Georgetown @ Rutgers 11/15/23 Gavitt Games Discusssion

[DanMcQ]

8:30 PM on FS1

[seaweed]

Wednesday 11/15

[DanMcQ]

Nov 13, 2023 18:42:08 GMT -5 seaweed said:

Wednesday 11/15

Yeah I know. Fat thumb syndrome.

[iowa80]

FWIW Caden Pierce of Princeton-6'7'', 220--had 15 boards against Rutgers.

[seaweed]

Nov 13, 2023 21:45:42 GMT -5 iowa80 said:

FWIW Caden Pierce of Princeton-6'7'', 220--had 15 boards against Rutgers.

What we ought to have learned against HC is that it’s not the size of the dawg in the fight that gets rebounds, it is the size of the fight in the dawg. And the number. A committed, scrappy group of smaller guys are going to disrupt and bang about “clean rebounds” to create ricochets, caroms and odd bounces that they can collect. We need to team rebound and not rely on being the bigger body.

[bills]

While I agree that a big part of rebounding is attitude, I think HC also did a much better job of boxing out on the rebounds, a key fundamental. Not every rebound was a long one and roo many times there were three HC players with inside position getting the rebound with little competition from us. Being in the right position to rebound is the most important skill to learn.

[professorhoya]

Nov 14, 2023 5:51:25 GMT -5 seaweed said:

Nov 13, 2023 21:45:42 GMT -5 iowa80 said:

FWIW Caden Pierce of Princeton-6'7'', 220--had 15 boards against Rutgers.

What we ought to have learned against HC is that it’s not the size of the dawg in the fight that gets rebounds, it is the size of the fight in the dawg. And the number. A committed, scrappy group of smaller guys are going to disrupt and bang about “clean rebounds” to create ricochets, caroms and odd bounces that they can collect. We need to team rebound and not rely on being the bigger body.

Size is still important.
Fielder is tall but not big at 6-9 215 lbs.
On one play he actually boxed out but was hip checked in the butt by a 6-6 220 lbs Holy Cross player and was easily moved out of position.

On another play he grabbed the rebound with two hands arms up high and had the ball ripped away from him from behind.

Part of it is rookie jitters. He grabbed a board and swung his elbow in frustration not realizing he was fighting his own teammate (Supreme). This indicates that he’s shell shocked and not relaxed with even Holy Cross level of college play.

My concern was that his high school body (he will eventually fill out) would not be able to handle centers like Donovan Clingan, Dixon or Kalkbrenner. But he’s even struggling against 6-6 power forwards.

Center is a real hole for us. Cook is good but undersized. Mutombo doesn’t hustle (was walking on a play before getting yanked) and just shoots long mid ranges which 2003 says is the worst shot in basketball. And fielder won’t be able to play center effectively this year in the Big East.

The only good thing is Cooley seems to realize this by playing Fielder at power forward alongside Cook or Mutombo. Hopefully Cooley will hit the portal to grab a big who can play starting in January.

Our guards and wings are very good so if we did have some big man help and depth we could actually make the tournament. But that would require us getting a January big man.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Nov 14, 2023 13:19:52 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Mutombo doesn’t hustle (was walking on a play before getting yanked) and just shoots long mid ranges which 2003 says is the worst shot in basketball.

Mutombo's only shot this year was near the rim, and last year 13/16 shots were near the rim. So I am not sure why you are saying he shoots long/mid range shots. He doesn't, but to be fair he hasn't shot much since he's barely played this year or last.

[prhoya]

Nov 14, 2023 14:41:55 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Nov 14, 2023 13:19:52 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Mutombo doesn’t hustle (was walking on a play before getting yanked) and just shoots long mid ranges which 2003 says is the worst shot in basketball.

Mutombo's only shot this year was near the rim, and last year 13/16 shots were near the rim. So I am not sure why you are saying he shoots long/mid range shots. He doesn't, but to be fair he hasn't shot much since he's barely played this year or last.

Exactly. The eye test will tell you that he shoots near the rim and that his shots go in. His problem is reaction time on defense.

[thedragon]

Ryan is just a poor fit for a variety of reasons. 1 - his defensive instincts, agility, positioning are not anywhere near Big East level. 2 - with the uptempo offense Cooley wants to employ off misses, Ryan is not the needed type of 5 man. 3 - with an overall defensive focus on limiting opponents threes, it requires switching everything 1 thru 5, of which Ryan would end up on wings/guards a lot. 4 - and none of this trumps the fact that two coaching staffs have not so quietly among georgetown circles, chided Ryan for a lack of maturity/focus at times.

None of this is to say that Ryan couldn't carve out a role through force. By either showing himself to be a rim protector, effective rebounder, or more versatile offensive player (all of which will be needed this season). And the fact that Ryan dedicated himself to losing 15 pounds and working on his overall agility should be commended - but there is little reason at this point to believe he can or will be a major contributor. I'd love to be wrong.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Ryan Mutombo has his liabilities but he's 7'2 and he should be able to rebound, something we struggled to do mightily against Holy Cross. I will trust the coaching staff since they have seen him a lot more than we have so far this season, but if our rebounding problems persist, they will need to figure out a way to integrate him so he can play more minutes and help us on that end. One option could be to switch 1-4 but not the 5, but obviously that creates its own problems.

