drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,382
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Post by drquigley on Oct 11, 2023 13:17:38 GMT -5
Obviously we want all the OOC wins we can get but beating teams in November only tells us so much. I'm thinking it's how we win (or lose) that matters and therefore I'll be looking for several things: 1) ASSISTS - I think we were all disgusted by the Ewing inspired Hero Ball the Hoyas have played the last few years. Let's see assists on at least half our buckets; 2) OPEN 3's - Ignore whether they go in and let's just count how many times opponents are wide open for 3 pointers. I will be hoping for no more than 2-3 a game; 3) DEFENSIVE INTENSITY AND SMARTS - Probably relates to #2 but I just want our guys to actually know how to play defense and commit to it. It would also be nice if they knew how to play various zone defenses and Cooley actually employs them during a game; 4) MOTUMBO - okay this is his junior year, will he be coming to play? He doesn't have to be a scoring machine but would love to see him become a defensive presence like his dad.
I know there are many other signs we should be looking for. Welcome comments.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 11, 2023 13:44:48 GMT -5
I think those 4 things are good items to look for. I think improvement on assists, preventing open threes, and defensive intensity and smarts are all things we absolutely need, and should expect from a Cooley helmed team. As I posted in another thread, Cooley's teams have generally be excellent at defending the three point line, so while I am not expecting excellence this year, I expect us to be significantly improved on Ewing's last two years.
I think your item #4 is also key, but extends beyond Mutombo. On Mutombo, I really think there's a good chance people are selling him short. He's 7'2, he's been pretty good on offense is his limited time, and he seems like he has pretty good ball IQ. So can he contribute a lot more than expected? If the answer is yes, that is one thing that could make us better than expected.
The same goes for others on the team. Can Massoud be as good as he was last year in more limited time? Will Epps elevate his game? What about Styles? Can freshman Fielder help make our rather thin frontcourt deeper? Or will he play like a freshman? On Heath, can he step up and make more shots?
5: Ball Handler? I would add as a #5: who is going to be our ball handler? Is Brumbaugh going to be able to rise above being a redshirt freshman and contribute from day one? How much PG can Epps play? I see this as a fairly significant issue because Heath mightily struggled with ball handling last year. In that sense, we really need both Epps and Brumbaugh to handle some of that duty so we have some depth there.
6. How Do We Handle the Better OOC Games? As #6, I would say: how do we deal with the better teams? Because Cooley scheduled a very weak schedule (one of my few criticisms of Cooley thus far), this is our breakdown of the OOC:
- 7 Given Wins: LeMoyne, Holy Cross, Mount Saint Mary's, American, Jackson State, Merrimack, and Coppin State. While Ewing went to OT against Coppin State last year, and lost to American, neither is an acceptable result.
- 2 Competitive Games Against Other First Year Coaches: Syracuse (home) and Notre Dame (away). We could even be underdogs in these games, but both of them are winnable. Last year, Notre Dame was ranked 166 and Syracuse 118 on KenPom. We need to be competitive in both of these and bad sign if we get blown out in both, as if we cannot beat these teams, who are we going to beat in the Big East?
- 2 Underdog Games: TCU (home) and Rutgers (away). TCU was ranked 25 last year on KenPom, but this is a home game. Rutgers was 39 last year, but not supposed to be as good this year. Definitely the easier of the two games. TCU should bring back a pretty strong team and Dixon is a good coach. Could we win these games? Sure, but I do not expect to win either one.
What Does Our Record Say About Us? So, record wise, anything below 7-4 would be horrible. 7-4 is the floor, expected, and means we probably won't be very good in the Big East. 8-3* could range from okay to pretty good depending on who we beat and how competitive we are in the three losses. 9-2 would be pretty strong, and maybe a sign we are better than expected. 10-1 or 11-0 would be a sign we are much better than expected (but the odds of 10-1 or 11-0 I think are extremely low).
