saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,900
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Post by saxagael on Nov 25, 2023 15:03:46 GMT -5
Hoya Saxa. Really happy to see a win. It wasn't pretty, but illness, foul trouble, and injuries made it tougher than it should have been. I'm liking Epps, who can get buckets, but also plays team ball at small guard. Having Bacote, who can run point in but not great with points nor defense seems to lead to quick bench time. Epps ability to run point if there is no Rowan and keep teammates and himslef going was really nice to see. Having another good (and big) point along side Epps who can set up Epps, get buckets, be aggressive on defense for steals and rebounds is missed. The lack of depth and lack of inside rebounding beasts really showed again. And Styles is smooth! A couple of great blocks as well. I really like Syles mid-range and his ability to get to the basket. It really changes the defensive spacing on the floor. The first few games his defense had a lot of holes, but he's adjusting and the switches he is picking up who he should be. So nice to see players and a team picking up the instrcting and putting it to use. Styles needs to box out better, but I'm liking his play a lot the last couple games.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 25, 2023 15:06:22 GMT -5
barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Georgetown&year=2024Pro: Best offensive game by efficiency by a wide margin. In fact it was our best offensive game since February 2020 vs Butler. Con: Worst defensive game by efficiency by a wide margin. Sadly I can’t find a game worse during the Ewing era which seems impossible. Even the 40 point loss at Creighton on the last day of the year was slightly rated better. I’m not sure I buy either stat, as my eyes tell me we’ve played better offensively and worse defensively, but the numbers are the numbers. The first shot defense is decent at times, with enough breakdowns to make it subpar. The inability to rebound made it awful.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 25, 2023 15:07:01 GMT -5
We need one more legit big in the dec/January portal/break whatever you want to call it. I have been saying how important this is if we want to be competitive in Big East play for months. You say a lot of dumb things. Tough day for you. Hoyas winning and all. I know.
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traversb
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 400
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Post by traversb on Nov 25, 2023 15:12:59 GMT -5
barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Georgetown&year=2024Pro: Best offensive game by efficiency by a wide margin. In fact it was our best offensive game since February 2020 vs Butler. Con: Worst defensive game by efficiency by a wide margin. Sadly I can’t find a game worse during the Ewing era, which seems impossible. Even the 40 point loss at Creighton on the last day of the year last season was slightly rated better. I’m not sure I buy either stat, as my eyes tell me we’ve played better offensively and worse defensively, but the numbers are the numbers. I think Jackson State’s computer metrics going into this one have skewed both, but still interesting. It feels like we are playing better defensively (rebounding aside), but the computer numbers are still quite poor. I also think the weakly rated list of opponents we’ve played to date (and not blown out other than Le Moyne) is a factor as well. Those O and D numbers feel right to me. That was a downright awful defensive performance when you realize it wasn’t a hot 3 point shooting game. They got whatever they wanted wherever they wanted most times down. On O it was an incredible shooting performance and tons of good 1 on 1 plays more than good shots. Not sure there was much offense run but when you have a few guys that hit it doesn’t matter.
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astrohoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 303
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Post by astrohoya on Nov 25, 2023 15:26:46 GMT -5
We took 54 shots and Jackson St. took 72. Really hard to win with that differential.
We only had four more FT and one more turnover, so that is all about the rebounding.
Even though our three defense is much improved, our Pomeroy defense number is now 291, way worse than it was under Ewing. This surprises me and is the single biggest worry I have. The biggest issues by far are getting defensive rebounds and not forcing turnovers. A second issue is allowing too many close in shots…part of that derived from the rebounding issues.
The defensive rebounding is a team wide problem. Cook has been very poor for a big guy, and way off his previous stats at Fairfield (which cannot be explained by the schedule at this point in the season). He was getting 24% of all misses on defense last year. That is 15% this year. This is exceptionally poor for a center. None of the other players with minutes are good rebounders either, and Epps is especially poor. Fielder is the only decent rebounder who plays, and he is a defensive liability otherwise.
None of the other bad rebounders have any history of doing better. (In fact Bristol has doubled his defensive rebounding rate from last year.) Not sure what the issue is with Cook, but he needs to find his defensive rebounding mojo. This is going to be a weak spot anyway, and it is a gaping hole if the guy who is supposed to rebound isn’t.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,436
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 25, 2023 15:29:53 GMT -5
Jay Heath - gritty game, could tell he's not 100% but gutted it out. 9 assists, 6 boards and some big shots, great effort. Turf toe is a very painful and generally takes a while to heal. It sounds like nothing, but is anything but. orthoinfo.aaos.org/en/diseases--conditions/turf-toe/Also - attendance 4126 I don't believe that for a second! (The attendance, that is).
