Rebuilding The Brand

[hoya18]

Mr Moderator, how do we begin a discussion as to how to recreate the glory of the Georgetown Basketball that focuses on what we have not done and what we could do beyond the assumption that hiring a new coach will change all. It is a discussion that attempts to understand the vision of Georgetown leadership. Without that these blog discussions are pointless.

[hoyajmw]

I don't want to see a thoughtful, serious question die aborning, so let me ask: what is YOUR vision, HOya18, of "the Brand" to be rebuilt and of "Georgetown leadership" you would want in place? If your name is indicative of your class year (always a good thing to do), your ideas may be very different than others of us, given what you were in school for and/or may have just heard about from folks a, uh, "few" years older.

To me, winning is about 90% of "the brand" and the vision of a Georgetown leadership I'd want are leaders committed to that (which results from and is shown by making the right new coach hire), but I get that academics, reputation for toughness (to a lesser extent), close connection between players and the University/image thereof may be part of a "brand" which do not necessarily accompany winning. Nor does the classic "Hoya Paranoia" (secretiveness, lack of public engagement, distrust of the media -- had its place at the time and helped protect the players/build team cohesivenss) and I for one can do without the rebirth of any of that in this new day (and feel they may cut against the "winning" part anymore).

I don't think anyone on here is willing to do the Joe Hardy/Damn Yankees thing and sell the University's soul to the devil in exchange for winning, but the issue of what does "success" REALLY mean -- what do we want the "Georgetown basketball to stand for? -- going forward is an interesting question.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

1) Win (not necessarily the whole thing, but be competing in conference each year)
2) Engage. This current admin (RONNY) have killed any good will. We need to get our arms around alumni players & fans and improve interactions between these groups
3) Stand for something. We need to find our on court identity to help forge closer community relationships. Get out in the city, engage with locals, make people proud to rep Gtown
4) Graduate. In the current environment, I understand marquee players going to the league early. What I don't understand are borderline players leave after a year because they aren't valuing what they were brought in to do. Very few players are making a sustained living playing basketball. We need to be creative in selling the GTown alumni network & a degree as a valued asset again beyond just NIL

All of this is attainable with some vision. I just fear we lack it and I don't see a bunch of 50 and 60 year olds leading the charge.

[FromTheBeginning]

Unfortunately the desire for an in depth analysis of the full worth of a college education is beaten out of most of today’s top players while they are pandered to in the AAU system. Very few think they have no chance at a pro career and when told so move there game to a team / situation where they hear what they want to hear.

[hoyasaxaphone]

Feb 7, 2023 8:26:23 GMT -5 hoyajmw said:

I don't want to see a thoughtful, serious question die aborning, so let me ask: what is YOUR vision, HOya18, of "the Brand" to be rebuilt and of "Georgetown leadership" you would want in place? If your name is indicative of your class year (always a good thing to do), your ideas may be very different than others of us, given what you were in school for and/or may have just heard about from folks a, uh, "few" years older.

To me, winning is about 90% of "the brand" and the vision of a Georgetown leadership I'd want are leaders committed to that (which results from and is shown by making the right new coach hire), but I get that academics, reputation for toughness (to a lesser extent), close connection between players and the University/image thereof may be part of a "brand" which do not necessarily accompany winning. Nor does the classic "Hoya Paranoia" (secretiveness, lack of public engagement, distrust of the media -- had its place at the time and helped protect the players/build team cohesivenss) and I for one can do without the rebirth of any of that in this new day (and feel they may cut against the "winning" part anymore).

I don't think anyone on here is willing to do the Joe Hardy/Damn Yankees thing and sell the University's soul to the devil in exchange for winning, but the issue of what does "success" REALLY mean -- what do we want the "Georgetown basketball to stand for? -- going forward is an interesting question.

While I agree that "no-one on here is willing to sell the University's soul to the devil in exchange for winning", isn't that exactly what Ewing has done in a desperate attempt to hold on to his job? With tacit University support? Players in good academic standing are moved out to clear the path for Nickelberry's army, none of whom seem to have any interest in the University, the program or graduating while they pursue their selfish goals (aided and abetted by Ewing). And the sad thing is...........it has not resulted in winning. The Brand going forward needs to be about winning the right way - recruiting good kids, developing them, having a reputation as a smart team with players with high basketball IQs, and setting those players up to graduate and get on with their lives on and off the court. I do not think that we should be prisoners of the past - that is the JT Jr. Georgetown Brand. The world has moved on, and even that brand had some issues though it certainly differentiated Georgetown at the time.

