hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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Post by hoyazeke on Dec 19, 2023 20:28:00 GMT -5
You can see the difference in the weight room...we are going to enjoy these games next year.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,400
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 19, 2023 20:28:48 GMT -5
If I were Cooley I'd be po'ed that Butler got that rebound on the missed FT.
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adm1hoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 275
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Post by adm1hoya on Dec 19, 2023 20:29:19 GMT -5
Gotta kick it to the open shooter there, Rowan.
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Post by HometownHoya on Dec 19, 2023 20:29:25 GMT -5
If I were Cooley I'd be po'ed that Butler got that rebound on the miss FT. It’s happened way too many times this year.
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,898
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Post by saxagael on Dec 19, 2023 20:29:44 GMT -5
Epps is having a tough time staying with his man on defense today. The sickness lag has been showing much of the game.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Dec 19, 2023 20:30:07 GMT -5
Team only down 12pts Not too bad
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Post by JohnnyJones on Dec 19, 2023 20:30:21 GMT -5
We are so much more skilled than Butler but they are the tougher, more physical team... Is this a joke?
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astrohoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 303
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Post by astrohoya on Dec 19, 2023 20:30:52 GMT -5
Same issues in this game that have plagued us all year. Mainly complete futility on the interior Defensively (including rebounding) and turnovers. If we don’t outshoot that, there are going to be some long nights this year.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,400
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 19, 2023 20:30:57 GMT -5
If I were Cooley I'd be po'ed that Butler got that rebound on the miss FT. It’s happened way too many times this year. Yeah, and to me, that's just attention to a fundamental. I don't care if you're losing, play the game correctly.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,224
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 19, 2023 20:38:47 GMT -5
Well, just a couple things here. First, when your starting guards shoot 4-18 (which included two late baskets) and 0-6 from three, you ain't winning. And second, it just seems truly weird to me that we are a pretty good offensive rebounding team, but a terrible defensive rebounding team. That seems to be the case in most games. Today, Butler had nearly as many offensive rebounds as we had defensive rebounds. That is completely unacceptable, but it just seems to be our fate this season.
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Post by LoudSoundOfREBOUND on Dec 19, 2023 20:41:16 GMT -5
Many of the same frustrations that have plagued the team all year: giving up too many offensive rebounds, poor interior defense- and while there were still sloppy turnovers- from what I saw I'd call it an improvement. There are still many issues with overall defensive fundamentals. What good I saw I saw from the players I wanted to see it from. Brumbaugh, Fielder, and Styles all seem like a solid core (toss in a healthy Epps). If we can get a legitimate rim protector/ back to the basket threat next year I think we'll be in great shape. I'm not sure if Sorber fits this mold. Future looks good. I keep having to remind myself that the rebuild was never going to happen overnight. The players fought today. I missed run that put Butler up big before the half, but agree with the above statement that the game was largely even aside from that.
I'll add: While I think Cooley gives some players more minutes than they deserve, I appreciate his using almost all of his scholarship players (granted, injuries and a short roster "help"). While there are flashes of hero ball here and there, no player seems to have the limitless leash that we've seen in previous years. I think that will pay dividends when players have the opportunity to change schools.
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thedragon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Posts: 2,333
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Post by thedragon on Dec 19, 2023 20:41:49 GMT -5
Meh. Epps looked like a guy with legs who didn't play for a week. Rowan had good and bad moments. Posh bothered him and Epps. Massoud and Heath HAVE to contribute as 5th year seniors for this team to have a chance. Getting zero out of them on both ends of the court is a killer. Styles was a stud. Cook was really good in long stretches. Bristol was active and noticeable, but he still has the occasional bone head lapse.
The 13-0 run to end the half was the backbreaker. Butler is a poor matchup for Fiedler right now. Not strong enough in the paint to play him at the 5 or the 4 for long stretches, especially when we were in zone.
I'm not going to get too high or low during this stretch. 2-5 is the goal in my mind in the first 7. Keep getting better. Would it shock anyone if A. Butler was a bubble team this year and B. We beat them at home? If the answer is yes to both then we're plugging along the rebuild just fine. The fact that the players that don't seem to have a higher ceiling, are players that aren't in future plans, is exactly how to build a roster.
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Post by dariantownesvanzandt on Dec 19, 2023 20:46:31 GMT -5
Well, just a couple things here. First, when your starting guards shoot 4-18 (which included two late baskets) and 0-6 from three, you ain't winning. And second, it just seems truly weird to me that we are a pretty good offensive rebounding team, but a terrible defensive rebounding team. That seems to be the case in most games. Today, Butler had nearly as many offensive rebounds as we had defensive rebounds. That is completely unacceptable, but it just seems to be our fate this season. People need to stop thinking this. The two often have little to do with one another. Of last year's best 10 defensive rebounding teams (least off rebs allowed), 7 of them finished 275+ (i.e. awful) in offensive rebounding. This year - of the top 10 offensive rebounding teams, only 3 are in the Top 100 in defensive rebounding. Last year only 4 were.
