thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 3, 2024 11:30:27 GMT -5
You're right that I'm not an xs and os kinf of guy. I'm the kind of guy who watches an opponent score 60 points against us in a half (almost all of them around the rim) and wonders why the 7 footer we recruited 3 years ago and who is currently on scholarship never made an appearance. I guess he couldn't have done as good a job protecting the rim as Massoud and Fielder. Hey I'm sorry for beating this dead horse but good grief Cooley had to know at the start of this season that there would be games like this. The fact that Ryan Motumbo has floated through three years at GU hardly ever playing while that same GU team has been one of the worst defensive teams in the our program's (and NCAA) history defies explanation. Oh yeah and regarding Brumbaugh. The kid is a freshman. Again, if this was a team loaded with good point guards I can understand bringing him along slowly. But it was obvious after our weak OOC performances that that we needed a legit pg. Sure Ryan is a little slow defensively but the kid can compete and is a floor leader. And we're seeing now (albeit 3 months too late) that he can shoot 3's and take it to the hoop. When the dust settles on this season I believe Cooley's mishandling of Rowan will be his biggest mistake. I keep hearing folks say he mishandled Rowan. Couldn't it be that Rowan simply earned more time as the season progressed? I recall several games early in BE play where Rowans minutes were unplayable. Turnovers. Lack of confidence on O. Confusion on D. If anything I'd say his growth these last 3 weeks have been a positive development of a player not a sign of some mishaps by the staff previously.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 3, 2024 11:31:14 GMT -5
It's actually very easy to explain. Hes not a high major D1 level player. And there's nothing wrong with that. Congrats on his degree. But Massoud is? He played bench minutes consistently on an elite 8 team. So I'd say yes. Lol. He was asked to do more this season in an increased role and it was an epic failure.
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Mar 3, 2024 11:38:51 GMT -5
Oh yeah and regarding Brumbaugh. The kid is a freshman. Again, if this was a team loaded with good point guards I can understand bringing him along slowly. But it was obvious after our weak OOC performances that that we needed a legit pg. Sure Ryan is a little slow defensively but the kid can compete and is a floor leader. And we're seeing now (albeit 3 months too late) that he can shoot 3's and take it to the hoop. When the dust settles on this season I believe Cooley's mishandling of Rowan will be his biggest mistake. I keep hearing folks say he mishandled Rowan. Couldn't it be that Rowan simply earned more time as the season progressed? I recall several games early in BE play where Rowans minutes were unplayable. Turnovers. Lack of confidence on O. Confusion on D. If anything I'd say his growth these last 3 weeks have been a positive development of a player not a sign of some mishaps by the staff previously. Rowan scored 19 on 32 minutes against Creighton followed by 10 in 33 minutes against Depaul. In those games he also had 8 assists to 4 turnovers. That was followed by 12, 7, 3 and 9 minutes in his next 4 games. How do you explain that?
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Mar 3, 2024 11:42:21 GMT -5
The age old lament of the loser. No amount of refereeing excuses this type of collapse. Exactly. Find a way to win. So you think the game was well officiated?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 3, 2024 11:48:49 GMT -5
Exactly. Find a way to win. So you think the game was well officiated? Good officiating, poor officiating, good lighting, bad lighting, big crowd, small crowd, we lose them all. The only constant is our substandard play.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 3, 2024 11:48:51 GMT -5
I keep hearing folks say he mishandled Rowan. Couldn't it be that Rowan simply earned more time as the season progressed? I recall several games early in BE play where Rowans minutes were unplayable. Turnovers. Lack of confidence on O. Confusion on D. If anything I'd say his growth these last 3 weeks have been a positive development of a player not a sign of some mishaps by the staff previously. Rowan scored 19 on 32 minutes against Creighton followed by 10 in 33 minutes against Depaul. In those games he also had 8 assists to 4 turnovers. That was followed by 12, 7, 3 and 9 minutes in his next 4 games. How do you explain that? Pretty easily. Go watch the replays. He started the next two games after DePaul, which were Seton Hall and Uconn. And it became obvious incredibly quickly that he had no business being on the court the way he was playing in those games. He then went back to the bench after starting in those 2 - until he had had back to break breakout games against Creighton and Villanova. And then had been inserted back in starting lineup since. Seems pretty normal for handling a 1st year player. Had some ok performances. Hit a wall and struggled. Earned back PT, and has developed as season progressed. You have a ton to pick apart on this team and year for the staff - and you relish every second - this just doesn't seem like one to belabor imo.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Mar 3, 2024 11:54:34 GMT -5
So you think the game was well officiated? Good officiating, poor officiating, good lighting, bad lighting, big crowd, small crowd, we lose them all. The only constant is our substandard play. That doesn’t answer the question - did the officials call the game evenly and fairly that gave both teams the same treatment? Was it called well ?
