for both Sorber and Fielder in terms of NBA aspirations ... but an athletic 4 that would allow them to stay home more might actually make everyone better this year. Solid agreement on everything but NBA fit as center. Both Sorber and Fielder are too small to play NBA center these days. The strengths both have being athletic shooters that can help around the rim fits their strengths now and best benefit for the Hoyas now (if Hoyas get a bulky big to deal with the trend in the BE for that body type and role) but also a fit for their size and capabilities in the NBA. A small ball center would be a fit. Fielder was the 2nd best 3 point shooter (after Montgomery) on the Hoyas at .407.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 23, 2024 17:04:04 GMT -5
On the Fielder v. Massoud point--it also befuddled me that Massoud was playing so much over Fielder toward the end of the season. But, then I heard from multiple sources that he had a knee injury, and Cooley eventually mentioned it in either press availability or press conference. That makes Cooley's decision more sensible.
Also, Fielder tended to foul a lot (6.2 fouls per 40 minutes), which was another reason he saw the bench more than we would have liked. But, I think the knee injury was a bigger deal than anybody realized at the time. (Another good reminder that when things are unfolding in real time we don't always have all of the facts.)
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 23, 2024 17:19:44 GMT -5
[Solid agreement on everything but NBA fit as center. Both Sorber and Fielder are too small to play NBA center these days. The strengths both have being athletic shooters that can help around the rim fits their strengths now and best benefit for the Hoyas now (if Hoyas get a bulky big to deal with the trend in the BE for that body type and role) but also a fit for their size and capabilities in the NBA. A small ball center would be a fit. Fielder was the 2nd best 3 point shooter (after Montgomery) on the Hoyas at .407. It was unclear from my post, but what I was saying is that bringing in a transfer center is better for Sorber and Fielder's NBA aspirations as it will force them to the 4 more often and push them to develop better perimeter defense. So I think we agree there. That said, there's a lot of different center roles in the NBA, and with the right skill set, you can pass at 6'10" / 6'11". I'm simply talking a rotational player. Like I said before, if Trayce-Jackson Davis and Kevon Looney can do it on the Warriors, there's a lot of different game types that can succeed. It's less about size for them in terms of the NBA; it's about being able to defend, period.
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Post by hsaxon on Apr 23, 2024 20:46:58 GMT -5
What was the "Fenlon faux pas?" And why did JT Jr. not pursue Grant Hill and Kenny Anderson? Story even worse than I remembered- that Fenlon knew Hill's background but was so inflexible in administering her reading test. Hill relayed the story in an interview at Esquire Magazine, and the account was neither confirmed nor denied by the only other people in the room that day at McDonough Gymnasium, namely, head coach John Thompson and academic coordinator Mary Fenlon. "Coach Thompson was there, and Miss Mary Fenlon, Georgetown's academic adviser," Hill was quoted as having said. "We're sitting in a room and Miss Fenlon hands me a book and says, 'Read this.' I was a little startled, but I took the book and started reading to myself. Then she says, 'I meant, read out loud.' So I started reading out loud. After a page, she stops me and says, 'Now, tell me what you've read.'" Fenlon's reading test was common to recruits who had come from low income or poor academic environments, a brief examination if they were capable of the level of comprehension Thompson would expect of them. But Grant Hill hadn't grown up in a low income community. Fenlon knew this, of course, but would make no accommodation. www.hoyabasketball.com/features/recruits/g_hill.htmThe story I've heard was that Pops didn't want to kiss the a+* of an 18-year old kid. "Georgetown was his main interest six months ago," said Molloy coach Jack Curran to the Times. "But then the Olympics got in the way of his recruiting and Kenny really wanted to be recruited. At least John had to make some overture to him and he didn't. [Craig Esherick] called several times, but that's not the same." "They called a couple of times but I just didn't think they recruited me the way they should have," Anderson said. www.hoyabasketball.com/features/recruits/k_anderson.htmThank you, SSHoya. Crazy, crazy stuff.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Apr 23, 2024 21:07:13 GMT -5
Malik Mack and Peavy currently both being interviewed on Field of 68
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 23, 2024 21:10:31 GMT -5
On the Fielder v. Massoud point--it also befuddled me that Massoud was playing so much over Fielder toward the end of the season. But, then I heard from multiple sources that he had a knee injury, and Cooley eventually mentioned it in either press availability or press conference. That makes Cooley's decision more sensible. Also, Fielder tended to foul a lot (6.2 fouls per 40 minutes), which was another reason he saw the bench more than we would have liked. But, I think the knee injury was a bigger deal than anybody realized at the time. (Another good reminder that when things are unfolding in real time we don't always have all of the facts.) My understanding is different. Fielder had knee tendenitus issues stemming from high school. He was limited last summer. His play early in the season was impacted by his knees. By the end of the season, Fielder’s knees were feeling better and he looked faster and more mobile and received more minutes.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Apr 23, 2024 21:19:04 GMT -5
