mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,759
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Post by mfk24 on Nov 18, 2023 14:09:57 GMT -5
Getting killed in second half by a lesser opponent. And please do not overinflate MSM Lol, we are the lesser opponent. We just lost to Holy Cross a week ago. We are not a good basketball team right now, full stop. I get wanting to be better than we are right now, but for the last 2 years, we’ve been the team that other write in as a W. And while I do expect to win a few more BE games just by virtue of having a coach who knows what he’s doing, it’s gonna a be grind. It’s not MSM that’s overinflated, it’s our own Hoya team that people are overinflating. Now do I think we’ll get better as the season goes on? Absolutely. Turnovers can get cleaned up. We may never be a strong defensive team, but that can improve over the course of a season. Rebounding has and will continue to get better. Shot selection. All of those things will get better the more these guys play together in live action.
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Post by hsaxon on Nov 18, 2023 14:12:38 GMT -5
Face it, we are being outplayed by Mt St Mary's in the second half. It is still a W but this squad leaves a lot to be desired. We aren’t getting outplayed. We are beating ourselves with sloppy play. Whenever we protect the ball and run our stuff we handily beat them. They’re only in this game by 11 (right now) because we are constantly turning it over and making bad plays. We had 20 turnovers, they had 10.
We had 7 steals, they had 13.
Fundamentally very poor.
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daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,352
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Post by daveg023 on Nov 18, 2023 14:14:10 GMT -5
To me this is an Epps and Brumbaugh problem thus far. They have been subpar and below my expectations. I never thought the backcourt would be our issue, as the frontcourt has been what I expected. Styles is the only player who’s playing at or above the level I thought.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,607
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 18, 2023 14:17:05 GMT -5
Should be interesting to see how they handle a game tomorrow.
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Post by hsaxon on Nov 18, 2023 14:17:12 GMT -5
To me this is an Epps and Brumbaugh problem thus far. They have been subpar and below my expectations. I never thought the backcourt would be our issue, as the frontcourt has been what I expected. Styles is the only player who’s playing at or above the level I thought. Styles playing above, I believe.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,962
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 18, 2023 14:18:27 GMT -5
It was a messy win, but a win. The turnovers were horrible but that can be improved. I feel like we did deal with pressure better than against Rutgers (though still not great). I realize the sloppy stuff wasn’t good, but I don’t see why everyone is being so negative. Did anybody really expect a team that lost to Holy Cross to come back and beat Mount Saint Mary’s by 40? Had we not beat ourselves with turnovers we would have won this by 25+. The answer to your "why is everyone so negative" questions get answered by the bolded part of your post. It's not about winning by 40, it's about playing a competent ball game. Making the same mistakes throughout the entire game isn't a good look as you've pointed out
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thedragon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by thedragon on Nov 18, 2023 14:22:26 GMT -5
Obviously will happily take the win. And they did cover Vegas' spread. But still way too many unforced errors. Turnovers. End of game energy/toughness. Defensive lapses. Low IQ shots/plays. And you can see Cooley just wanting to lose his mind. You know they've worked on every one these things in practice.
20 turnovers - 14 of the 20 from the 4 guards that played. Epps leading the way with 6.
Lost Points in Paint 48-42. The fact that these low level mid majors keep winning the points in paint battle is a scary thought for BE play.
Bench points. 39-6. That's not a typo.
We essentially went 8 deep with Ryan making a brief cameo.
On the positive side - Styles is a ball player. Efficient. No turnovers.
The guard play has to be waaaaaay better if this team isn't going to be a similar bottom feeder to last 2 years.
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kettlehill
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,149
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Post by kettlehill on Nov 18, 2023 14:29:22 GMT -5
To me this is an Epps and Brumbaugh problem thus far. They have been subpar and below my expectations. I never thought the backcourt would be our issue, as the frontcourt has been what I expected. Styles is the only player who’s playing at or above the level I thought. I thought Brumbaugh played a whole lot better in the second half as did Fielder, which I took as an encouraging sign. Supreme needs to play angry/agressive more often- makes a big difference. Pre-season, I suggested that Styles might be a good rebounder, solely judged on a recruiting blurb by Evan Daniels..."...tremendous rebounder". Looks like Evan was right, I think he will be our leading rebounder this year. There are some silver linings....
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
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Post by TC on Nov 18, 2023 14:49:32 GMT -5
Cooley - back to back games was purposeful in preparation for Big East Tournament - Bacote moved the ball well in the first half, guards overall need to do a better job - Dontrez's best basketball is yet to come - they got better against the press but not where they need to be - not a big zone coach but you need to do what you need to do to win the game - Supreme is an Adonis (in response to how he takes care of his body) - reporters did a better job today
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astrohoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 303
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Post by astrohoya on Nov 18, 2023 15:00:11 GMT -5
It was a messy win, but a win. The turnovers were horrible but that can be improved. I feel like we did deal with pressure better than against Rutgers (though still not great). I realize the sloppy stuff wasn’t good, but I don’t see why everyone is being so negative. Did anybody really expect a team that lost to Holy Cross to come back and beat Mount Saint Mary’s by 40? Had we not beat ourselves with turnovers we would have won this by 25+. The answer to your "why is everyone so negative" questions get answered by the bolded part of your post. It's not about winning by 40, it's about playing a competent ball game. Making the same mistakes throughout the entire game isn't a good look as you've pointed out I actually think we’ve been making different mistakes each game, and that is a good sign. For instance, the rebounding disaster against Holy Cross has been better. Against Rutgers we did not move the ball at all, ending up with 4 assists. Today we moved the ball a lot and constantly made the extra pass, upping to 17 assists. Now some of those passes were really bad, which was most of the 20 turnovers. But if we keep making adjustments as we get experienced, we’ll get a better balance. This to me is way better than the last two years where we repeatedly made the same mistakes every game.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,386
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Post by drquigley on Nov 18, 2023 15:06:38 GMT -5
It’s definitely not the same. If a team is just better than you, you can play a perfect game and still get beat, but if you’re turning the ball over 20+ time a game, that’s self inflicted. These aren’t MSM making great defensive plays, we are just giving the ball away half the time. If we are turning the ball over like crazy and our opponents aren't WE ARE BEING OUTPLAYED!
