TC
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Post by TC on Oct 4, 2023 18:03:12 GMT -5
I wish he would stop referencing his time at Providence and how much he loved it and it was home. It comes across as either disingenuous or like he's longing to be back there. Yeah - no. I kind of take it as damage control and trying to soothe some of the really weird angry Providence fans.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 4, 2023 19:43:48 GMT -5
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Oct 4, 2023 20:00:05 GMT -5
Lots of excuses on why we won’t be good right away. It’s easy to build slowly and set expectations low while you take in $6 million. Well done. Dear god, can you imagine Pitino saying it’s going to take time?
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Oct 4, 2023 20:25:03 GMT -5
Lots of excuses on why we won’t be good right away. It’s easy to build slowly and set expectations low while you take in $6 million. Well done. Let’s see how Pitino does. Comparing Gtowns 2-37 conference record the last 2 seasons to the Johnnies 15-24 should probably be where this conversation starts. It should probably end in discussing long term vision - building a culture and a foundation for long-term winning vs a win now because our coach will be retired in less than 5 years mentality. I'm completely understanding to those who say they'd rather have the latter and thus passing on Pitino was an error. I dont necessarily agree, but it seems like a completely valid opinion to me. But the pursing of lips toward the lowering of expectations as the season approaches rings hollow to me. Any CEO worth his salt (and CEO is exactly what a high major CBB head coach is now in many ways) gets announced and speaks in mountaintops, especially when taking over a company in the proverbial gutter. "This company will be great again." "We will make this place the best again in no time!" "The sky is the limit for this company." "I am here to succeed, and I don't expect our shareholders to wait long to see those dividends." And then Q4 is coming to a close and expectation setting for the coming fiscal year is upon us. "Listen I think we are putting together the pieces to have major success. But any good building takes time. And while we hope to see a big Q1, I think setting our sights on Q3 and Q4 goals should be the focus." Pretty standard fare. Ed is a salesman. A marketer. A strategist. With a track record. He is our new CEO. And he's doing everything I'd expect from him thus far, and anybody who paid attention to him at Fairfield or Providence stops. He's got a formula and has earned the benefit of allowing him to employ it imo.
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TC
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Post by TC on Oct 4, 2023 20:52:59 GMT -5
Lots of excuses on why we won’t be good right away. It’s easy to build slowly and set expectations low while you take in $6 million. Well done. Dear god, can you imagine Pitino saying it’s going to take time? A week ago : why doesn't anyone post summaries of these meetings to hoyatalk? 5 gripes about why we didn't hire Rick Pitino later, you know why.
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Oct 4, 2023 21:00:38 GMT -5
So, I listened in and here is a summary. ITo be clear everything following is a paraphrase--often a close paraphrase--but not quotes from Cooley, as this is based on my notes. On College Basketball/NIL: Cooley just got back from Indianapolis. The audio was hard to hear in this section, but it sounded like he's on an NCAA committee, perhaps legistlative commiteee. Cooley expressed that while the NCAA is trying to make things better, with all the regulations, rules, and NIL it's putting good on things that are bad. But basically, until Congress intervenes, everything done will be small. Cooley said that coaches need a more powerful voice with their jobs. On Georgetown and Building The Program: Cooley said that at Georgetown, we need to be thoughtful. We are not building from the ground up but from the roots. It is a seismic change, it’s a different direction, and to reestablish the identity and tradition in a different culture, in a different time. Cooley emphasized he is still mindful for his former players at Providence, and he has much gratitude and appreciation for his time there. When Will We Be Good? Cooley said the narrative is when will we be good? Cooley said somthing like this (it's a paraphrase, but close to a quite): "We'll see, we'll see. I mean, when. We’ll see. We’ll see . . . I can tell you though, our men are very disciplined, our men will defend. The Big East is probably going to have 7 out of 11 teams ranked of which 3 will probably be in the top 7 or 8." On the Transfer Portal: We got beat up very early in the portal side of this based on the last two years, and if we’re being honest, it’s okay. It’s okay. So we attracted the ones who liked us and who we thought fit, but it may be a rough rollercoaster ride until we get what we need to build winning. On Needing A Solid Base Before We Win: I can tell you this, before we win a basketball game, we need to win alignment, we need to win infrastructure, we need to win culture, season ticket sales, marketing, advertising, engagement, community, alumni, there are so many different wins we need to have before we go out there and say we are going to beat such and such. Winning will come as a byproduct of an established culture that’s