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Post by wrestlemania on Jan 18, 2023 18:00:49 GMT -5
I have to wonder what the folks who run the Big East think of all this. I mean, there's bad and then there's flat-out embarrassing, and Georgetown crossed the threshold some time ago. While I'm not suggesting that the conference would kick a charter member like GU out for administrative ineptitude (or that they even have the authority to do that), I believe the Big East does have an expectation that member schools will run their programs in a professional, sensible and financially responsible way, with oversight by experienced, accountable people who at least appear to know what they're doing. In no respect does Georgetown currently satisfy those standards. So while I think Georgetown's history in the conference will always inoculate it from a conference coup d'etat, I would not be surprised to see the Big East apply whatever muscle it has to straighten things out if they don't get better soon. Big John ain't around anymore.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Jan 18, 2023 19:44:12 GMT -5
I have to wonder what the folks who run the Big East think of all this. I mean, there's bad and then there's flat-out embarrassing, and Georgetown crossed the threshold some time ago. While I'm not suggesting that the conference would kick a charter member like GU out for administrative ineptitude (or that they even have the authority to do that), I believe the Big East does have an expectation that member schools will run their programs in a professional, sensible and financially responsible way, with oversight by experienced, accountable people who at least appear to know what they're doing. In no respect does Georgetown currently satisfy those standards. So while I think Georgetown's history in the conference will always inoculate it from a conference coup d'etat, I would not be surprised to see the Big East apply whatever muscle it has to straighten things out if they don't get better soon. Big John ain't around anymore. They won the conference championship the year before last... duh? |
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 18, 2023 19:54:56 GMT -5
I have to wonder what the folks who run the Big East think of all this. I mean, there's bad and then there's flat-out embarrassing, and Georgetown crossed the threshold some time ago. While I'm not suggesting that the conference would kick a charter member like GU out for administrative ineptitude (or that they even have the authority to do that), I believe the Big East does have an expectation that member schools will run their programs in a professional, sensible and financially responsible way, with oversight by experienced, accountable people who at least appear to know what they're doing. In no respect does Georgetown currently satisfy those standards. So while I think Georgetown's history in the conference will always inoculate it from a conference coup d'etat, I would not be surprised to see the Big East apply whatever muscle it has to straighten things out if they don't get better soon. Big John ain't around anymore. They won the conference championship the year before last... duh? Point taken, but the member schools cannot, and should not, be happy. As far as the Big East Administrators go, MYOB. |
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daveg23
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Post by daveg23 on Jan 18, 2023 20:22:43 GMT -5
The fact that a loss to a conference foe in Georgetown could be a Q4 loss, is a major disaster for a league. The conference and other schools cannot be happy.
Nothing to say of the upcoming TV rights deal has a lot less appeal with a bad Gtown and a no longer dominant Nova.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Jan 18, 2023 21:40:16 GMT -5
I have to wonder what the folks who run the Big East think of all this. I mean, there's bad and then there's flat-out embarrassing, and Georgetown crossed the threshold some time ago. While I'm not suggesting that the conference would kick a charter member like GU out for administrative ineptitude (or that they even have the authority to do that), I believe the Big East does have an expectation that member schools will run their programs in a professional, sensible and financially responsible way, with oversight by experienced, accountable people who at least appear to know what they're doing. In no respect does Georgetown currently satisfy those standards. So while I think Georgetown's history in the conference will always inoculate it from a conference coup d'etat, I would not be surprised to see the Big East apply whatever muscle it has to straighten things out if they don't get better soon. Big John ain't around anymore. They won the conference championship the year before last... duh? Yeah then got obliterated by Colorado in the tournament and now might have 2 consecutive seasons of 0 conference wins with the same coach. The expectation when the new BE formed was that Nova and us would be fighting for the titles and regular contenders in the tournament. That has not worked out obviously and we are about as opposite to those expectations as humanly possible actually. Do you believe Val has nothing to be annoyed about rn? |
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 18, 2023 21:48:50 GMT -5
