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Post by happyhoya1979 on Dec 22, 2023 15:42:51 GMT -5
It is amazing how Claudine Gay's plagiarism and congressional testimony problems have thrown Harvard into turmoil. In the last four weeks she has taken what was built up over 400 years
of the Roosevelts, the two Adams, Robert Oppenheimer, T.S. Eliot, John Kennedy, Henry Kissinger, Ralph Bunche, Helen Keller, Felix Frankfurter, etc., etc., etc., and put the entire enterprise into reputational peril.
I think of the New York Yankees, who won nine world series and fourteen pennants over sixteen years from 1949 to 1964 with several future Hall of Famers and who then finished in last place in the American League in 1966.
It can all go so quickly.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 22, 2023 15:48:57 GMT -5
It is amazing how Claudine Gay's plagiarism and congressional testimony problems have thrown Harvard into turmoil. In the last four weeks she has taken what was built up over 400 years of the Roosevelts, the two Adams, Robert Oppenheimer, T.S. Eliot, John Kennedy, Henry Kissinger, Ralph Bunche, Helen Keller, Felix Frankfurter, etc., etc., etc., and put the entire enterprise into reputational peril. Here's the problem: if Summers, Faust, or Bacow were guilty of plagarism, the mortal sin of academia, they would have resigned before they were shown the door. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 22, 2023 16:14:55 GMT -5
It is amazing how Claudine Gay's plagiarism and congressional testimony problems have thrown Harvard into turmoil. In the last four weeks she has taken what was built up over 400 years of the Roosevelts, the two Adams, Robert Oppenheimer, T.S. Eliot, John Kennedy, Henry Kissinger, Ralph Bunche, Helen Keller, Felix Frankfurter, etc., etc., etc., and put the entire enterprise into reputational peril. Here's the problem: if Summers, Faust, or Bacow were guilty of plagarism, the mortal sin of academia, they would have resigned before they were shown the door. This really asks the hard question of who vetted her in the hiring process. If the plagiarism is actual, she is a disgrace. That she lacks the fiber to resign makes it worse. If it was not picked up on throughout her career someone was asleep at the switch. If it was picked up on and buried it is even worse. |
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 22, 2023 19:53:23 GMT -5
Can't disagree with anything here. This is a bad, bad look.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 2, 2024 13:18:32 GMT -5
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 2, 2024 13:25:14 GMT -5
Sad chapter but the right outcome.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 2, 2024 13:32:41 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 2, 2024 15:33:35 GMT -5
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 2, 2024 16:08:30 GMT -5
So shouldn’t the search committee be next? She is a disgrace; they hired her either via incompetence or worse… |
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jan 2, 2024 18:54:43 GMT -5
So shouldn’t the search committee be next? She is a disgrace; they hired her either via incompetence or worse… From what I have read from various insider reports, to which I have access as a result of having a degree from the law school, there's a lot going on behind the scenes. We shall see. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 3, 2024 4:46:21 GMT -5
So nice to see her play “victim” one say out the door…
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hoyajinx
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Post by hoyajinx on Jan 3, 2024 6:16:49 GMT -5
So nice to see her play “victim” one say out the door… There is no doubt she should be gone, and her character should be called into question. But I do find it interesting that the most you’ve participated on this board in months is in your seeming anger toward a black woman in a position of power. Maybe she isn’t totally off base? |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 3, 2024 7:11:58 GMT -5
So nice to see her play “victim” one say out the door… There is no doubt she should be gone, and her character should be called into question. But I do find it interesting that the most you’ve participated on this board in months is in your seeming anger toward a black woman in a position of power. Maybe she isn’t totally off base? Doubling down are we? My anger, more disgust but why quibble, is with those who either missed, or ignored, her abject unfitness for the role. The most interesting part of any question is the why. We all know now she was unfit for the job. Kids are kicked out of schools all the time for much less. How did Harvard, the paragon of American academia miss so badly? Was there some compelling need to place this person at this time? That is the only fascinating piece of this for me. The rest is bad theater. As for this page of this board, I am simply tired of the echo chamber. |
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hoyajinx
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Post by hoyajinx on Jan 3, 2024 7:56:47 GMT -5