not going to just give in. And that’s what we are trying to establish right now. We may be bad early, we could be good early, but I wouldn’t expect much until we get aligned and people know who we are as people first, not just as coaches and players. On Learning to Build a Program: Yet, what I learned [referencing his past coaching roles] on that is how to build, and how to build community. When we went to Fairfield, dead last place. Negative overtone. Went to Providence, dead last place, negative overtone. Here at Georgetown, dead last place, negative overtone. So if history serves us well, it’s just a matter of time to answer your “when,” I think. I think our staff is doing an incredible job trying to get people, not that can come to Georgetown, those who fit at Georgetown and who can play for me the head coach. Right, what’s our identity. Okay. What do we stand for. If you’re here at Georgetown for 4 years, we have 100% graduation rate, which I am very, very, proud of because at the end of the day that’s what we are doing. At the end of the day, we want respect our crowd, we want to respect our community, but if we’re being totally honest we want to make sure these men and women graduate. Because 99.6% of them aren’t pros. On His Staff: Cooley said he was thankful for his staff, and said many were with him for a long time. On Chief of Staff Sharon Brunell, he said that he looks for diversity, including gender. He noted she knows what happens on a day-to-day basis at Georgetown, and he thought that was very important. On Opennness/Transparency: In the past, it was needed as far as privacy, not inclusive, back in the day we needed that for our young men. But as times change, society changed, transparency and openness allows for openness for things like this. Allows for people to come and watch practice and allow for open and honest conversation, and without that, I don’t know … What Do You Do With Your Guys? Well, we as a staff, I as a head coach try to show them who we are as people, not as coaches. Where they see you as father, husband, mentor, spending time with them, what’s their why? Where are they trying to go? How are they utilizing Georgetown’s education component? Basketball? For the most part they come here to get to the NBA, what I tell them is use us to try to get to the NBA, don’t not going to class, don’t not listen, be a participant in your education because you’re going to need a job. They all come to our home, and we are still trying to establish our home here. I am 54, 53.5 was in New England. Learning the city, how to do anything here. The traffic here is horrendous, it’s awful. I’ve never taken so many taxis and Ubers in my life, so it’s been a change. We take them out to eat, bowling. We will do a lot, a ton in our community. What Have You Been Surprised About at Georgetown? What surprised me most about Georgetown, that’s a loaded question. I have to think about that a second. That’s a great question. I’d say not so much Georgetown, but the District, or all the DMV schools and colleges, with the talent that’s here in the DMV area, I’m shocked more kids don’t stay home. That’s what I’ll say. I won’t comment on Georgetown because I don’t know it yet. I am more surprised that the schools here do not have a routine of keeping their young men and women. On Whether Cooley Has Plans to Engage Alumni and Former Players? 100%. 100% I’ve tried to reach out to a lot of former players. Our goal is to try to get 5 a week, I’ve just ran out of time. But we have reached out to a lot. I mean a lot. And I think that’s it’s really important to those older, established men that when they come back to the Hilltop to feel like it’s home. And it will take time to build trust because we are definitely different. But one thing I will always respect is Coach Thompson. The reason I am sitting here is because of that man. As a young man, there were 4 coaches in America that looked like me, and he’s probably the one who influenced me the most. On Tradition/The Past: Why do I bring all the past to present? Because I really hope we respect the tradition that has happened here and we’ll try to rebuild that, and I want to overemphasize this is the only place I would leave Providence College for for a variety of reasons, but I think change is good for everyone and it’s really okay. And I definitely want all of you to know how much I miss and loved where I was at, but I’m more excited to see where we go here. On Leadership Style: Cooley essentially says he was born the way he is. If you can inspire and engage and make them feel better by giving them your time, letting them know how important they are, seeing the, the person. If you let fear get in the way you’re never going to get to the mountain top . . . Leadership is hard but that’s just a word, it’s a challenge to make change and a lot of people are afraid of change. Pump your brakes, the plane is going to land. We will land the plane, it may not be smooth but we will get that thing on the ground, and that’s the thing. I was born a leader, I was blessed with a gene that wasn’t afraid to fail. What Can We Do To Support? You’ve seen a lot, you’ve seen a lot of change. When I'm asked that in my 5th or 6th month. We are going to ask for support in a lot of different ways. Season tickets, NIL initiatives, infrastructure things we are trying to do here, it’s not just financial support. Something like this, every person you touch, it may not be sold out, but that