They won the conference championship the year before last... duh? Yeah then got obliterated by Colorado in the tournament and now might have 2 consecutive seasons of 0 conference wins with the same coach. The expectation when the new BE formed was that Nova and us would be fighting for the titles and regular contenders in the tournament. That has not worked out obviously and we are about as opposite to those expectations as humanly possible actually. Do you believe Val has nothing to be annoyed about rn? The failure of Georgetown to get at large bids costs the rest of the conference a share of NCAA money for making the tournament. Of course Ackerman should be concerned. The one-off BET Championship and single auto NCAA bid does not compensate for the other years of total failure. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 19, 2023 6:52:01 GMT -5
The failure of Georgetown to get at large bids costs the rest of the conference a share of NCAA money for making the tournament. Of course Ackerman should be concerned. The one-off BET Championship and single auto NCAA bid does not compensate for the other years of total failure. I don't think the conference would get angry that Georgetown would miss an at large bid, even for 10 years in a row. What the Big East should be concerned about is that for two years in a row, Georgetown has been so bad that it could singlehandedly endanger someone else's bubble candidacy. The chasm between DePaul and Georgetown and the administrative inaction while every other team in the conference is upgrading is the real issue here - there's supposed to be a floor of competitiveness when playing a conference team and Georgetown is way below that floor. |
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daveg23
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Post by daveg23 on Jan 19, 2023 7:19:00 GMT -5
The failure of Georgetown to get at large bids costs the rest of the conference a share of NCAA money for making the tournament. Of course Ackerman should be concerned. The one-off BET Championship and single auto NCAA bid does not compensate for the other years of total failure. I don't think the conference would get angry that Georgetown would miss an at large bid, even for 10 years in a row. What the Big East should be concerned about is that for two years in a row, Georgetown has been so bad that it could singlehandedly endanger someone else's bubble candidacy. The chasm between DePaul and Georgetown and the administrative inaction while every other team in the conference is upgrading is the real issue here - there's supposed to be a floor of competitiveness when playing a conference team and Georgetown is way below that floor. ^^^ This You can’t have a team in a major conference drag down your SoS or the nightmare scenario of a Q4 loss. It has to be a conversation within league circles. |
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 19, 2023 7:31:32 GMT -5
Who’s Val having this conversation with?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 19, 2023 8:04:26 GMT -5
Who’s Val having this conversation with? Ronny of course. He will, with his vast history of past success, assuage Val’s fears and put the ship right. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 19, 2023 9:46:41 GMT -5
While I think other conference members are likely displeased that Georgetown is so bad that any loss to Georgetown is a major red flag on their NCAA tournament resume (and for bubble teams, possibly drags them under the bubble), I also doubt that there is significant pressure on DeGioia or anybody else at Georgetown from Val Ackerman.
I mean, look at DePaul. Since they started as a Big East member in 2005-2006, DePaul has had one season where they were above .500 in the conference. Otherwise, they have been a disaster. Yet, despite all that and a questionable hire in Dave Leitao in 2015, DePaul persists and the conference hasn't done anything (at least nothing effective about it). Now, I get it. Georgetown has a bigger name, a bigger history in the Big East, it is a more prestigious institution, etc. So, in that sense, perhaps Georgetown matters more (indeed, last year Georgetown had the highest viewership numbers despite being horrible) than DePaul, but if the conference has put up with DePaul being horrible all these years, they'll do the same for Georgetown. Of course, that doesn't mean the conference and Ackerman aren't frustrated, but I do think it would set a very bad precedent for Big East leadership to meddle in university affairs (even if, in this instance, she'd be doing a good thing).
These things ebb and flow too. As Georgetown fans, our concern of course is that we repeat DePaul's horrible record over the last 18 years. DePaul hasn't had a winning conference record since 2007, that's 16 consecutive sub .500 seasons (including this season, assuming they do finish below .500). While this season is still worse than any DePaul season arguably, DePaul still has a much longer history of being horrible.
The real key is making a bold, big change after this season. If Georgetown hires a coach who has experience and a proven winner, we will be back on top in no time. But only if DeGioia has the courage to break the Ronny Thompson mold.
(And as an aside, it's important to remember that while basketball is the big revenue driver, and clearly the most important sport, the Big East extends well beyond basketball for a wide variety of male and female sports. Putting aside basketball, Georgetown has some good teams in other sports, and is still important to the conference in that sense. Though obviously, Georgetown would bring the biggest value by being good at basketball.)