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,489
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Post by hoyaboya on Nov 18, 2023 15:13:53 GMT -5
Through 4 games, we have 62 turnovers and our opponents have 43. That is against LeMoyne (KenPom #360 out of 362), Holy Cross (KenPom #332), Rutgers (KenPom #72) and Mt. St. Mary's (KenPom #269).
If we turn the ball over like this against bad competition, and don't force the opponents to turn the ball over, it's going to be tough to win. You have to massively out-rebound and/or shoot a higher percentage than your opponents to make up for the turnover differential.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,489
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Post by hoyaboya on Nov 18, 2023 15:16:52 GMT -5
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hoyas315
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,102
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Post by hoyas315 on Nov 18, 2023 15:26:13 GMT -5
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SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,339
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Post by SDHoya on Nov 18, 2023 15:30:18 GMT -5
Against HC we got murdered on the glass. Against Rutgers and again today we won the rebounding battle handily.
Against Rutgers we had 4 assists and minimal ball movement. Today we had 17 assists.
Turnover problems when the opponent plays aggressive defense---not yet resolved.
It seems to me that Cooley is getting through to his team and is making adjustments. Best case scenario, this is going to be a "two steps forward one step back" season. I'll take that so long as the overall trend line moves up.
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mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,759
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Post by mfk24 on Nov 18, 2023 15:36:03 GMT -5
It’s definitely not the same. If a team is just better than you, you can play a perfect game and still get beat, but if you’re turning the ball over 20+ time a game, that’s self inflicted. These aren’t MSM making great defensive plays, we are just giving the ball away half the time. If we are turning the ball over like crazy and our opponents aren't WE ARE BEING OUTPLAYED! Nice, throw a tantrum like a child lol. Did you stomp your foot and pout too? Internet yelling is a bit beneath you, isn’t it? Listen we all want the same thing for this season, a competent and competitive team that’s enjoyable to watch. Hopefully string together some wins. We’re not there yet, and it doesn’t so much matter who the opponent is at this point.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,386
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Post by drquigley on Nov 18, 2023 16:12:08 GMT -5
If we are turning the ball over like crazy and our opponents aren't WE ARE BEING OUTPLAYED! Nice, throw a tantrum like a child lol. Did you stomp your foot and pout too? Internet yelling is a bit beneath you, isn’t it? Listen we all want the same thing for this season, a competent and competitive team that’s enjoyable to watch. Hopefully string together some wins. We’re not there yet, and it doesn’t so much matter who the opponent is at this point. I don't know how to bold or italicize so I resorted to all caps. Sorry I offended you.
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bluegray79
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,100
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Post by bluegray79 on Nov 18, 2023 16:22:46 GMT -5
Was at the game and have this: we here on HoyaTalk are hypercritical. We see all mistakes -- glaring and slight -- and tend to go negative first. I was harping on all sorts of picky negative stuff I was seeing with a few friends, and they were saying how much better we are from last year, and give it time - they have some nice pieces and they're going to improve and be a different team come February. (Maybe by "we", I mean "I"?) The press is problematic but today was better than the Rutgers game. Dontrez is impressive at both ends. He can sky and he has been pretty consistent with his shooting. Like his game and expect it to get better. Rowan & Epps are out of synch often but I think that will smooth out with time. Epps can't pull up and stop dribbling under pressure without an option for the ball. More assists -- absolutely key. Saw a few Me ball efforts -- one or 2 worked out for a basket, but you rarely get a high percentage shot in a half court setup. Drew looked less lost and played hard. If Wayne starts hitting shots, he will be a valuable piece -- he's smart out there, anticipates well, and contributes a lot on defense. Overall, though, you could see that the team had worked to improve on a couple of things, and we might imagine that, with time, they will get better.
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mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,759
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Post by mfk24 on Nov 18, 2023 16:38:00 GMT -5
Nice, throw a tantrum like a child lol. Did you stomp your foot and pout too? Internet yelling is a bit beneath you, isn’t it? Listen we all want the same thing for this season, a competent and competitive team that’s enjoyable to watch. Hopefully string together some wins. We’re not there yet, and it doesn’t so much matter who the opponent is at this point. I don't know how to bold or italicize so I resorted to all caps. Sorry I offended you. All good! All caps = internet yelling, but no harm, no foul. We all love our Hoyas and want to see them succeed.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Nov 18, 2023 18:04:49 GMT -5
Do you actually have nothing better to do on a Saturday afternoon than post your garbage here?
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