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astrohoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 303
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Post by astrohoya on Nov 25, 2023 15:36:38 GMT -5
Follow up to my previous post. I look up Massoud and he is very bad rebounder. He has also gotten worse over his career was comically bad for a 6’9” guy last year, grabbing 7% of all defensive misses. If anything his return will make that problem worse.
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bills
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 248
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Post by bills on Nov 25, 2023 15:45:41 GMT -5
I guess we are at the point where all wins are good wins but it doesn’t feel good to think we are essentially a mid to low mid major level team. It’s fun to watch the heaters at least. We have 10 scholarship players and two starters were out with injuries, two had only a few minutes, and two others were playing hurt. Heath was really struggling. Our 6th man, today a starter, had to sit a big chunk of the second half with 4 fouls. Basically 6 guys found a way to win, in a large part with the defense they played in the last 4 minutes. Bristol played a great game at both ends of the floor. I think they are starting to learn how to win as a team. With Massoud, Brumbaugh, and Heath fully recovered this would not have been a close game. And Jackson State beat Missouri on the road. We are not a low mid-major level team. We are certainly not a high level P5 team, but that was not expected this year. We are seeing growth every game. 3 pt defense is good, ball movement is creating open shots, turnovers down this game against full court pressure. Lots of work needed on rebounding and we will need everybody on the floor blocking out and scrapping for rebounds. Lots to be happy about in terms of progress towards solid team defense like they played to close out the game and team offense to create open shots. And a lot more fun to watch than the last few years.
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bills
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 248
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Post by bills on Nov 25, 2023 15:52:54 GMT -5
Obviously my expectations have been managed way down, but this was a great team effort from a really, really, really shorthanded team. To recap - Akok Akok - Very late transfer from the program Ish Massoud - Broken (shooting) hand Rowan Brumbaugh - Out (illness) Jay Heath - Turf toe, limping around the floor Jayden Epps - Dislocated Finger (shooting hand) Cook, Styles and Bristol - Four fouls each This game made me really proud to be a fan. Bristol in particular played smart to not pick up his 5th foul even guarding their top scorer. He was a key to winning this game. Cook played a solid 2nd half and made sure not to foul out. Turned it around at the free throw line.
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hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,872
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Post by hoyaguy on Nov 25, 2023 15:54:06 GMT -5
Listen, no one is going to do cartwheels for beating Jackson State in a struggle, but these are games we would've lost last year. There also will come a time when our turnovers will be down. Our shooting will be hot. AND we hold our own on the glass. We haven't put those 3 together in a game yet - we will beat some teams we shouldn't when we do. I seem to recall Jackson State beating everyone’s favorite coach, Denny Gates and the Missouri Tigers the other week. I can kind of see why as Jackson state had their moments and strengths. But until we make it past the second round and finish a season in the top 25, I think chirping at Gates should really wait lol
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Massholya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Massholya on Nov 25, 2023 15:57:33 GMT -5
Seems to me the rebounding has a lot to do with guys getting beat on the periphery forcing the big guys to help. Only caught the first half but it seems if we can improve on keeping guys in front of us, the rebounding should improve.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Nov 25, 2023 16:00:22 GMT -5
Best shooting team we have had in a while. The depth is a little bothersome.
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DudeSlade
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I got through the Esherick years. I can get through anything.
Posts: 1,209
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Post by DudeSlade on Nov 25, 2023 16:04:52 GMT -5
The last time I felt so confident in a player’s off the dribble scoring ability and outside shooting as I do with Epps was DSR. But he’s more agile/faster. Would be amazing if he developed the same ability to take contact.
Someone pointed out Styles has some Otto in his game and I think that’s right. He needs to become defensively and rebounding position wise more aware. That was a huge value that Otto provided. And he’d need to have the take over the game down the stretch ability like Otto. But there’s not a lot of wasted effort, generally takes good shots, makes smart offensive plays, and has a nice close-in mid-range game.
Really thought Cook would be better after Le Moyne. I know that was an unusually poor opponent, but thought his physicality and effort would continue. Seems to cost us defensively inside and with rebounding. And not offer much offensively. Really want to like the kid. But he hasn’t shown much since that game.
Exacerbating it is that Mutombo apparently is so poor he can’t get more than 2 minutes in a game that we are short handed and need size, defense, rebounding. I just don’t get it. What has he done for 3 years? I’ve never seen a 7 footer at Georgetown be so unuseful.
Our guards need to help with rebounding and collapse down, given our limitations. They just stay out at the 3 and their guys in this game were collapsing, getting ORebounds. Late in the game, there were a few times 3 guys would go for a block and leave the rebound wide open or they anticipated the layup going in and didn’t react til too late to the rebound. Just need a lot more want-to for rebounds from the whole team.
Lastly, not good to only get 1 point from 33 minutes of bench time across 3 subs. I know we’re short handed but that’s exactly it - we need our 4-star big to get more than a late free throw and Bacote to at least force the defense to guard him once in a while. That said, the overall shooting percentage and scoring is hard to argue with when Epps and Styles are so efficient. Didn’t feel like a lot of bad shots either. Maybe not easy shots but ones in their bag. Guess the team will ride them this year.