will grow. Cooley then said that growth happened when he was at Boston College, Fairfield, and Providence. And it will grow here. 2003 -- really great job at conveying all that info -- thank you! Reading it all reminded me to be patient, think longer term, and believe in the man and the process he and his team is starting and rolling these next years. I was a strong Pitino advocate, I will admit it here again, and it took a short time to be o.k. with EC as our guy. Always respected him and admired what he's done, but I wanted the turnaround to be quicker, and I thought Pitino could get us there faster and better. Now, I am a Cooley guy all the way because my understanding of where "there" is has changed. Like all of you here, I wanted our Hoyas to be relevant and back in the NCAA's as soon as we could make it happen. Get the Hall of Fame coach, bring in some big talent fast, and put Gtown back on the map. I look at what's going on over at St. John's and see the prediction of a top 25 team that should make the NCAAs. That is all well and good, but I'm reminded every week as I follow our team to a new season that I don't want the flashiness and glory without all the pieces that make up a true and authentic college D1, High Major MBB program - the culture of the team and its supporters, a sense of what we're doing with these student-athletes during their time here, and the goal from all involved to create (or recreate) the Georgetown brand. When I hear Cooley talk about bringing in students who want to be here, who fit what we're trying to do, of being sure we're graduating these kids, of respect for fans, of our identity, it makes me feel the same way I felt when Big John explained why he had a deflated basketball on his desk. The vast majority of our players will not go pro, and we have to be guiding them off the courts and playing fields to full lives when they leave the Hilltop. I guess I'm one of the people who see real value in doing these things "the Georgetown way" (even though that has been used in more of a pejorative sense in Hoya Talk). Pitino will do what he does best, and that will be o.k. But I am in to Hoya basketball for the long haul, and I am happy to watch EC do his thing, bring this whole thing to a slow boil, follow the plan, and watch it go for a bunch of years. We'll have some tough moments this coming year, and some of us (me maybe) will see what's going on in Queens and MSG and second guess our choice of coach, but I will be patient, look ahead to the '24 class and what's possible after, and know that better days are coming. Just over a month away. Can't wait.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Oct 4, 2023 21:01:29 GMT -5
Lots of excuses on why we won’t be good right away. It’s easy to build slowly and set expectations low while you take in $6 million. Well done. Let’s see how Pitino does. Comparing Gtowns 2-37 conference record the last 2 seasons to the Johnnies 15-24 should probably be where this conversation starts. It should probably end in discussing long term vision - building a culture and a foundation for long-term winning vs a win now because our coach will be retired in less than 5 years mentality. I'm completely understanding to those who say they'd rather have the latter and thus passing on Pitino was an error. I dont necessarily agree, but it seems like a completely valid opinion to me. But the pursing of lips toward the lowering of expectations as the season approaches rings hollow to me. Any CEO worth his salt (and CEO is exactly what a high major CBB head coach is now in many ways) gets announced and speaks in mountaintops, especially when taking over a company in the proverbial gutter. "This company will be great again." "We will make this place the best again in no time!" "The sky is the limit for this company." "I am here to succeed, and I don't expect our shareholders to wait long to see those dividends." And then Q4 is coming to a close and expectation setting for the coming fiscal year is upon us. "Listen I think we are putting together the pieces to have major success. But any good building takes time. And while we hope to see a big Q1, I think setting our sights on Q3 and Q4 goals should be the focus." Pretty standard fare. Ed is a salesman. A marketer. A strategist. With a track record. He is our new CEO. And he's doing everything I'd expect from him thus far, and anybody who paid attention to him at Fairfield or Providence stops. He's got a formula and has earned the benefit of allowing him to employ it imo. I hear what you’re saying. I just prefer my CEO’s to be confident & inspiring. I would have agreed with your thinking 5-10 years ago, but the basketball landscape has changed. The world is moving much more quickly. Winning sometime down the road is uninspiring. Between NIL and transfers there are no delays. I’m cautiously optimistic though.
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Post by sbgorms on Oct 4, 2023 23:01:50 GMT -5
So first off, apologies for the length of this post. I think it’s been more than a decade since I posted to Hoyatalk (probably coincides with the last Georgetown NCAA game I saw in person against FGCU…the PTSD still runs deep). I was one of the (small) crew in attendance this morning and can provide my perspective on the dynamic with Coach Cooley and the event. Hoyasaxa2003 did a much better job than I could have with the quotes and substance, and from my mediocre at best memory, he was spot on.