On the Fielder v. Massoud point--it also befuddled me that Massoud was playing so much over Fielder toward the end of the season. But, then I heard from multiple sources that he had a knee injury, and Cooley eventually mentioned it in either press availability or press conference. That makes Cooley's decision more sensible. Also, Fielder tended to foul a lot (6.2 fouls per 40 minutes), which was another reason he saw the bench more than we would have liked. But, I think the knee injury was a bigger deal than anybody realized at the time. (Another good reminder that when things are unfolding in real time we don't always have all of the facts.) My understanding is different. Fielder had knee tendenitus issues stemming from high school. He was limited last summer. His play early in the season was impacted by his knees. By the end of the season, Fielder’s knees were feeling better and he looked faster and more mobile and received more minutes. Yeah I thought it was knee troubles pre season and earlier on, he was playing better towards the end with a bit more speed (he did great in the ND game tho where he was the highest scorer). I think he can be an awesome player, and honestly I liked him getting into foul trouble at least more than Ish disappearing for whole games, or Cook letting layups in like it's a fire sale. Actually being aggressive to attempting get blocks or stop an attack, is way better imo. Learn from mistakes and never stop trying. I would have been very disappointed if he transferred.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Apr 23, 2024 21:28:18 GMT -5
On the Fielder v. Massoud point--it also befuddled me that Massoud was playing so much over Fielder toward the end of the season. But, then I heard from multiple sources that he had a knee injury, and Cooley eventually mentioned it in either press availability or press conference. That makes Cooley's decision more sensible. Also, Fielder tended to foul a lot (6.2 fouls per 40 minutes), which was another reason he saw the bench more than we would have liked. But, I think the knee injury was a bigger deal than anybody realized at the time. (Another good reminder that when things are unfolding in real time we don't always have all of the facts.) My understanding is different. Fielder had knee tendenitus issues stemming from high school. He was limited last summer. His play early in the season was impacted by his knees. By the end of the season, Fielder’s knees were feeling better and he looked faster and more mobile and received more minutes. This is correct. S and C staff focused on building strength and rehabbing for months. Paid dividends as season went on.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 23, 2024 22:25:45 GMT -5
My understanding is different. Fielder had knee tendenitus issues stemming from high school. He was limited last summer. His play early in the season was impacted by his knees. By the end of the season, Fielder’s knees were feeling better and he looked faster and more mobile and received more minutes. This is correct. S and C staff focused on building strength and rehabbing for months. Paid dividends as season went on. Good to know. To me the timing is just unclear. For example, in his last five games, Fielder did play more--17 minutes, 20, 24, 7, and 18. But there were some stretches in the season, like late January/early February where Fielder did not play much and Massoud did despite Fielder outplaying Massoud when they did play. So, either Cooley was playing Massoud on purpose over Fielder then, or his knees were the reason? To be clear, there was a stretch from January 27 to February 24, where Fielder's minutes played were very low--5, 18, 3, 13, 10, 8, 13, 8. In contrast, for those same games, Massoud's minutes were 34, 34, 19, 13, 12, 4, 21, 20. I would prefer to think the latter, because if Fielder was fully healthy in that period, and Cooley was playing Massoud anyway, it would make me sincerely question that decision-making. By January 27, it was pretty evident Massoud was a bust, and Fielder was a better player.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 23, 2024 22:57:41 GMT -5
Before I dive into more fun debate with other people's arguments, I want to go down a couple of more statistics.
Turnovers are a key indicator for one's oncourt effectiveness and efficiency. A player can put up commendable numbers that garner all the attention such as points, rebounds, assists, etc, but often enough we don't know the whole complete story until we see what their turnover stats are. I have seen my share of Hoya bigs over the decades who have come up short in the wrong way in this category despite their quality production in other areas. So color me impressed when I went back to sports reference and saw that Fielder committed a grand total of 13 turnovers for the entire year. Thirteen over the course of 467 minutes played. I was floored by those numbers. A freshmen big who turns over the ball that little despite having the ball in his hands in territory stretching from inside the paint to beyond the three-point line is not that common. Tt suggests he can take care of the ball and not waste possessions by travelling, making bad passes or succumbing to unforced errors. That means when he is taking dribble drives to the basket, which was probably his second most frequent type of attack when he was looking to score, he did so without dribbling the ball off his feet.