[hoyajmw]

Feb 7, 2023 13:06:11 GMT -5 hoyasaxaphone said:

Feb 7, 2023 8:26:23 GMT -5 hoyajmw said:

….

I don't think anyone on here is willing to do the Joe Hardy/Damn Yankees thing and sell the University's soul to the devil in exchange for winning, but the issue of what does "success" REALLY mean -- what do we want the "Georgetown basketball to stand for? -- going forward is an interesting question.

While I agree that "no-one on here is willing to sell the University's soul to the devil in exchange for winning", isn't that exactly what Ewing has done in a desperate attempt to hold on to his job? With tacit University support? Players in good academic standing are moved out to clear the path for Nickelberry's army, none of whom seem to have any interest in the University, the program or graduating while they pursue their selfish goals (aided and abetted by Ewing). And the sad thing is...........it has not resulted in winning. The Brand going forward needs to be about winning the right way - recruiting good kids, developing them, having a reputation as a smart team with players with high basketball IQs, and setting those players up to graduate and get on with their lives on and off the court. I do not think that we should be prisoners of the past - that is the JT Jr. Georgetown Brand. The world has moved on, and even that brand had some issues though it certainly differentiated Georgetown at the time.

Very much agree all around. Wrong way wrong results obviously the worst of the four alternatives…

[CTHoya08]

How many college teams really have "brands" today?

I'd like to see us get back to winning, to graduate our players, and not to cheat. (Cheating--and getting caught doing it--would be especially embarrassing now that NIL has made pay-to-play de facto legal.) I wouldn't have any objection to having a "brand" that somehow transcends that, but I don't think we're ever going to see a college basketball team--any college basketball team--approaching anything like the cultural impact that the Hoyas had back in the 1980s.

[nbhoya]

Embrace our history while not dwelling on it. We’ve spent too much time and energy trying to “recreate” the 80s/90s and not enough on evolving the brand.

Move away from the Thompson-centric behavior and create a new age Villanova with more prestige and resources.

[Elvado]

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

How about one season devoid of historic futility, public humiliation and massive roster turnover?

After that we can take the next step and so on…

[b52legend]

This is simple:

- Win basketball games. This is what it is all about. Everything else that is beneficial to the school, students, alumni and the “brand” flows from winning.

- Do right by the PLAYERS. This doesn’t mean being soft. The coach is in control, but the coach’s sole focus should be winning (see above) and making his players successful (professional basketball, NIL, academics). We should develop players so they get better and we should treat them fairly. No promises of playing time. No selfish basketball. Build a culture of competition where players expect to compete against the best for playing time and develop into pro ready prospects. Lastly, recruit players who want to win above all else.

[hsaxon]

Feb 7, 2023 20:27:36 GMT -5 b52legend said:

This is simple:

- Win basketball games. This is what it is all about. Everything else that is beneficial to the school, students, alumni and the “brand” flows from winning.

- Do right by the PLAYERS. This doesn’t mean being soft. The coach is in control, but the coach’s sole focus should be winning (see above) and making his players successful (professional basketball, NIL, academics). We should develop players so they get better and we should treat them fairly. No promises of playing time. No selfish basketball. Build a culture of competition where players expect to compete against the best for playing time and develop into pro ready prospects. Lastly, recruit players who want to win above all else.

Win games - and have a winning and clean program.  Look at Duke under Coack K - you think he was a nice guy all the time?

And the above is correct - no promises; competition; and recruit players who want to win - yes, the desire to win.

[Bigs"R"Us]

We need a coach that can get us to the top of the league, not just the middle of the pack.

[DFW HOYA]

A distinct athletic brand is not impossible. Look no further than Georgetown men's soccer.