The audience in the room was max 25 people — I’ll admit, I was shocked by the size of the crowd, or lack thereof (and if I was Ed, I would have been shocked and annoyed X10, but I also have zero perspective on these things), even recognizing that it was mid-morning on a Wednesday in October. It was heavy on retirees to the degree that as an ‘02 I was called out as a youngin’ when checking in. I was in town for a Georgetown recruiting event for my company so the timing worked out perfectly for me and I caught an early flight up from New York to catch his talk and the TAC tour. And for context, my perspective and degree of interest comes from someone who lives less than 20 blocks from MSG but hasn’t bothered to go to Georgetown-St. John’s games or the BET the past couple years because I was so disgusted by the team — not the players per se, but rather just the attitude and dynamic surrounding the program and its leadership combined with the performance / lack thereof. I used to live and die with Georgetown basketball (my girlfriend might refuse to sit next to me at Hoya games after my antics at the Georgetown-Duke game a few months before Covid), but between life and the state of our program, that had disappeared.
I’m also a hyper-realist, but it is also possible that Georgetown basketball is one of the few aspects of my life where I am a bit of a pollyana because I was inspired enough by Coach Cooley and the attitude and mentality that he brought to the program that I bought season tickets despite the fact that I live a stone’s throw from MSG and will likely only make a handful of games in DC. That said, today definitely made me feel better about that decision.
I very much appreciated the time with and candor from Coach Cooley, and my takeaways and perspective on the same things he said might differ from others (and pardon my armchair psychological quarterbacking, I’m probably off base on some things, but he is a pretty straight shooter despite being a helluva salesman): 1. Ed has an unequivocal presence and enthusiasm that permeates everything he says and does, and it’s also clearly a long game for him. He is here to win, but also isn’t going to set up unreasonable expectations for himself, and there is literally zero for him to gain in both the short and long term from him doing so 2. He is self-aware both of who he is and the position he is in (both literally and metaphorically), and where he wants to go — he might be competitive AF, but he’s not going to set unrealistic expectations for his first season that could create negative vibes if not achieved. He is not slick Rick (who I freely admit was my first choice for this job, but for whatever reason no one called to ask me), but I bet if he had the roster Pitino has today, he wouldn’t be sandbagging near-term expectations like he is to a certain degree 3. That said, Ed Cooley did not come to Georgetown to lose. Yes, he’s getting a massive paycheck (which I don’t begrudge him at all), but he left a city and school that was his life and home — it would have been easy to stay there, ride out the next decade-plus as the hometown hero, and ride off into the sunset as a Providence icon. He burned some of that to the ground and took a leap of faith — straying from the friendly confines of New England for basically the first time in his life, taking on a BIG job, a BIG rebuild, a BIG risk…because he 100% thinks he can win BIG 4. He will respect Georgetown’s past, has a fundamental admiration of Coach Thompson to his very core (which I admire), but he will also do things his own way. He talked about community multiple times, and recognizes all the different contingencies that make that up — he has clearly been doing work with all of them, and its also clear he has been going 100 miles an hour since he showed up. He describes his first steps as building the foundation (and he recognized some losses so far like the transfer portal, etc.), and I think we can all agree that if this team and program is firing on all cylinders on and off the court 3-4 years from now, no one will give a damn what he did or didn’t do before his first game was coached (but I also get that is all we have to talk about right now…) 5. Coach is clearly detail-oriented. At the end of the day, we’ll all judge him based on results, but looking back it will be the long-term results — in how he talks about some of the little things you can see how he envisions all those little details done right adding up to big long-term wins 6. Someone called him a CEO — that is spot on, and that is his presence. Handing credit out all around, focused on his staff getting things done in their respective lanes to set up success, targeting different constituencies around the program, and being the guy that owns everything. That’s a CEO, and hopefully the buck that stops with him is a winning hand
Some additional thoughts: I met with someone at MSB this afternoon, and he talked about how everyone on campus seems to already have an Ed Cooley story. Omnipresent on freshman move-in day; high-fiving people going into the bookstore; meals at Tombs (side note — took one of my incoming analysts to dinner at Tombs this evening, and what used to be Wednesday 80s night was clearly not a thing anymore, sad face emoji); random sightings across campus. The man clearly knows how to market, but he’s also all-in on community (which he hit on multiple times as noted above), and how that is a key part of the flywheel of success (my interpretation of his words).