* While I think the 7-4 floor is expected, and obviously 10-1 or 11-0 would be great signs, I think even 7-4 to 9-2 could really be a different range of results. For example, let's say we go 7-4, but barely lose all 4 of the better OOC games, showing growth? Same with 8-3? I could easily envision a scenario where we get destroyed by Rutgers in the third game, but then we grow, barely lose to Notre Dame, beat Syracuse, and stay close to TCU. That'd be 8-3 and pretty good going into Big East. On the other hand, if we are 8-3 simply because we beat the 7 easy teams, and barely scrape out a win against Syracuse, and aren't competitive, that might actually be bad.
This is why I don't like using records, because how you win/lose, especially early in a season, with a new coach, and new roster, really can impact things that aren't reflected in the W/L column.
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bigskyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,094
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Post by bigskyhoya on Oct 11, 2023 16:16:41 GMT -5
Obviously we want all the OOC wins we can get but beating teams in November only tells us so much. I'm thinking it's how we win (or lose) that matters and therefore I'll be looking for several things: 1) ASSISTS - I think we were all disgusted by the Ewing inspired Hero Ball the Hoyas have played the last few years. Let's see assists on at least half our buckets; 2) OPEN 3's - Ignore whether they go in and let's just count how many times opponents are wide open for 3 pointers. I will be hoping for no more than 2-3 a game; 3) DEFENSIVE INTENSITY AND SMARTS - Probably relates to #2 but I just want our guys to actually know how to play defense and commit to it. It would also be nice if they knew how to play various zone defenses and Cooley actually employs them during a game; 4) MOTUMBO - okay this is his junior year, will he be coming to play? He doesn't have to be a scoring machine but would love to see him become a defensive presence like his dad. I know there are many other signs we should be looking for. Welcome comments. It would be great to dominate all the cupcakes but not losing to any of them will be an improvement over past seasons and give us momentum going into the conference schedule. |
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Oct 11, 2023 17:13:05 GMT -5
No injuries with any luck
Hoyas basketball again
More than enough for me
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,382
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Post by drquigley on Oct 11, 2023 17:56:37 GMT -5
One more thing I will be looking for is how our Kenner MVP Ryan Brumbaugh handles the offense. I really think, from what I saw at Kenner, that this kid is a difference maker. If he shows any of the smarts and skills he showed at Kenner we will be a long way to returning to Hoya basketball.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,313
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Post by prhoya on Oct 11, 2023 18:16:25 GMT -5
6. How Do We Handle the Better OOC Games? As #6, I would say: how do we deal with the better teams? Because Cooley scheduled a very weak schedule (one of my few criticisms of Cooley thus far), this is our breakdown of the OOC: - 7 Given Wins: LeMoyne, Holy Cross, Mount Saint Mary's, American, Jackson State, Merrimack, and Coppin State. While Ewing went to OT against Coppin State last year, and lost to American, neither is an acceptable result. - 2 Competitive Games Against Other First Year Coaches: Syracuse (home) and Notre Dame (away). We could even be underdogs in these games, but both of them are winnable. Last year, Notre Dame was ranked 166 and Syracuse 118 on KenPom. We need to be competitive in both of these and bad sign if we get blown out in both, as if we cannot beat these teams, who are we going to beat in the Big East? - 2 Underdog Games: TCU (home) and Rutgers (away). TCU was ranked 25 last year on KenPom, but this is a home game. Rutgers was 39 last year, but not supposed to be as good this year. Definitely the easier of the two games. TCU should bring back a pretty strong team and Dixon is a good coach. Could we win these games? Sure, but I do not expect to win either one. I think we can go 11-0 or 10-1 with a TCU loss. Why? If we don't win those "7 Given Wins" games, it would be Ewing-level bad, so I'm not going there. 7-0. As for the "2 Competitive Games", ND and Syracuse have new coaches, and Cooley is better than them. Although projected to finish #3 by bustingbrackets.com, we know that GU will rise to the occasion vs. Syracuse at home, and ND is projected to finish last in the ACC: www.bustingbrackets.com/2023/10/04/acc-basketball-preseason-power-rankings-2023-24-season/2/ . Other than the returning Mintz and the ND transfer, I'm not impressed with the rest of the Syracuse roster to have enough to beat us at home. As to ND, here a roster preview and it doesn't look good: bustingbrackets.com/2023/10/06/notre-dame-basketball-2023-24-season-preview-for-the-fighting-irish/ 9-0. Finally, the "2 Underdog Games" will be the true tests. TCU's Dixon has GU's number. Although he lost his highest scorer, Dixon had a great transfer portal ( www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2023/05/19/tcu-horned-frogs-mens-basketball-2023-24-offseason-roster-tracker/ ). At least the game is at home. 9-1. Finally, we're going up to Rutgers and their fans blame Cooley for losing elite shooter Spencer. Projected to finish #9 in the B10, Rutgers has no star player on the team and it's very winnable: www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/big-ten-expert-picks-2023-24-predictions-projected-order-of-finish-overrated-and-underrated-teams/ 10-1. I know, I'm drinking the Cooley Kool-Aid. Now, the BE is another story. |
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bluegray79
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,092
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Post by bluegray79 on Oct 11, 2023 21:26:03 GMT -5
Great thread -- thanks for starting it.