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Mar 3, 2024 12:06:45 GMT -5
Rowan scored 19 on 32 minutes against Creighton followed by 10 in 33 minutes against Depaul. In those games he also had 8 assists to 4 turnovers. That was followed by 12, 7, 3 and 9 minutes in his next 4 games. How do you explain that? Pretty easily. Go watch the replays. He started the next two games after DePaul, which were Seton Hall and Uconn. And it became obvious incredibly quickly that he had no business being on the court the way he was playing in those games. He then went back to the bench after starting in those 2 - until he had had back to break breakout games against Creighton and Villanova. And then had been inserted back in starting lineup since. Seems pretty normal for handling a 1st year player. Had some ok performances. Hit a wall and struggled. Earned back PT, and has developed as season progressed. You have a ton to pick apart on this team and year for the staff - and you relish every second - this just doesn't seem like one to belabor imo. Why doesn’t Epps get treated the same way? He’s been way more detrimental than Epps in more games. Epps is allowed to do whatever he wants while everyone else seems to be held to a different standard. That’s how you mishandle a team.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 3, 2024 12:09:58 GMT -5
Armchair observations from someone with very little appreciation for xs and os: Ryan - seems like a nice kid but his HS ranking was probably inflated but if he went somewhere else the dozens of people on the Board would have exploded. Rowan - I agree he knows how to be a true PG. He is very savvy and his stroke from 3 is better than I expected but he is a half a step slow on D. You're right that I'm not an xs and os kinf of guy. I'm the kind of guy who watches an opponent score 60 points against us in a half (almost all of them around the rim) and wonders why the 7 footer we recruited 3 years ago and who is currently on scholarship never made an appearance. I guess he couldn't have done as good a job protecting the rim as Massoud and Fielder. Hey I'm sorry for beating this dead horse but good grief Cooley had to know at the start of this season that there would be games like this. The fact that Ryan Motumbo has floated through three years at GU hardly ever playing while that same GU team has been one of the worst defensive teams in the our program's (and NCAA) history defies explanation. It doesn't defy explanation. Two different coaches who watched him every day and who desperately wanted to win thought his weaknesses outweighed his strengths on the court.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 3, 2024 12:11:07 GMT -5
Rowan scored 19 on 32 minutes against Creighton followed by 10 in 33 minutes against Depaul. In those games he also had 8 assists to 4 turnovers. That was followed by 12, 7, 3 and 9 minutes in his next 4 games. How do you explain that? Pretty easily. Go watch the replays. He started the next two games after DePaul, which were Seton Hall and Uconn. And it became obvious incredibly quickly that he had no business being on the court the way he was playing in those games. He then went back to the bench after starting in those 2 - until he had had back to break breakout games against Creighton and Villanova. And then had been inserted back in starting lineup since. Seems pretty normal for handling a 1st year player. Had some ok performances. Hit a wall and struggled. Earned back PT, and has developed as season progressed. You have a ton to pick apart on this team and year for the staff - and you relish every second - this just doesn't seem like one to belabor imo. If I am not mistaken, RB also missed a week of practice and games with the flu in that timeframe.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 3, 2024 12:30:18 GMT -5
Pretty easily. Go watch the replays. He started the next two games after DePaul, which were Seton Hall and Uconn. And it became obvious incredibly quickly that he had no business being on the court the way he was playing in those games. He then went back to the bench after starting in those 2 - until he had had back to break breakout games against Creighton and Villanova. And then had been inserted back in starting lineup since. Seems pretty normal for handling a 1st year player. Had some ok performances. Hit a wall and struggled. Earned back PT, and has developed as season progressed. You have a ton to pick apart on this team and year for the staff - and you relish every second - this just doesn't seem like one to belabor imo. Why doesn’t Epps get treated the same way? He’s been way more detrimental than Epps in more games. Epps is allowed to do whatever he wants while everyone else seems to be held to a different standard. That’s how you mishandle a team. You've now moved the goal posts or in reality, changed the entire premise of the initial Q. I actually think there's a much better argument against the staff for their usage of Epps - it was clear since Day 1 that they gave Epps the longest leash, the keys to the bus, and the weight of being the best player. Now I tend to believe that they're an experienced staff and that their evaluation was likely correct - but considering the results both of team record and Epps poor shooting/shot selection/pick 6 turnovers on many nights, it was a failure any way you cut it. I'd argue it was out of necessity - and just the best bad option. But again, to me that's a much more defensible criticism then Rowans handling.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 3, 2024 12:34:17 GMT -5
Good officiating, poor officiating, good lighting, bad lighting, big crowd, small crowd, we lose them all. The only constant is our substandard play. That doesn’t answer the question - did the officials call the game evenly and fairly that gave both teams the same treatment? Was it called well ? Sorry. They called a bad game. In the end, with our current team it does not matter.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 3, 2024 12:38:28 GMT -5
Why doesn’t Epps get treated the same way? He’s been way more detrimental than Epps in more games. Epps is allowed to do whatever he wants while everyone else seems to be held to a different standard. That’s how you mishandle a team. You've now moved the goal posts or in reality, changed the entire premise of the initial Q. I actually think there's a much better argument against the staff for their usage of Epps - it was clear since Day 1 that they gave Epps the longest leash, the keys to the bus, and the weight of being the best player. Now I tend to believe that they're an experienced staff and that their evaluation was likely correct - but considering the results both of team record and Epps poor shooting/shot selection/pick 6 turnovers on many nights, it was a failure any way you cut it. I'd argue it was out of necessity - and just the best bad option. But again, to me that's a much more defensible criticism then Rowans handling. The staff may not be very good talent evaluators. Their usage/payment of Epps/Massoud/Heath compared to others is evidence of that. I do give them credit for finding and developing Cook from Fairfield.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 3, 2024 12:43:39 GMT -5
Epps does nothing but dominate the ball. Sorry, but Epps does a ton more than just "dominate the ball".