To someone’s point, yes he talked about Providence a lot, but it is his benchmark — its his hometown, his main coaching job where he earned his stripes, and where he saw big time success (feel free to debate his tournament record) for the first time. He hasn’t coached a single damn game at Georgetown, so its his frame of reference — call me crazy, but I’m betting 2 years from now you hear roughly 1/20th the Providence references that you hear today NIL is a weird elephant in the room, and I admittedly don’t know what to make of it (even as a cynical finance guy). After Ed left, there were a number of questions around NIL that Dan (think Dan O’Neil, I admittedly can’t name a single person in the Georgetown administration other than DeGioia and Red), who had thoughtful and informed answers. But I also walked away thinking that 5 years from now the NIL probably looks very different than it does today — whether NCAA regulation that avoids antitrust scrutiny, federal law that provides some order to the chaos (haha, i just made myself laugh), or some market-driven pivot that shifts the structure. That said, I’m all for it for student-athletes and I hope it turns into a more rational structure that continues to benefit players while not being what seems to be the bizzaro Wild West. Also, as a side note, Dan was a great MC and host — super likable guy and good balance of enthusiasm, knowledge, competence and practical realism, and it was definitely cool seeing the TAC. A+ facility and environment, full stop
TLDR…glad I attended, Coach Cooley seems focused on the right things in the short term and long term, hopefully that pays off. And in ~18 months I think we’ll have some objective benchmarks to judge him by, until then I plan to enjoy the ride and see what he builds on the court and in the community.
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xpathoya
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Post by xpathoya on Oct 5, 2023 4:11:02 GMT -5
So first off, apologies for the length of this post. I think it’s been more than a decade since I posted to Hoyatalk (probably coincides with the last Georgetown NCAA game I saw in person against FGCU…the PTSD still runs deep). I was one of the (small) crew in attendance this morning and can provide my perspective on the dynamic with Coach Cooley and the event. Hoyasaxa2003 did a much better job than I could have with the quotes and substance, and from my mediocre at best memory, he was spot on. The audience in the room was max 25 people — I’ll admit, I was shocked by the size of the crowd, or lack thereof (and if I was Ed, I would have been shocked and annoyed X10, but I also have zero perspective on these things), even recognizing that it was mid-morning on a Wednesday in October. It was heavy on retirees to the degree that as an ‘02 I was called out as a youngin’ when checking in. I was in town for a Georgetown recruiting event for my company so the timing worked out perfectly for me and I caught an early flight up from New York to catch his talk and the TAC tour. And for context, my perspective and degree of interest comes from someone who lives less than 20 blocks from MSG but hasn’t bothered to go to Georgetown-St. John’s games or the BET the past couple years because I was so disgusted by the team — not the players per se, but rather just the attitude and dynamic surrounding the program and its leadership combined with the performance / lack thereof. I used to live and die with Georgetown basketball (my girlfriend might refuse to sit next to me at Hoya games after my antics at the Georgetown-Duke game a few months before Covid), but between life and the state of our program, that had disappeared. I’m also a hyper-realist, but it is also possible that Georgetown basketball is one of the few aspects of my life where I am a bit of a pollyana because I was inspired enough by Coach Cooley and the attitude and mentality that he brought to the program that I bought season tickets despite the fact that I live a stone’s throw from MSG and will likely only make a handful of games in DC. That said, today definitely made me feel better about that decision. I very much appreciated the time with and candor from Coach Cooley, and my takeaways and perspective on the same things he said might differ from others (and pardon my armchair psychological quarterbacking, I’m probably off base on some things, but he is a pretty straight shooter despite being a helluva salesman): 1. Ed has an unequivocal presence and enthusiasm that permeates everything he says and does, and it’s also clearly a long game for him. He is here to win, but also isn’t going to set up unreasonable expectations for himself, and there is literally zero for him to gain in both the short and long term from him doing so 2. He is self-aware both of who he is and the position he is in (both literally and metaphorically), and where he wants to go — he might be competitive AF, but he’s not going to set unrealistic expectations for his first season that could create negative vibes if not achieved. He is not slick Rick (who I freely admit was my first choice for this job, but for whatever reason no one called to ask me), but I bet if he had the roster Pitino has today, he wouldn’t be sandbagging near-term expectations like he is to a certain degree 3. That said, Ed Cooley did not come to Georgetown to lose. Yes, he’s getting a massive paycheck (which I don’t begrudge him at all), but he left a city and school that was his life and home — it would have been easy to stay there, ride out the next decade-plus as the hometown hero, and ride off into the sunset as a Providence icon. He burned some of that to the ground and took a leap of faith — straying from the friendly confines of New England for basically the first time in his life, taking on a BIG job, a BIG rebuild, a BIG risk…because he 100% thinks he can win BIG 4. He will respect Georgetown’s past, has a fundamental admiration of Coach Thompson to his very core (which I admire), but he will also do things his own way. He talked about community multiple times, and