a good bulk of the hopes and expectations has been covered pretty well, so please excuse redundancies. Just to piggyback on a few points:
drQuigley gets the ball rolling with some great ones. "Yes" to no hero ball. I hadn't thought of it even being what we might see under EC. Seems so counter to the ball his teams have played in the past and what he seems to preach about playing as a team.
"Yes" to looking forward to how the PG ball handling situation will develop. So key to how the offense will operate. Excited to see Rowan's playmaking. Actually excited to see this whole bunch together on the court. We have some players, and I want to believe that EC can do his magic of making the whole be greater than the sum of its parts.
"Yes" to seeing how Ryan comes out and grows as the year progresses. If he can provide solid defense and rebounding and stay out of foul trouble, that would be a game-changer for how this team might win close games and games where we are the underdog. He seems happy and fired up. Remember he was a 4-star coming out of HS and projected to be a power 5 starter. If he can tap into that kid and be assertive, it would be huge.
"Yes" to seeing how the team defends, esp. the 3. From the man himself, "If you don’t defend you’re never going to play for Georgetown.” In a video where he is showing coaches at some clinic a drill that practices defending the three, he tells the players that if they're allowing 3's, he's going to be on them big time.
2003 and prhoya do some great breakdowns of the OOC games. We play 2 games then go to Rutgers, then 4 games and be home at TCU. Good point that Rutgers has no star player. Still they have become a team with a rep for playing hard-nosed ball, so that will be a test but one I think we can win. If we can put lots of fans in seats making noise and play disciplined ball, then TCU is a close winnable game. Just flat out have to beat Syracuse (do we have that intense defensive player who can neutralize the opponent's best scorer? I picture Mulready being that guy next year, but who's that guy this year? Would be nice to put that guy on Mintz.)
Been waiting to start talking real about this team and this season. Getting closer and can't wait.
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,994
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Post by kghoya on Oct 11, 2023 21:32:08 GMT -5
Nov 2024
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thedragon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 2,313
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Post by thedragon on Oct 11, 2023 22:07:50 GMT -5
I know, I'm drinking the Cooley Kool-Aid. Now, the BE is another story. This is 141 filled jungle juice out of a trash can at Henle Kool-Aid |
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Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,486 
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Post by Elvado on Oct 12, 2023 7:07:19 GMT -5
1. A cohesive offensive scheme
2. A cohesive defensive scheme
3. Consistent effort
4. PT consequences for poor effort or “hero ball”
The rest will follow
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Oct 12, 2023 7:24:19 GMT -5
I would love to see some of the classic Hoya toughness and attitude return. Give me shades of Perry McDonald, Don Reid, PE Jr., etc.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,325
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Post by SSHoya on Oct 12, 2023 10:36:02 GMT -5
New tunes from the Pep Band and routines for the cheerleaders?
Return to a trap set for drums and electric bass which the band has had in the past!