Brian Wiese did not come up from a family legacy or the local DC area. He has a bachelor's degree in engineering and was an assistant coach at Notre Dame. He built was what a "good" soccer program into a top-tier program, one which can recruit four year players as well as grad transfers and legitimate pro candidates. He has made the team accessible to students, so much so that when the students "Surround Shaw" for big games, it's a distinctive home field advantage and not something put upon them by the school. His players practice just as long and as hard as basketball does, but without the wall that keeps its players away from the totality of student life. (And no, I'm not saying this because Elvado just offered a post above.)

"In his tenure at Georgetown, Wiese has coached 32 players who have signed with an MLS squad, a Hermann Trophy winner, three Hermann Trophy finalists, six Hermann Trophy semifinalists, 19 All-Americans, 19 BIG EAST Players of the Year and 74 All-BIG EAST honorees as well as both the College Cup Most Outstanding Offensive and Defensive Player. On the academic side, he has had two Academic All-Americans, three Academic All-Region honoree, three BIG EAST Scholar-Athletes and one Elite89 Award winner. The team has seen unprecedented success under Wiese with 10 NCAA Tournament berths in an 11-year span. The squad has also won six BIG EAST regular season championships, five BIG EAST Championships and been ranked among the top 25 in 12 seasons including stints at No. 1 in the nation."

guhoyas.com/sports/mens-soccer/roster/coaches/brian-wiese/1865

Is soccer different than basketball? Of course, but Georgetown now has a distinctive brand in that sport because of what Wiese is trying to do, not what he is trying to copy from what was here before.

[prhoya]

Feb 7, 2023 22:09:23 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

A distinct athletic brand is not impossible. Look no further than Georgetown men's soccer.

Brian Wiese did not come up from a family legacy or the local DC area. He has a bachelor's degree in engineering and was an assistant coach at Notre Dame. He built was what a "good" soccer program into a top-tier program, one which can recruit four year players as well as grad transfers and legitimate pro candidates. He has made the team accessible to students, so much so that when the students "Surround Shaw" for big games, it's a distinctive home field advantage and not something put upon them by the school. His players practice just as long and as hard as basketball does, but without the wall that keeps its players away from the totality of student life. (And no, I'm not saying this because Elvado just offered a post above.)

"In his tenure at Georgetown, Wiese has coached 32 players who have signed with an MLS squad, a Hermann Trophy winner, three Hermann Trophy finalists, six Hermann Trophy semifinalists, 19 All-Americans, 19 BIG EAST Players of the Year and 74 All-BIG EAST honorees as well as both the College Cup Most Outstanding Offensive and Defensive Player. On the academic side, he has had two Academic All-Americans, three Academic All-Region honoree, three BIG EAST Scholar-Athletes and one Elite89 Award winner. The team has seen unprecedented success under Wiese with 10 NCAA Tournament berths in an 11-year span. The squad has also won six BIG EAST regular season championships, five BIG EAST Championships and been ranked among the top 25 in 12 seasons including stints at No. 1 in the nation."

guhoyas.com/sports/mens-soccer/roster/coaches/brian-wiese/1865

Is soccer different than basketball? Of course, but Georgetown now has a distinctive brand in that sport because of what Wiese is trying to do, not what he is trying to copy from what was here before.

Soccer school, baby!!! Just in time for the World Cup 2026!!

[Elvado]

Feb 7, 2023 22:09:23 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

A distinct athletic brand is not impossible. Look no further than Georgetown men's soccer.

Brian Wiese did not come up from a family legacy or the local DC area. He has a bachelor's degree in engineering and was an assistant coach at Notre Dame. He built was what a "good" soccer program into a top-tier program, one which can recruit four year players as well as grad transfers and legitimate pro candidates. He has made the team accessible to students, so much so that when the students "Surround Shaw" for big games, it's a distinctive home field advantage and not something put upon them by the school. His players practice just as long and as hard as basketball does, but without the wall that keeps its players away from the totality of student life. (And no, I'm not saying this because Elvado just offered a post above.)