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Post by bearsandbulls on Jan 19, 2023 9:53:56 GMT -5
I have to wonder what the folks who run the Big East think of all this. I mean, there's bad and then there's flat-out embarrassing, and Georgetown crossed the threshold some time ago. While I'm not suggesting that the conference would kick a charter member like GU out for administrative ineptitude (or that they even have the authority to do that), I believe the Big East does have an expectation that member schools will run their programs in a professional, sensible and financially responsible way, with oversight by experienced, accountable people who at least appear to know what they're doing. In no respect does Georgetown currently satisfy those standards. So while I think Georgetown's history in the conference will always inoculate it from a conference coup d'etat, I would not be surprised to see the Big East apply whatever muscle it has to straighten things out if they don't get better soon. Big John ain't around anymore. They won the conference championship the year before last... duh? With a 13-13 season, 7-9 in the Big East. Was not good at all up to the tourney. With that exceptional week it has been a downhill dumpster fire. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 19, 2023 10:18:50 GMT -5
Justifying anything relating to Ewing based on the BET win, at this point, is just absurd and arguably trolling. Since the BET win, Georgetown (a) has not won a Big East game, (b) has not beat a high-major team other than Syracuse last year, (c) Georgetown's best win in the last two years other than #69 Syracuse (last season) is #145 Longwood (last season), and (d) Georgetown has had it's worst OOC losses ever (American and South Carolina). This alone warrants moving on.
And that is even if we IGNORE Ewing's failure to ever have a Big East record over .500 over SIX seasons, his massive inability to keep a roster in place (even before the transfer portal existed), his failure to graduate players, his shepherding our team to sanctions-level APR ratings, and our dismal overall record.
So yeah, we won a fluke BET, so what? It doesn't matter. That argument may have worked after 2021 or even last year, but it has been consumed by subsequent events and is now irrelevant.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Jan 19, 2023 12:38:09 GMT -5
While I think other conference members are likely displeased that Georgetown is so bad that any loss to Georgetown is a major red flag on their NCAA tournament resume (and for bubble teams, possibly drags them under the bubble), I also doubt that there is significant pressure on DeGioia or anybody else at Georgetown from Val Ackerman. I mean, look at DePaul. Since they started as a Big East member in 2005-2006, DePaul has had one season where they were above .500 in the conference. Otherwise, they have been a disaster. Yet, despite all that and a questionable hire in Dave Leitao in 2015, DePaul persists and the conference hasn't done anything (at least nothing effective about it). Now, I get it. Georgetown has a bigger name, a bigger history in the Big East, it is a more prestigious institution, etc. So, in that sense, perhaps Georgetown matters more (indeed, last year Georgetown had the highest viewership numbers despite being horrible) than DePaul, but if the conference has put up with DePaul being horrible all these years, they'll do the same for Georgetown. Of course, that doesn't mean the conference and Ackerman aren't frustrated, but I do think it would set a very bad precedent for Big East leadership to meddle in university affairs (even if, in this instance, she'd be doing a good thing). These things ebb and flow too. As Georgetown fans, our concern of course is that we repeat DePaul's horrible record over the last 18 years. DePaul hasn't had a winning conference record since 2007, that's 16 consecutive sub .500 seasons (including this season, assuming they do finish below .500). While this season is still worse than any DePaul season arguably, DePaul still has a much longer history of being horrible. The real key is making a bold, big change after this season. If Georgetown hires a coach who has experience and a proven winner, we will be back on top in no time. But only if DeGioia has the courage to break the Ronny Thompson mold. (And as an aside, it's important to remember that while basketball is the big revenue driver, and clearly the most important sport, the Big East extends well beyond basketball for a wide variety of male and female sports. Putting aside basketball, Georgetown has some good teams in other sports, and is still important to the conference in that sense. Though obviously, Georgetown would bring the biggest value by being good at basketball.) The difference between us and DePaul is that it is expected they are bad with the slim hope they eventually get it together and the BE was desperate to keep a conference and identity together. We were expected to be at least decent, if not occasional contenders, to help bring in money from the tournament and leverage for tv. If the other BE schools had the competence and lack of proactivity of Georgetown, the BE would fully be a mid major at this point after falling behind the the AAC post-split and UConn would have never been added back. I’m not saying Val is calling up JD, but there is no way there are only positive feelings towards him, Ronny, or Pat from the other programs and major BE people like Val. And they would be completely justified in their feelings towards this incompetent mess so I would welcome any outsider’s input to get JD to actually move his feet |
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jan 19, 2023 14:22:55 GMT -5
The conference can live with a DePaul. Can live with a DePaul and a wildly sub-DePaul program at the same time?