Look how his turnovers compared to other teammates, in particular the other "bigs". I hate to beat a dead horse but Ish Massoud accumulated twice as many turnovers in 589 minutes. Supreme Cook had 47 in 866 minutes.
It should come as no surprise that guards and wings accumulated more turnovers because the ball is in their hands more. So lets look at assists and assists-to-turnovers ratios. Drew had 23 assists to 13 turnovers. That is almost a 2 to 1 ratio for a freshman big which is remarkable. Ish had 11 less assists (12) than Fielder despite playing over 120 plus more minutes. Cook had a mere 18 assists in 866 minutes. So from an assist to turnover standpoint Cook was 18 to 47; Ish was 12 to 26. Both of them are in the negative. Fielder was 23 to 13.
Lets not stop there. Lets look at Styles. In 1073 minutes: 26 assists and 49 turnovers. Epps in 1010 minutes put up 123 assists and 98 turnovers. In 686 minutes Rowan accumulated 82 assists and 62 turnovers. For Jay Heath who played 886 minutes he had a total of 60 assists and 41 turnovers. In 649 minutes Wayne Bristol managed 25 assists and 19 turnovers. It should come as no surprise that guards and wings would amass more assists than turnovers. What is surprising is that Fielder's ratio is better than all of our guards and wings of that season.
Even more shocking is another category. Fielder was the second leading Hoya in blocks despite playing the least minutes of the 8 guys who made up the primary rotation. Styles led everyone with 21; Fielder fell one short with 20. Cook in 400 more minutes had a mere 16 blocks. Massoud ended up with 11.
One more category. Steals. Fielder had the least in 10 but that was still highly impressive considering the position he played and the limited minutes he got. Epps led the way with 34, followed by Wayne and Rowan with 28 apiece, followed by Cook with 25, followed by Heath with 21, followed by Styles with 18 (even though he led the team with 1073 minutes) and finally Massoud with 14. If you consider the minutes each played, Drew's total of ten is proportionally better than everyone other than Epps and possibly Rowan and Wayne.
The numbers were not all good for Fielder. He picked up a disproportionate amount of personal fouls, which largely explains some of the questions regarding his minutes. His rebounding numbers could have been stronger too. Although, even on this front, his final total of 98 minutes was still twenty higher than Massoud's. (I'm sorry, Ish; its not personal).
So to sum it up just by the numbers how did Fielder stack up compared to the other seven dudes who logged the big minutes:
-second to Cook in 2-point FG% and overall FG% -a close second to Cook in eFG% -the best three-point percentage on the team -the best ORtg on the team -the best DRtg on the team -the best assist to turnover ratio -second on the team in blocks -sneaky good at steals.
I understand Fielder's faults and I have not been trying to cover them up. But he was playing on a squad full of players with faults. My argument remains, respectively, that this kid should have gotten more time. And these numbers contradict the various negative narratives from many of Hoya fandom, a couple that have gone as far as implying that he isn't capable of being a starter for this team anytime soon (no, SF, this is not directed at you). If the analytics of Fielder were negative and far worse, his same detractors would use them as the final say. But the numbers counter the viewpoint that they put forth.
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Post by practice on Apr 24, 2024 6:50:09 GMT -5
I look at Fielder and see a potential Georgetown Laetner.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 24, 2024 7:17:01 GMT -5
You saw how bad the rest of the team was on defense last season, right? You know how bad their defensive ratings were compared to Fielder? How was it they were allowed free roam on the court for exhaustive minutes and we accepted that? But the thought of a guy who may have similar defensive issues but at least had enough of a pulse on offense that defenders had to guard him is considered too much of a risk to put out on the court? Have you been reading my posts? Because your reaction is not really a response to what I've said. SF, I respect your opinion but please stop responding to me like I am a child with some sort of reading comprehension problem. Whenever I post something that counters your take, your go-to-move is to inform me, EVERYTIME, that I completely misread, misunderstood, miscomprehended your analysis. I didn't waste time getting a college education just to be that clueless, friend. I read what you have written, I grasp what you have laid down. I simply don't 100% agree with your assessment. Sometime I go at it directly, sometimes I go a more round-about way that is indirect. It appears we are simply going in circles at this point. I hear you in regards to the non-injury rationale of why Fielder was not on the court more even if I don't see eye-to-eye with you. Forget about next season if/when Fielder improves; there was no excuse, in my humble opinion, of having Massoud eat up all those minutes when Fielder could have been a better option. The stats I come across tells me that Fielder makes winning contributions to a (losing) team. Granted it may have been intangibles that we can't statistically measure that were more of an issue. To be honest there were even times in the latter half of the year in which Cooley seemed too slow to pull Cook for Fielder when Cook was having ineffective games. The numbers show that Cook wasn't even a necessarily better defender in the paint (and before you respond that you were not suggesting this either let me say I realize that). Of course there were other things Cook brought to the table that Fielder did not. I trust Cooley to know his squad better than I do which means you may be more correct in your assessment of why Drew sat a lot. However from where I sit there was something that felt off about this move based upon what I saw and on the statistical comparisons I came across after the season was over. I don't know to explain it any way other than that. Good debate though. I'll end my side of it here.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 24, 2024 8:14:18 GMT -5