"In his tenure at Georgetown, Wiese has coached 32 players who have signed with an MLS squad, a Hermann Trophy winner, three Hermann Trophy finalists, six Hermann Trophy semifinalists, 19 All-Americans, 19 BIG EAST Players of the Year and 74 All-BIG EAST honorees as well as both the College Cup Most Outstanding Offensive and Defensive Player. On the academic side, he has had two Academic All-Americans, three Academic All-Region honoree, three BIG EAST Scholar-Athletes and one Elite89 Award winner. The team has seen unprecedented success under Wiese with 10 NCAA Tournament berths in an 11-year span. The squad has also won six BIG EAST regular season championships, five BIG EAST Championships and been ranked among the top 25 in 12 seasons including stints at No. 1 in the nation."

guhoyas.com/sports/mens-soccer/roster/coaches/brian-wiese/1865

Is soccer different than basketball? Of course, but Georgetown now has a distinctive brand in that sport because of what Wiese is trying to do, not what he is trying to copy from what was here before.

Spot on!

The only thing I would add is that the soccer program maintains regular contact with fans, alumni and former players via weekly email blasts, alumni get togethers and other events.

The folks who support the program are valued, not tolerated.

[hoyajmw]

Feb 8, 2023 4:51:01 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Feb 7, 2023 22:09:23 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Elvaso coined this in seconding longer, insightful comparison by DFW above, to give credit where due:

The folks who support the program are valued, not tolerated.

If ever the days of sayings on the back of “We are Georgetown” t shirts return after a regime change, I nominate this for the saying on the back of the first shirt…

Attachments:

[Bigs"R"Us]

I feel like basketball fans have mostly been tolerated for the past 40 years. It’s easier to take when the team is ranked and regularly playing in the postseason.

[coach98]

Feb 7, 2023 22:31:05 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Feb 7, 2023 22:09:23 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

A distinct athletic brand is not impossible. Look no further than Georgetown men's soccer.

Brian Wiese did not come up from a family legacy or the local DC area. He has a bachelor's degree in engineering and was an assistant coach at Notre Dame. He built was what a "good" soccer program into a top-tier program, one which can recruit four year players as well as grad transfers and legitimate pro candidates. He has made the team accessible to students, so much so that when the students "Surround Shaw" for big games, it's a distinctive home field advantage and not something put upon them by the school. His players practice just as long and as hard as basketball does, but without the wall that keeps its players away from the totality of student life. (And no, I'm not saying this because Elvado just offered a post above.)

"In his tenure at Georgetown, Wiese has coached 32 players who have signed with an MLS squad, a Hermann Trophy winner, three Hermann Trophy finalists, six Hermann Trophy semifinalists, 19 All-Americans, 19 BIG EAST Players of the Year and 74 All-BIG EAST honorees as well as both the College Cup Most Outstanding Offensive and Defensive Player. On the academic side, he has had two Academic All-Americans, three Academic All-Region honoree, three BIG EAST Scholar-Athletes and one Elite89 Award winner. The team has seen unprecedented success under Wiese with 10 NCAA Tournament berths in an 11-year span. The squad has also won six BIG EAST regular season championships, five BIG EAST Championships and been ranked among the top 25 in 12 seasons including stints at No. 1 in the nation."

guhoyas.com/sports/mens-soccer/roster/coaches/brian-wiese/1865

Is soccer different than basketball? Of course, but Georgetown now has a distinctive brand in that sport because of what Wiese is trying to do, not what he is trying to copy from what was here before.

Soccer school, baby!!! Just in time for the World Cup 2026!!

So what's the brand? Winning?

[prhoya]

Feb 8, 2023 22:37:03 GMT -5 coach98 said:

Feb 7, 2023 22:31:05 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Soccer school, baby!!! Just in time for the World Cup 2026!!

So what's the brand? Winning?

Yes, we’re a soccer powerhouse. I think from here until 2026 (USA World Cup), soccer will have an exponential growth in the US. Since we’re one of the premier college soccer programs, GU could benefit greatly from that growth. The only negative is that IIRC no WC game will be played in DC.

[hoyaguy]

Feb 8, 2023 22:58:09 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Feb 8, 2023 22:37:03 GMT -5 coach98 said:

So what's the brand? Winning?

Yes, we’re a soccer powerhouse. I think from here until 2026 (USA World Cup), soccer will have an exponential growth in the US. Since we’re one of the premier college soccer programs, GU could benefit greatly from that growth. The only negative is that IIRC no WC game will be played in DC.

And the US is also bidding for the womens 2027 World Cup. Keeping the momentum going through 2030+ would be phenomenal