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jackofjoy
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by jackofjoy on Jan 19, 2023 15:58:09 GMT -5
While I think other conference members are likely displeased that Georgetown is so bad that any loss to Georgetown is a major red flag on their NCAA tournament resume (and for bubble teams, possibly drags them under the bubble), I also doubt that there is significant pressure on DeGioia or anybody else at Georgetown from Val Ackerman. I mean, look at DePaul. Since they started as a Big East member in 2005-2006, DePaul has had one season where they were above .500 in the conference. Otherwise, they have been a disaster. Yet, despite all that and a questionable hire in Dave Leitao in 2015, DePaul persists and the conference hasn't done anything (at least nothing effective about it). Now, I get it. Georgetown has a bigger name, a bigger history in the Big East, it is a more prestigious institution, etc. So, in that sense, perhaps Georgetown matters more (indeed, last year Georgetown had the highest viewership numbers despite being horrible) than DePaul, but if the conference has put up with DePaul being horrible all these years, they'll do the same for Georgetown. Of course, that doesn't mean the conference and Ackerman aren't frustrated, but I do think it would set a very bad precedent for Big East leadership to meddle in university affairs (even if, in this instance, she'd be doing a good thing). These things ebb and flow too. As Georgetown fans, our concern of course is that we repeat DePaul's horrible record over the last 18 years. DePaul hasn't had a winning conference record since 2007, that's 16 consecutive sub .500 seasons (including this season, assuming they do finish below .500). While this season is still worse than any DePaul season arguably, DePaul still has a much longer history of being horrible. The real key is making a bold, big change after this season. If Georgetown hires a coach who has experience and a proven winner, we will be back on top in no time. But only if DeGioia has the courage to break the Ronny Thompson mold. (And as an aside, it's important to remember that while basketball is the big revenue driver, and clearly the most important sport, the Big East extends well beyond basketball for a wide variety of male and female sports. Putting aside basketball, Georgetown has some good teams in other sports, and is still important to the conference in that sense. Though obviously, Georgetown would bring the biggest value by being good at basketball.) This, of course. Pity the BE commish who dares “assault” the legacy of John Thompson by telling the school that frankly, they suck and better get their act together. 40+ years of goodwill >> 2 history-making level terrible years. Unfortunately. |
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Post by wrestlemania on Jan 19, 2023 17:11:01 GMT -5
While I think other conference members are likely displeased that Georgetown is so bad that any loss to Georgetown is a major red flag on their NCAA tournament resume (and for bubble teams, possibly drags them under the bubble), I also doubt that there is significant pressure on DeGioia or anybody else at Georgetown from Val Ackerman. I mean, look at DePaul. Since they started as a Big East member in 2005-2006, DePaul has had one season where they were above .500 in the conference. Otherwise, they have been a disaster. Yet, despite all that and a questionable hire in Dave Leitao in 2015, DePaul persists and the conference hasn't done anything (at least nothing effective about it). Now, I get it. Georgetown has a bigger name, a bigger history in the Big East, it is a more prestigious institution, etc. So, in that sense, perhaps Georgetown matters more (indeed, last year Georgetown had the highest viewership numbers despite being horrible) than DePaul, but if the conference has put up with DePaul being horrible all these years, they'll do the same for Georgetown. Of course, that doesn't mean the conference and Ackerman aren't frustrated, but I do think it would set a very bad precedent for Big East leadership to meddle in university affairs (even if, in this instance, she'd be doing a good thing). These things ebb and flow too. As Georgetown fans, our concern of course is that we repeat DePaul's horrible record over the last 18 years. DePaul hasn't had a winning conference record since 2007, that's 16 consecutive sub .500 seasons (including this season, assuming they do finish below .500). While this season is still worse than any DePaul season arguably, DePaul still has a much longer history of being horrible. The real key is making a bold, big change after this season. If Georgetown hires a coach who has experience and a proven winner, we will be back on