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,994
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Post by kghoya on Oct 12, 2023 10:54:05 GMT -5
Would love to see a nice halftime show. Maybe a play on the Devil Went Down to Georgia or something
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Oct 12, 2023 11:16:31 GMT -5
35 three point attempts a game
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,400
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Post by hoyaboya on Oct 12, 2023 12:11:14 GMT -5
A lot of easy wins - our OOC schedule is incredibly weak, so we should go no worse than 10-1 before Big East play. Cooley’s just like Old Man Thompson, loves him some early season cupcakes.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,353
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Post by calhoya on Oct 12, 2023 13:22:57 GMT -5
Would like to see defense, perimeter shooting, absence of selfish "my turn" basketball and most importantly significantly more people in the stands. Would be nice to see the attendance for the cupcakes in the 6,000 range and for games with Syracuse and TCU over 10,000.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,313
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Post by prhoya on Oct 12, 2023 13:56:27 GMT -5
A lot of easy wins - our OOC schedule is incredibly weak, so we should go no worse than 10-1 before Big East play. Cooley’s just like Old Man Thompson, loves him some early season cupcakes. Disagree. When he took over, Cooley found himself with three good “contract games”, with one of them being an away game. Not one of these games is a cupcake. Then, Cooley added a home/away with Notre Dame in the summer. The fact that three of these four teams are in flux, like us, is not Cooley’s fault. As to the rest of the OOC schedule, I think Cooley realized early in the off-season that he wasn’t going to have a full team. He had to plan accordingly and it led to the seven “easy wins”, although after last year’s loss American should never be considered a cupcake. |
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1789
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by 1789 on Oct 12, 2023 15:26:58 GMT -5
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 12, 2023 15:52:23 GMT -5
A lot of easy wins - our OOC schedule is incredibly weak, so we should go no worse than 10-1 before Big East play. Cooley’s just like Old Man Thompson, loves him some early season cupcakes. Disagree. When he took over, Cooley found himself with three good “contract games”, with one of them being an away game. Not one of these games is a cupcake. Then, Cooley added a home/away with Notre Dame in the summer. The fact that three of these four teams are in flux, like us, is not Cooley’s fault. As to the rest of the OOC schedule, I think Cooley realized early in the off-season that he wasn’t going to have a full team. He had to plan accordingly and it led to the seven “easy wins”, although after last year’s loss American should never be considered a cupcake. , I agree. As for the hoyaboya "we should go no worse than 10-1 before Big East play," I think is setting up an unrealistic expectation so that when we don't do it, he can criticize Cooley. The 7 games--definitely--I agree we need to easily win those! TCU is almost certainly a top 50 team, likely better. We will be a clear underdog. Could we win? Maybe, but I think we will be a pretty big underdog on this one. As for Rutgers, they may not be as good as last year, but Rutgers has a good chance of being better than us too. Plus, it's at the RAC in New Brunswick on a weekday. Away games are tough no matter the opponent. So, it would not shock me at all (nor should it be shocking) if we lose this game. Obviously, I have not seen our team. But, to me, that looks like 2 losses. We will certainly be a sportsbook odds underdog against TCU no matter what, and Rutgers too. So, that's 9-2. As for Syracuse, yes we can win that one. But Notre Dame is an away game too. Still very winnable, but away games are tough. I am not trying to be pessimistic, I just think expecting a team that was ranked 200+ on KenPom last year to win 3 out of those 4 harder OOC games is just unrealistic. If we win 10 OOC games this year, we will all have a lot of reasons to be happy, as it will mean we are a lot better than we thought. And that'd be a good thing. |
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,353
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Post by calhoya on Oct 12, 2023 17:35:12 GMT -5
I agree with 2003's post with one caveat. Too many folks are looking at Georgetown and making assumptions about this year based upon last year. While that kind of comparison historically had validity, the fact that the Hoyas were a 200+ ranked team on KenPom last year is pretty much irrelevant in an era of free agency when all but 3 players have left and there are 11 new players on the roster, including walk-ons. I am neither an optimist nor a pessimist about this season---until I see them play a few games I have no idea what this team is or what it will become. The goal is for the team to be significantly better in February than they are in November.
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