recognizes all the different contingencies that make that up — he has clearly been doing work with all of them, and its also clear he has been going 100 miles an hour since he showed up. He describes his first steps as building the foundation (and he recognized some losses so far like the transfer portal, etc.), and I think we can all agree that if this team and program is firing on all cylinders on and off the court 3-4 years from now, no one will give a damn what he did or didn’t do before his first game was coached (but I also get that is all we have to talk about right now…) 5. Coach is clearly detail-oriented. At the end of the day, we’ll all judge him based on results, but looking back it will be the long-term results — in how he talks about some of the little things you can see how he envisions all those little details done right adding up to big long-term wins 6. Someone called him a CEO — that is spot on, and that is his presence. Handing credit out all around, focused on his staff getting things done in their respective lanes to set up success, targeting different constituencies around the program, and being the guy that owns everything. That’s a CEO, and hopefully the buck that stops with him is a winning hand Some additional thoughts: I met with someone at MSB this afternoon, and he talked about how everyone on campus seems to already have an Ed Cooley story. Omnipresent on freshman move-in day; high-fiving people going into the bookstore; meals at Tombs (side note — took one of my incoming analysts to dinner at Tombs this evening, and what used to be Wednesday 80s night was clearly not a thing anymore, sad face emoji); random sightings across campus. The man clearly knows how to market, but he’s also all-in on community (which he hit on multiple times as noted above), and how that is a key part of the flywheel of success (my interpretation of his words). To someone’s point, yes he talked about Providence a lot, but it is his benchmark — its his hometown, his main coaching job where he earned his stripes, and where he saw big time success (feel free to debate his tournament record) for the first time. He hasn’t coached a single damn game at Georgetown, so its his frame of reference — call me crazy, but I’m betting 2 years from now you hear roughly 1/20th the Providence references that you hear today NIL is a weird elephant in the room, and I admittedly don’t know what to make of it (even as a cynical finance guy). After Ed left, there were a number of questions around NIL that Dan (think Dan O’Neil, I admittedly can’t name a single person in the Georgetown administration other than DeGioia and Red), who had thoughtful and informed answers. But I also walked away thinking that 5 years from now the NIL probably looks very different than it does today — whether NCAA regulation that avoids antitrust scrutiny, federal law that provides some order to the chaos (haha, i just made myself laugh), or some market-driven pivot that shifts the structure. That said, I’m all for it for student-athletes and I hope it turns into a more rational structure that continues to benefit players while not being what seems to be the bizzaro Wild West. Also, as a side note, Dan was a great MC and host — super likable guy and good balance of enthusiasm, knowledge, competence and practical realism, and it was definitely cool seeing the TAC. A+ facility and environment, full stop TLDR…glad I attended, Coach Cooley seems focused on the right things in the short term and long term, hopefully that pays off. And in ~18 months I think we’ll have some objective benchmarks to judge him by, until then I plan to enjoy the ride and see what he builds on the court and in the community. But muh expectashinz.. The bar is so low that I don't get a sense of urgency or pressure. I agree that the bar is really low and he doesn't seem to exude much urgency with his comments. As I posted earlier, the expectation bar is so low right now Lots of excuses on why we won’t be good right away. It’s easy to build slowly and set expectations low while you take in $6 million.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 5, 2023 5:56:38 GMT -5
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TC
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Post by TC on Oct 5, 2023 5:57:05 GMT -5
I hear what you’re saying. I just prefer my CEO’s to be confident & inspiring. Why not just write "I've never actually bothered to listen to Ed Cooley speak", it's shorter and more concise.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Oct 5, 2023 7:03:58 GMT -5
Lots of excuses on why we won’t be good right away. It’s easy to build slowly and set expectations low while you take in $6 million. Well done. Dear god, can you imagine Pitino saying it’s going to take time? Agree it's very hard to hear words suggesting that this rebuild will be slow or reading about efforts to lower expectations for this season, particularly when you are an older alum and when one of the coaching alternatives up the coast has seemingly turned around a St. Johns program in a few months. Could Pitino have done better--it seems so, but no one beats the clock and it is not a question of if but rather when he slows down, loses some intensity or is no longer able to sustain the effort required to maintain a high level program. Let's see how that plays out this year. It is true that in today's environment quick turnarounds are possible. This year's team fell short in some recruiting battles and I have serious concerns about the composition. But I cannot imagine how Cooley could recruit many quality transfer players with just a single year of eligibility left to come play in a program that has embarrassed itself for a couple of years on the court in front of an empty arena and with an Administration that was seemingly unconcerned about the lack of success. What I am looking forward to seeing is how these kids compare in February to what they will be in November. That is always an indicator of coaching ability, barring injuries. If there is notable improvement it will be worth waiting a year.