There is no doubt she should be gone, and her character should be called into question. But I do find it interesting that the most you’ve participated on this board in months is in your seeming anger toward a black woman in a position of power. Maybe she isn’t totally off base? Doubling down are we? My anger, more disgust but why quibble, is with those who either missed, or ignored, her abject unfitness for the role. The most interesting part of any question is the why. We all know now she was unfit for the job. Kids are kicked out of schools all the time for much less. How did Harvard, the paragon of American academia miss so badly? Was there some compelling need to place this person at this time? That is the only fascinating piece of this for me. The rest is bad theater. As for this page of this board, I am simply tired of the echo chamber. How am I doubling down exactly? I said she should go. As far as this being an echo chamber, thank you for the hearty laugh at the incredible irony. This entire story has been drummed up and beaten to death by right wing media echo chambers, clearly by which you have been heavily influenced. Don’t take my word for it, take Chris Rufo’s word: www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/01/02/claudine-gay-resignation-conservatives-00133568If you offered anything other than easily refuted opinions or false equivalencies, you could destroy this “echo chamber” easily. The fact that you, and the vast majority of Republicans, seem to care far more about the unfitness of the president of an institution with which you have no connection than the unfitness of the fraudulent, fascist, criminal Republican candidate for president is the truly unbelievable aspect of this story. Maybe this place is such an “echo chamber” because of the appalling dishonesty and moral and intellectual bankruptcy of your party. Thank you for highlighting this story and putting such a fine point on your party’s complete deficiencies. The next shiny culture war pinwheel will be along shortly to drum up your disgust and anger. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 3, 2024 7:59:52 GMT -5
Doubling down are we? My anger, more disgust but why quibble, is with those who either missed, or ignored, her abject unfitness for the role. The most interesting part of any question is the why. We all know now she was unfit for the job. Kids are kicked out of schools all the time for much less. How did Harvard, the paragon of American academia miss so badly? Was there some compelling need to place this person at this time? That is the only fascinating piece of this for me. The rest is bad theater. As for this page of this board, I am simply tired of the echo chamber. How am I doubling down exactly? I said she should go. As far as this being an echo chamber, thank you for the hearty laugh at the incredible irony. This entire story has been drummed up and beaten to death by right wing media echo chambers, clearly by which you have been heavily influenced. Don’t take my word for it, take the Chris Rufo’s word: www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/01/02/claudine-gay-resignation-conservatives-00133568If you offered anything other than easily refuted opinions or false equivalencies, you could destroy this “echo chamber” easily. The fact that you, and the vast majority of Republicans, seem to care far more about the unfitness of the president of an institution with which you have no connection than the unfitness of the fraudulent, fascist, criminal Republican candidate for president is the truly unbelievable aspect of this story. Maybe this place is such an “echo chamber” because of the appalling dishonesty and moral and intellectual bankruptcy of your party. Thank you for highlighting this story and putting such a fine point on your party’s complete deficiencies. The next shiny culture war pinwheel will be along shortly to drum up your disgust and anger. Have you no interest in how she got hired? Really? Does that ask questions you don’t want answered? |
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hoyajinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyajinx on Jan 3, 2024 8:14:22 GMT -5
How am I doubling down exactly? I said she should go. As far as this being an echo chamber, thank you for the hearty laugh at the incredible irony. This entire story has been drummed up and beaten to death by right wing media echo chambers, clearly by which you have been heavily influenced. Don’t take my word for it, take the Chris Rufo’s word: www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/01/02/claudine-gay-resignation-conservatives-00133568If you offered anything other than easily refuted opinions or false equivalencies, you could destroy this “echo chamber” easily. The fact that you, and the vast majority of Republicans, seem to care far more about the unfitness of the president of an institution with which you have no connection than the unfitness of the fraudulent, fascist, criminal Republican candidate for president is the truly unbelievable aspect of this story. Maybe this place is such an “echo chamber” because of the appalling dishonesty and moral and intellectual bankruptcy of your party. Thank you for highlighting this story and putting such a fine point on your party’s complete deficiencies. The next shiny culture war pinwheel will be along shortly to drum up your disgust and anger. Have you no interest in how she got hired? Really? Does that ask questions you don’t want answered? If I had donated money to Harvard or had any other vested interest in it, I probably would. It seems that this is an utter failure on the powers that be at the institution. I have no connection to Harvard, so no, I don’t really care. I know your side wants to make this a big discussion about DEI initiatives so that you can use this token example as the absolute rule that DEI elevates undeserving people to power. That’s the obvious angle here. I do find it odd that there wasn’t this much outrage when the white, male president of Stanford resigned last year. Why weren’t there questions being asked about how he got hired? Hmm, that’s hard to figure… |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 3, 2024 10:48:55 GMT -5
As the usual media suspects weigh in on this, one important point: Harvard University is not a community of scholars but a $5.9 billion corporation with 19,000 employees, 400,000 alumni stakeholders, and an endowment comparable to the GDP of the kingdom of Jordan. It requires a skilled executive with significant and broad-based administrative and fiduciary experience, not a faculty dean.