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mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,759
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Post by mfk24 on Dec 19, 2023 20:58:58 GMT -5
Just not quite good enough. Defense is atrocious and unfortunately, even if scheme is decent, not only do we lack any plus defenders, we also have some net negative defenders too. In order to compensate for this, we need to play mistake free basketball but we can’t hold on to the ball either so it’s just a mess. Just gotta hope that another offseason putting in the work to get better defensively will pay dividends next year.
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thedragon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Posts: 2,333
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Post by thedragon on Dec 19, 2023 21:03:28 GMT -5
Was hard to make out in the post game presser. It sounded like Cooley was basically saying that reporters should be giving Matta love for how he put together this older roster and had them mesh quickly rather than MMQB timeouts and coaching decisions. And some Butler reporter told him it was disrespectful. I'll have to watch the video again to see what this nothingburger was about.
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bluegray79
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,100
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Post by bluegray79 on Dec 19, 2023 21:06:18 GMT -5
I love EC and am all in on the (re)build. Scratching my head, though -- we are the second best three-point shooting team in the Big East. We live and die by it, right? So why are we not better at creating movement in the offensive end that finds shooters open behind the arc? Started getting a few more looks in the last 5-7 minutes, but if that's our thing, why aren't we better at doing what's necessary to do our thing?
Butler played pretty good D and made it tough, but if we can't get good looks from 3-point land on a consistent basis in BE play, we're done. This is not the toughest defense we're going to see. I hope EC gets them better at that.
We had too many turnovers, but there seemed to be fewer in the air TO's, and I think that's a trend I'd like to see continue. Would seem to indicate playing more under control and disciplined.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Dec 19, 2023 21:06:40 GMT -5
Well, just a couple things here. First, when your starting guards shoot 4-18 (which included two late baskets) and 0-6 from three, you ain't winning. And second, it just seems truly weird to me that we are a pretty good offensive rebounding team, but a terrible defensive rebounding team. That seems to be the case in most games. Today, Butler had nearly as many offensive rebounds as we had defensive rebounds. That is completely unacceptable, but it just seems to be our fate this season. This is basically the season in a nutshell. I said it after the win at ND and it's held true in previous losses as well as tonight. Just too many guys who are completely disinterested in helping to end a possession with a fundamental boxout and rebound who ARE also capable of crashing the glass with max effort on the offensive end because it could lead to putback points and stat padding. I refuse to believe that our defensive rebounding is being completely held back across the board by scheme and personnel. Guys just need to WANT to do it on both ends and take some pride in getting stops. It's something I'm sure fell on deaf ears towards the end of the last regime. I expected Ed to be able to clean this up a little sooner than this. As a team... 16 defensive rebounds, 15 offensive rebounds surrendered. Supreme Cook... 6 offensive rebounds, 1 defensive rebound tonight. Starting center managed 1 defensive rebound in 29 minutes. I don't like singling guys out but that is unacceptable. Our first shot defense has room for improvement but it certainly is good enough to survive if we hold our own on the boards like we should. It's purely an effort thing IMO. Take some pride in getting a stop and get the damn defensive board. For a team that struggles as badly as we do to generate turnovers, it should be even MORE of an emphasis. There will be other BE teams that we will struggle to keep off the boards, and there's little than can be done to prevent that. I accept that. Butler is not one of those teams. Really had hoped to get some momentum coming off the road win. Poor effort tonight.
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hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,862
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Post by hoyaguy on Dec 19, 2023 21:14:30 GMT -5
I wonder if this has been already tried elsewhere, but having a low-key NIL type of performance based deal could be a decent motivator for teams (not saying we should) that pays out for aspects of the game that players tend to be less motivated for such as defensive rebounds. So essentially if a team does not allow more than say 5 offensive rebounds then every gets $500 so it creates collective accountability. However, it cannot be for things such as scoring or steals as it would motivate bad behavior. I wouldn't be shocked if it is already being used elsewhere as it is in professional soccer with bonuses for goals, assists, and clean sheets but those bonuses are not usually posted as publicly as salary for players or common in general depending on the league.
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thedragon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Posts: 2,333
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Post by thedragon on Dec 19, 2023 21:16:30 GMT -5
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,224
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 19, 2023 21:18:35 GMT -5
Well, just a couple things here. First, when your starting guards shoot 4-18 (which included two late baskets) and 0-6 from three, you ain't winning. And second, it just seems truly weird to me that we are a pretty good offensive rebounding team, but a terrible defensive rebounding team. That seems to be the case in most games. Today, Butler had nearly as many offensive rebounds as we had defensive rebounds. That is completely unacceptable, but it just seems to be our fate this season. People need to stop thinking this. The two often have little to do with one another. Of last year's best 10 defensive rebounding teams (least off rebs allowed), 7 of them finished 275+ (i.e. awful) in offensive rebounding. This year - of the top 10 offensive rebounding teams, only 3 are in the Top 100 in defensive rebounding. Last year only 4 were. This is interesting, but it doesn't change the fact that we are a very poor defensive rebounding team, and I wish we were better. We need to be better. See Rockaway's comment above.
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