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 3, 2024 13:19:48 GMT -5
Have to question the defensive scheme being played
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kettlehill
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Post by kettlehill on Mar 3, 2024 14:13:56 GMT -5
For anyone who hasn't read the Wapo coverage of the game, this from Cooley re the D was a hoot: “Absolutely horrific, horrific attention to detail in this game,” Cooley said. “Ninety-eight points in regulation? I should have been out there with you defending because that’s what we looked like: five old men out there defending — old, old-ass men.”
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Mar 3, 2024 14:49:58 GMT -5
Why doesn’t Epps get treated the same way? He’s been way more detrimental than Epps in more games. Epps is allowed to do whatever he wants while everyone else seems to be held to a different standard. That’s how you mishandle a team. You've now moved the goal posts or in reality, changed the entire premise of the initial Q. I actually think there's a much better argument against the staff for their usage of Epps - it was clear since Day 1 that they gave Epps the longest leash, the keys to the bus, and the weight of being the best player. Now I tend to believe that they're an experienced staff and that their evaluation was likely correct - but considering the results both of team record and Epps poor shooting/shot selection/pick 6 turnovers on many nights, it was a failure any way you cut it. I'd argue it was out of necessity - and just the best bad option. But again, to me that's a much more defensible criticism then Rowans handling. If you’re initial comment was into my post earlier in this thread about mishandling of Rowan and Epps he absolutely did. One resulted in the other. At the time Rowan was sat he should’ve been getting the Epps treatment and vice versa. It’s clear what Epps is and it’s not a winning player. He can have spurts and he can take advantage of weaker players. He just doesn’t get what he should be to be a winning player and with the leash he was given why should he. The 1st half last night was good Epps minus some really bad turnovers. He probably didn’t see it that way which is why he came out and had a half like has killed us many times this year. Rowan on the other hand has shown potential and winning tendencies. His handle is the main thing holding him back. Instead of letting him grow at a point when the season was over he got a drastically lowered role for Epps and Heath. Cooley put together a bad roster but he compounded his mistake with his game management over and over. I don’t think thats any secret. Last night may have been his worst job yet. This team was going nowhere this year but if Cooley was an up and coming mid major coach we would be calling for his head the way this season has played out.
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Mar 3, 2024 14:52:06 GMT -5
For anyone who hasn't read the Wapo coverage of the game, this from Cooley re the D was a hoot: “Absolutely horrific, horrific attention to detail in this game,” Cooley said. “Ninety-eight points in regulation? I should have been out there with you defending because that’s what we looked like: five old men out there defending — old, old-ass men.” We can mark doesn’t throw players under the bus away after last nights presser. When asked what the fix is he said recruiting. He’s not wrong though.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 3, 2024 15:06:00 GMT -5
For anyone who hasn't read the Wapo coverage of the game, this from Cooley re the D was a hoot: “Absolutely horrific, horrific attention to detail in this game,” Cooley said. “Ninety-eight points in regulation? I should have been out there with you defending because that’s what we looked like: five old men out there defending — old, old-ass men.” We can mark doesn’t throw players under the bus away after last nights presser. When asked what the fix is he said recruiting. He’s not wrong though. It's always uncomfortable when you have to explain humor to people but this is self-effacing and he's making himself the butt of the joke.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 3, 2024 15:22:19 GMT -5
We can mark doesn’t throw players under the bus away after last nights presser. When asked what the fix is he said recruiting. He’s not wrong though. It's always uncomfortable when you have to explain humor to people but this is self-effacing and he's making himself the butt of the joke. Oh my goodness you’re right! This is an actually hilarious bit of comedy. Legendary. Hard to stop laughing once you’ve had someone like TC “explain humor.” What a service you’ve done. And it’s just really nice how you give the coach the benefit of every doubt.
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