Major universities need a CEO, a word that academics recoil at. But CEOs have one thing that many faculty ultimately lack: the ability to lead and not merely govern.
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Jan 3, 2024 11:20:00 GMT -5
Here's the "usual media suspects"--- apnews.com/article/harvard-president-plagiarism-claudine-gay-3b048da1f2ee17b5edec3680b5828e8fImportant to note that: 1) Rufo is a GU alum and DeSantis' hatchet man for Higher Ed evisceration/"ideological purification" in FL. 2) DFW makes a fair point about CEO requirements for major university presidents (although I would argue in 2024 that the only true requirement is "fundraiser extraordinaire"). I'll add the "usual" caveat that at most major universities, the highest compensated employee is one of three people: 1) FB or Men's BB coach; 2) Chief Investment Officer (which I believe to be the case at most, if not all, Ivies) or 3) Chief Medical Officer/CEO of associated Medical Center. This SF resident (and grad alum of one of the schools) believes the real crimes committed by these defenestrated Presidents were that they had the effrontery to believe they ran the institutions in lieu of key donors at both places... |
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jan 3, 2024 21:10:58 GMT -5
Have you no interest in how she got hired? Really? Does that ask questions you don’t want answered? If I had donated money to Harvard or had any other vested interest in it, I probably would. It seems that this is an utter failure on the powers that be at the institution. I have no connection to Harvard, so no, I don’t really care. I know your side wants to make this a big discussion about DEI initiatives so that you can use this token example as the absolute rule that DEI elevates undeserving people to power. That’s the obvious angle here. I do find it odd that there wasn’t this much outrage when the white, male president of Stanford resigned last year. Why weren’t there questions being asked about how he got hired? Hmm, that’s hard to figure… I'll play here, because I clearly don't come from Elvado's world on the right, and I am an alumnus. When Gay's hiring was first announced, I thought good for her. I wasn't aware of her background, and had no reason to think that she wasn't qualified or hadn't been properly vetted. In retrospect, it becomes clear that she was a very poor choice, and that's on the Harvard Board of Overseers, not her. One certainly has to wonder if this wasn't a DEI-influenced decision. Bill Ackman certainly seems to think it was. That doesn't mean DEI is a bad thing per se, but you can't escape that it's a really, really bad example of a really, really bad result. |
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hoyajinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyajinx on Jan 4, 2024 20:10:36 GMT -5
If I had donated money to Harvard or had any other vested interest in it, I probably would. It seems that this is an utter failure on the powers that be at the institution. I have no connection to Harvard, so no, I don’t really care. I know your side wants to make this a big discussion about DEI initiatives so that you can use this token example as the absolute rule that DEI elevates undeserving people to power. That’s the obvious angle here. I do find it odd that there wasn’t this much outrage when the white, male president of Stanford resigned last year. Why weren’t there questions being asked about how he got hired? Hmm, that’s hard to figure… I'll play here, because I clearly don't come from Elvado's world on the right, and I am an alumnus. When Gay's hiring was first announced, I thought good for her. I wasn't aware of her background, and had no reason to think that she wasn't qualified or hadn't been properly vetted. In retrospect, it becomes clear that she was a very poor choice, and that's on the Harvard Board of Overseers, not her. One certainly has to wonder if this wasn't a DEI-influenced decision. Bill Ackman certainly seems to think it was. That doesn't mean DEI is a bad thing per se, but you can't escape that it's a really, really bad example of a really, really bad result. I read Ackman’s diatribe after Gay was fired blaming DEI for antisemitism on campus. I found it very unpersuasive; he seems to have shifted quickly rightward recently. It was all speculative and read like a rich, white guy complaining about how he’s really the oppressed one. Interestingly enough, it seems Ackman had more trouble vetting his own wife than Harvard did vetting Gay. I wonder if he’s going to have the same vitriol towards her? www.businessinsider.com/neri-oxman-admits-plagiarism-business-insider-article-apology-2024-1?amp |
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