Before I dive into more fun debate with other people's arguments, I want to go down a couple of more statistics. Turnovers are a key indicator for one's oncourt effectiveness and efficiency. A player can put up commendable numbers that garner all the attention such as points, rebounds, assists, etc, but often enough we don't know the whole complete story until we see what their turnover stats are. I have seen my share of Hoya bigs over the decades who have come up short in the wrong way in this category despite their quality production in other areas. So color me impressed when I went back to sports reference and saw that Fielder committed a grand total of 13 turnovers for the entire year. Thirteen over the course of 467 minutes played. I was floored by those numbers. A freshmen big who turns over the ball that little despite having the ball in his hands in territory stretching from inside the paint to beyond the three-point line is not that common. Tt suggests he can take care of the ball and not waste possessions by travelling, making bad passes or succumbing to unforced errors. That means when he is taking dribble drives to the basket, which was probably his second most frequent type of attack when he was looking to score, he did so without dribbling the ball off his feet. Look how his turnovers compared to other teammates, in particular the other "bigs". I hate to beat a dead horse but Ish Massoud accumulated twice as many turnovers in 589 minutes. Supreme Cook had 47 in 866 minutes. It should come as no surprise that guards and wings accumulated more turnovers because the ball is in their hands more. So lets look at assists and assists-to-turnovers ratios. Drew had 23 assists to 13 turnovers. That is almost a 2 to 1 ratio for a freshman big which is remarkable. Ish had 11 less assists (12) than Fielder despite playing over 120 plus more minutes. Cook had a mere 18 assists in 866 minutes. So from an assist to turnover standpoint Cook was 18 to 47; Ish was 12 to 26. Both of them are in the negative. Fielder was 23 to 13. Lets not stop there. Lets look at Styles. In 1073 minutes: 26 assists and 49 turnovers. Epps in 1010 minutes put up 123 assists and 98 turnovers. In 686 minutes Rowan accumulated 82 assists and 62 turnovers. For Jay Heath who played 886 minutes he had a total of 60 assists and 41 turnovers. In 649 minutes Wayne Bristol managed 25 assists and 19 turnovers. It should come as no surprise that guards and wings would amass more assists than turnovers. What is surprising is that Fielder's ratio is better than all of our guards and wings of that season. Even more shocking is another category. Fielder was the second leading Hoya in blocks despite playing the least minutes of the 8 guys who made up the primary rotation. Styles led everyone with 21; Fielder fell one short with 20. Cook in 400 more minutes had a mere 16 blocks. Massoud ended up with 11. One more category. Steals. Fielder had the least in 10 but that was still highly impressive considering the position he played and the limited minutes he got. Epps led the way with 34, followed by Wayne and Rowan with 28 apiece, followed by Cook with 25, followed by Heath with 21, followed by Styles with 18 (even though he led the team with 1073 minutes) and finally Massoud with 14. If you consider the minutes each played, Drew's total of ten is proportionally better than everyone other than Epps and possibly Rowan and Wayne. The numbers were not all good for Fielder. He picked up a disproportionate amount of personal fouls, which largely explains some of the questions regarding his minutes. His rebounding numbers could have been stronger too. Although, even on this front, his final total of 98 minutes was still twenty higher than Massoud's. (I'm sorry, Ish; its not personal). So to sum it up just by the numbers how did Fielder stack up compared to the other seven dudes who logged the big minutes: -second to Cook in 2-point FG% and overall FG% -a close second to Cook in eFG% -the best three-point percentage on the team -the best ORtg on the team -the best DRtg on the team -the best assist to turnover ratio -second on the team in blocks -sneaky good at steals. I understand Fielder's faults and I have not been trying to cover them up. But he was playing on a squad full of players with faults. My argument remains, respectively, that this kid should have gotten more time. And these numbers contradict the various negative narratives from many of Hoya fandom, a couple that have gone as far as implying that he isn't capable of being a starter for this team anytime soon (no, SF, this is not directed at you). If the analytics of Fielder were negative and far worse, his same detractors would use them as the final say. But the numbers counter the viewpoint that they put forth. I was told there would be no math. 😡
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