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jackofjoy
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Post by jackofjoy on Oct 5, 2023 7:41:18 GMT -5
It will be good to start playing games. And to beat St. John’s.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 5, 2023 9:41:25 GMT -5
Thanks for the post. Recommended reading. Two points from your message really hit home: The audience in the room was max 25 people — I’ll admit, I was shocked by the size of the crowd, or lack thereof (and if I was Ed, I would have been shocked and annoyed X10, but I also have zero perspective on these things), even recognizing that it was mid-morning on a Wednesday in October. It was heavy on retirees to the degree that as an ‘02 I was called out as a youngin’ when checking in. I was in town for a Georgetown recruiting event for my company so the timing worked out perfectly for me and I caught an early flight up from New York to catch his talk and the TAC tour. And for context, my perspective and degree of interest comes from someone who lives less than 20 blocks from MSG but hasn’t bothered to go to Georgetown-St. John’s games or the BET the past couple years because I was so disgusted by the team — not the players per se, but rather just the attitude and dynamic surrounding the program and its leadership combined with the performance / lack thereof. I used to live and die with Georgetown basketball (my girlfriend might refuse to sit next to me at Hoya games after my antics at the Georgetown-Duke game a few months before Covid), but between life and the state of our program, that had disappeared. In a moment of candor, even Ed Colley might admit that he was shocked when he looked behind the curtain at McDonough and saw the lack of broad based support remaining for men's basketball at Georgetown. We are outliers here by choice, but to so many alumni and DC fans, it doesn't matter, at least not like it used to. There was a time when John Thompson needed the fans and the Hoop Club to build up the program and he made that clear...until one day, he didn't. The 1500 or so Hoop Club members in the 1980s were a force, but are there 1500 active today? How many people in your class are active donors? The Hoop Club rolls seem to have peaked before the Class of 1982, and certainly very few after 1992 or so. Inasmuch as Georgetown will give basketball what it wants, giving isn't a priority. People have moved on and they're not coming back, but as long as GU allocates as much as it does to basketball, there will be little serious effort made to fundraise and friend-raise for the sport as aggressively as it once did, or as other schools do. 2. He is self-aware both of who he is and the position he is in (both literally and metaphorically), and where he wants to go — he might be competitive AF, but he’s not going to set unrealistic expectations for his first season that could create negative vibes if not achieved. He is not slick Rick (who I freely admit was my first choice for this job, but for whatever reason no one called to ask me), but I bet if he had the roster Pitino has today, he wouldn’t be sandbagging near-term expectations like he is to a certain degree... Lots of people favored Pitino for the experience, but he appeared on the table with three strikes against him: 1) his age; 2) his visible failings in the NCAA compliance community and 3) he didn't fit the mold of what Georgetown is hiring in executive-level searches over the past five years. It would have been as likely as the women's basketball team hiring Kim Mulkey as their new coach. How would that have been received? Pitito to St. John's will be a shooting star for two or three years but he will leave that program in ruins when all is said and done. Ed's old boss, the Rev. Brian Shanley OP, was hired by St. John's from PC to arrest a 30 year institutional decline at that school and basketball is a driver of admissions and interest at St. John's that it will never be at Georgetown. How do you address bringing down an 85% admit rate and increase a 4% alumni giving rate? Basketball. Georgetown doesn't have that pressure and neither does Cooley. At 53, he can play the long game, and Georgetown is all about the long game.
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guru
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Post by guru on Oct 5, 2023 10:43:51 GMT -5
I hear what you’re saying. I just prefer my CEO’s to be confident & inspiring. Why not just write "I've never actually bothered to listen to Ed Cooley speak", it's shorter and more concise. we are all rooting for Cooley to succeed, but the knee-jerk defensiveness on the part of so many here is getting tiresome. I think it's fine to voice the opinion that the run-up to this first season has been less than inspiring. Not sure why the same posters feel the need to jump in to try to stifle any hint of criticism over and over again - especially when these are the same posters who were tirelessly, unrelentingly negative the past 5 seasons.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Oct 5, 2023 11:02:25 GMT -5
Why not just write "I've never actually bothered to listen to Ed Cooley speak", it's shorter and more concise. we are all rooting for Cooley to succeed, but the knee-jerk defensiveness on the part of so many here is getting tiresome. I think it's fine to voice the opinion that the run-up to this first season has been less than inspiring. Not sure why the same posters feel the need to jump in to try to stifle any hint of criticism over and over again - especially when these are the same posters who were tirelessly, unrelentingly negative the past 5 seasons. I’ve been watching GU basketball for 40 years now. I just call it as I see it. Some posters just love to jump on folks who may have a different opinion. I guess it’s just the nature of message boards.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Oct 5, 2023 12:46:45 GMT -5