Agree with others that I’m curious what the team with Massoud and a healthy Heath can look like. Not typical Cooley defense/rebounding but should be able to score plenty.
If we can get a starting caliber transfer center to pair with the recruits coming in next year, this team has some great pieces toward the rebuild.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 25, 2023 16:09:49 GMT -5
Follow up to my previous post. I look up Massoud and he is very bad rebounder. He has also gotten worse over his career was comically bad for a 6’9” guy last year, grabbing 7% of all defensive misses. If anything his return will make that problem worse. Last year was 1.7 a game. But K State was a good team that almost made the final four. So they might of had enough rebounders where there wasn’t a need for him to rebound or their bigs just grabbed all the boards that would have come to him. He had 3.4 rebounds when ar Wake forest IIrC. Not great but serviceable for a small forward or a 3pt shooting stretch 4.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 25, 2023 16:16:44 GMT -5
We took 54 shots and Jackson St. took 72. Really hard to win with that differential. We only had four more FT and one more turnover, so that is all about the rebounding. Even though our three defense is much improved, our Pomeroy defense number is now 291, way worse than it was under Ewing. This surprises me and is the single biggest worry I have. The biggest issues by far are getting defensive rebounds and not forcing turnovers. A second issue is allowing too many close in shots…part of that derived from the rebounding issues. The defensive rebounding is a team wide problem. Cook has been very poor for a big guy, and way off his previous stats at Fairfield (which cannot be explained by the schedule at this point in the season). He was getting 24% of all misses on defense last year. That is 15% this year. This is exceptionally poor for a center. None of the other players with minutes are good rebounders either, and Epps is especially poor. Fielder is the only decent rebounder who plays, and he is a defensive liability otherwise. None of the other bad rebounders have any history of doing better. (In fact Bristol has doubled his defensive rebounding rate from last year.) Not sure what the issue is with Cook, but he needs to find his defensive rebounding mojo. This is going to be a weak spot anyway, and it is a gaping hole if the guy who is supposed to rebound isn’t. At the end of the day I’ll take the win over all the stats and analytics in the world
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BeantownHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,896
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Post by BeantownHoya on Nov 25, 2023 16:23:22 GMT -5
Sorry if this has been said but if it has it should be repeated...
We have been so much better on the immediate possession out of a time out and on our baseline inbounds under the opposing hoop...
I know that's not rocket science but it's some of the little things that have plagued this team the last 4+ years...
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,389
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Post by drquigley on Nov 25, 2023 16:30:30 GMT -5
I'm happy for the W like everyone else but I think it would be worth a loss if Cooley gave Motumbo 15+ minutes. J State was just mean under the boards and I think Ryan needs to get banged up and pushed around to develop Lic level meanery. Look, we're not going anywhere this year so why not see if we can develop Ryan into a legit BE center. If we can't then focus on recruiting or stealing one next year.
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bluegray79
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,101
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Post by bluegray79 on Nov 25, 2023 16:32:05 GMT -5
I keep reminding myself that Fielder was playing high school ball this time last year. He is coming along, and while he may be lost at times, he also is playing hard and getting lots of playing time for a freshman. He is going to get better and better with patience and good coaching. Really excited to think what's ahead for him.
Totally loving what Wayne and Jay did today. Hoping Jay can get and stay healthy -- he certainly has the guts and plays at a high level even while injured. He brings a lot to the court in ball handling, scoring at all levels, and experience/leadership.
Dickey Simpkins also noted what we all have been seeing from Wayne -- he does a lot of things on the court that don't show up in the final score sheet. He brings high court IQ, big energy (I don't mind most of his fouls that result in his being a little too over aggressive on D), and he's steady presence out there and shows maturity and leadership. Plus, it looks like he's getting his stroke back which would be a big bonus for the team.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 25, 2023 16:39:08 GMT -5
I don't believe that for a second! (The attendance, that is). When I worked in the SID office, the last 2 digits were always the day (obviously not the case now since today is the 25th).
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,794
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 25, 2023 16:41:32 GMT -5
I'm happy for the W like everyone else but I think it would be worth a loss if Cooley gave Motumbo 15+ minutes. J State was just mean under the boards and I think Ryan needs to get banged up and pushed around to develop Lic level meanery. Look, we're not going anywhere this year so why not see if we can develop Ryan into a legit BE center. If we can't then focus on recruiting or stealing one next year. Since a 15 point, 11 rebound game against UMBC in the 2021-22 season, Ryan Mutombo has scored 132 points and only 35 since the start of last season. He's a smart young man with a future beyond basketball but he's not mobile, and as such as he's trending somewhere between Timothy Ighoefe and Trey Mourning as a comparison set.
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