[Massholya]

I want very much for Ryan to succeed. I love his enthusiasm and team spirit. That being said, Ryan does get rebounds because he is tall. Unfortunately he does not get more rebounds because he is not strong and has not developed a knack for good rebounding position. He simply hasn’t shown himself to be a great athlete thus far. He can hit set shots, free throws and if a rebound comes his way he can grab because he is tall. He has shown no ability to get effective post position or overpower anyone. He is neither quick nor strong at this point. Can he change that at this point?

[professorhoya]

Nov 14, 2023 14:41:55 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Nov 14, 2023 13:19:52 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Mutombo doesn’t hustle (was walking on a play before getting yanked) and just shoots long mid ranges which 2003 says is the worst shot in basketball.

Mutombo's only shot this year was near the rim, and last year 13/16 shots were near the rim. So I am not sure why you are saying he shoots long/mid range shots. He doesn't, but to be fair he hasn't shot much since he's barely played this year or last.

If you’ve watched him Enough in games and at Kenner then you know his long mid range is a strength of his. However it doesn’t extend to 3 pters. A very wise man once said that the long mid range is the worst shot in modern basketball. If you take that away from him then all he and is garbage points next to the rim because I haven’t seen any back to the basket post moves from him.

Ideally I think his ceiling is a Matthew Nicholson type slow footed rotation 7 footer. Nicholson gets 25 min a game and makes the most of his limited athleticism. But it takes alot of hard work to get to even that level and Ryan has to put in a lot of work to get there.

www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4702289/matthew-nicholson

[hoyasaxa2003]

Nov 14, 2023 17:13:50 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

If you’ve watched him Enough in games and at Kenner then you know his long mid range is a strength of his. However it doesn’t extend to 3 pters. A very wise man once said that the long mid range is the worst shot in modern basketball. If you take that away from him then all he and is garbage points next to the rim because I haven’t seen any back to the basket post moves from him.

No, I haven't watched Mutombo at Kenner. And he hasn't shot or tried to shoot many mid-range shots in actual games, so while he may like those in a pickup/loosely organized situation like Kenner, I don't think it's really telling for what he would do as part of a structured offense.

You are implying that the only options near the rim are "garbage points" and back to the basket moves. But, that's not true. Watch how Creighton uses Kalkbrenner for example. They move the ball and use an offense that gets Kalkbrenner very high percentage shots near the rim -- mostly layups and dunks. That's how I'd want to see Mutombo used on offense. Shots at the rim are super valuable.

It may have been in another thread, but through 2 games, Connecticut's shots have ALL been in the paint or three point range, except for 2. That's modern basketball.

[professorhoya]

Nov 14, 2023 18:37:14 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Nov 14, 2023 17:13:50 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

If you’ve watched him Enough in games and at Kenner then you know his long mid range is a strength of his. However it doesn’t extend to 3 pters. A very wise man once said that the long mid range is the worst shot in modern basketball. If you take that away from him then all he and is garbage points next to the rim because I haven’t seen any back to the basket post moves from him.

No, I haven't watched Mutombo at Kenner. And he hasn't shot or tried to shoot many mid-range shots in actual games, so while he may like those in a pickup/loosely organized situation like Kenner, I don't think it's really telling for what he would do as part of a structured offense.

You are implying that the only options near the rim are "garbage points" and back to the basket moves. But, that's not true. Watch how Creighton uses Kalkbrenner for example. They move the ball and use an offense that gets Kalkbrenner very high percentage shots near the rim -- mostly layups and dunks. That's how I'd want to see Mutombo used on offense. Shots at the rim are super valuable.

It may have been in another thread, but through 2 games, Connecticut's shots have ALL been in the paint or three point range, except for 2. That's modern basketball.

Kalkbrenner is athletic, quick and decently explosive.
It’s why he was able to be a rotation player even as a freshman with a 7-1 high school frame. Now he has a man size body with that same athleticism.

I don’t see the similarities to Mutombo other than height.

Didn’t you say the center who just scores down low is a dinosaur who isn’t effective in the modern game?

[prhoya]

Nov 14, 2023 17:13:50 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Nov 14, 2023 14:41:55 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Mutombo's only shot this year was near the rim, and last year 13/16 shots were near the rim. So I am not sure why you are saying he shoots long/mid range shots. He doesn't, but to be fair he hasn't shot much since he's barely played this year or last.

If you’ve watched him Enough in games and at Kenner then you know his long mid range is a strength of his. However it doesn’t extend to 3 pters. A very wise man once said that the long mid range is the worst shot in modern basketball. If you take that away from him then all he and is garbage points next to the rim because I haven’t seen any back to the basket post moves from him.

Ideally I think his ceiling is a Matthew Nicholson type slow footed rotation 7 footer. Nicholson gets 25 min a game and makes the most of his limited athleticism. But it takes alot of hard work to get to even that level and Ryan has to put in a lot of work to get there.

www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4702289/matthew-nicholson

I have watched every shot Mutombo has taken in actual games. Are you saying Kenner translates to real games? That’s a new one.

[thedragon]

Holy Cross lost to Sacred Heart tonight.

[iowa80]

Nov 14, 2023 21:22:53 GMT -5 thedragon said:

Holy Cross lost to Sacred Heart tonight.

At home. 

[Nevada Hoya]

We could have used Dickinson; 27 pts, 21 rebs vs Kentucky.

[madmike]

Could have, should have, would have. Can’t wait to see how this team response after a disgusting loss. I feel like this game sets a tone for the rest of the season