On his comment about DC-area recruits, Cooley hasn't really walked the talk since becoming coach of the Hoyas. Specifically, these are the players he has given scholarships to:
Dontrez Styles (Kinston, NC) Rowan Brumbaugh (Washington, DC) Jayden Epps (Norfolk, VA) Drew Fielder (Boise, ID) Supreme Cook (East Orange, NJ) Ismael Massoud (East Harlem, NY) Kayvaun Mulready (Worcester, MA) Thomas Sorber (Trenton, NJ) Caleb Williams (Washington, DC)
For those counting, only 3 of his 9 recruits to date are from the DMV, with one of those being Epps from Norfolk, VA - which is a 3.5 hour drive to DC.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Oct 5, 2023 13:05:13 GMT -5
On his comment about DC-area recruits, Cooley hasn't really walked the talk since becoming coach of the Hoyas. Specifically, these are the players he has given scholarships to: Dontrez Styles (Kinston, NC) Rowan Brumbaugh (Washington, DC) Jayden Epps (Norfolk, VA) Drew Fielder (Boise, ID) Supreme Cook (East Orange, NJ) Ismael Massoud (East Harlem, NY) Kayvaun Mulready (Worcester, MA) Thomas Sorber (Trenton, NJ) Caleb Williams (Washington, DC) For those counting, only 3 of his 9 recruits to date are from the DMV, with one of those being Epps from Norfolk, VA - which is a 3.5 hour drive to DC. I can't argue with facts on this year's roster. But I think you're leaving out key context that Cooley has been making many appearances at local practices, speaking events, inviting local coaches to watch practice, making visits to both committed recruits and other local recruits in a public manner, and publicly highlighting the importance of local recruiting. Time will tell on follow through or success but basing any perception on simply the makeup of this year's roster and next year's recruits seems imprudent.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Oct 5, 2023 13:39:49 GMT -5
Great summary. Ed is a good politician. I think it's wise for him to tamper expectations right now. I thought he was being incredibly candid when he said they were rebuilding from the roots. The brand is in trouble and he's not sugarcoating it. I wish he would stop referencing his time at Providence and how much he loved it and it was home. It comes across as either disingenuous or like he's longing to be back there. It's the truth. To use Cooley's words, the "infrastructure" behind the program was terrible before his arrival AND on top of that we were horrible and only won 2 Big East games over two years. From a transfer portal/recruiting standpoint, that does not make us desirable. I realize people say you can turnaround a program really fast--and it does happen--but in most instances those programs have better infrastructures than those that existed at Georgetown. I know some people want everything NOW and think doing everything that needs to be done should happen immediately, but that's just not realistic. You just listened to a new coach tell the HHC that the infrastructure around the program was terrible and cost them recruits but I'm unrealistic for wanting those folks who are still in their positions to change how they go about their jobs within a few months of a new staff? I believe there's a difference between turning around the "culture &/or attitude/behavior" in a program quickly and turning around a program in terms of wins & losses quickly. The culture change is what I'm speaking to. A giant part of the terrible infrastructure that Coach Cooley is referring to is the apathetic fan base which became that way after decades of feeling like afterthoughts by the leaders of the program some of whom are still in charge btw. The same thoughts can be applied to media relationships as well. Hard for me to believe folks like Reed or JDG can't just choose to do better culture & attitude-wise right now, to demand more from the teams Coach Cooley mentioned getting wins from are needed to build a solid base for actual wins. As I've stated many times before this program was just as bad off the court as they were on it so they need the seismic change Coach Cooley spoke of as well.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Oct 5, 2023 14:37:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the post. Recommended reading. Two points from your message really hit home: Pitito to St. John's will be a shooting star for two or three years but he will leave that program in ruins when all is said and done. Ed's old boss, the Rev. Brian Shanley OP, was hired by St. John's from PC to arrest a 30 year institutional decline at that school and basketball is a driver of admissions and interest at St. John's that it will never be at Georgetown. How do you address bringing down an 85% admit rate and increase a 4% alumni giving rate? Basketball. Georgetown doesn't have that pressure and neither does Cooley. At 53, he can play the long game, and Georgetown is all about the long game. So on the age stuff, Cooley is definitely younger than Pitino - almost all coaches are outside of Cliff Ellis - but Ed will be the second oldest Georgetown coach - at least in modern history - when he makes his Hoyas debut in November. At 54, Cooley is just a year younger than Patrick Ewing was back on 11/12/2017 against Jacksonville. I'm not sure how long the game is here. Age on Hoyas coaching debut John Thompson Jr 31 Craig Esherick 42 JT3 38 Ewing 55 Cooley 54
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