top in no time. But only if DeGioia has the courage to break the Ronny Thompson mold. (And as an aside, it's important to remember that while basketball is the big revenue driver, and clearly the most important sport, the Big East extends well beyond basketball for a wide variety of male and female sports. Putting aside basketball, Georgetown has some good teams in other sports, and is still important to the conference in that sense. Though obviously, Georgetown would bring the biggest value by being good at basketball.) Yes, Depaul has lost a lot of games, but the optics of that program are a lot better than Georgetown's right now. They did manage to get their own arena built, and I believe the administrators who came up with the Leitao.2 brainstorm are no longer there. Also, the on-court product appears to be headed in the right direction (note their win over Xavier last night). In other words, while they've struggled a lot, Depaul hasn't become an utter clownshow -- they just haven't been very good. Georgetown is a different story, and the Big East's leadership and member schools know it. |
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miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by miracles87 on Jan 19, 2023 17:37:02 GMT -5
Justifying anything relating to Ewing based on the BET win, at this point, is just absurd and arguably trolling. Since the BET win, Georgetown (a) has not won a Big East game, (b) has not beat a high-major team other than Syracuse last year, (c) Georgetown's best win in the last two years other than #69 Syracuse (last season) is #145 Longwood (last season), and (d) Georgetown has had it's worst OOC losses ever (American and South Carolina). This alone warrants moving on. And that is even if we IGNORE Ewing's failure to ever have a Big East record over .500 over SIX seasons, his massive inability to keep a roster in place (even before the transfer portal existed), his failure to graduate players, his shepherding our team to sanctions-level APR ratings, and our dismal overall record. So yeah, we won a fluke BET, so what? It doesn't matter. That argument may have worked after 2021 or even last year, but it has been consumed by subsequent events and is now irrelevant. [/quote My point was to illustrate how it seems farfetched to worry about a team who won the Big East title less than two years ago being forced out due to performance issues by what would be at least five schools who have NEVER won a Big East title. But please, Hoyasaxa2003, feel free to repeat yourself for the millionth time, never ceases to thrill! And yes, obviously, we do seem to be writing the guidebook on how to draw concern from our peers in as fast a timeframe as possible. But after we win the BET again this year, and make the Sweet Sixteen, everything will be fine... |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 19, 2023 18:09:29 GMT -5
Yes, Depaul has lost a lot of games, but the optics of that program are a lot better than Georgetown's right now. They did manage to get their own arena built, and I believe the administrators who came up with the Leitao.2 brainstorm are no longer there. Also, the on-court product appears to be headed in the right direction (note their win over Xavier last night). In other words, while they've struggled a lot, Depaul hasn't become an utter clownshow -- they just haven't been very good. Georgetown is a different story, and the Big East's leadership and member schools know it. I take your point, but the pendulum swings both ways. Remember the type of press and buzz that Georgetown got in 2021 with the BET? That run showed that our program still had a fair amount of cachet among journalists, etc. That's something that DePaul doesn't have, nor will it get it barring a stretch of winning, which it has been unable to put together for way longer than Georgetown. In a way, we are kind of at a crossroads, which is why getting the next hire is so key. Many of the people currently in sports media are in the 40-60 range, and those people (especially the older end of the range) remember a strong Georgetown program, and even the younger ones would recall some strong years, too. These types of media people, including at ESPN, but also elsewhere would love to write a "Georgetown back on top," story, and I promise if we hire a coach like Pitino that gets us back to the NCAA tournament those stories will be written. You cannot say the same thing about DePaul, simply because they do not have the same level of past success, nor frankly, do journalists care a whole lot about them. I realize we look like a "clownshow," and it certainly seems that way give Ewing's ineptitude. But, most people aren't paying that much attention to us, and at most just know we are really bad. Hire a good coach, put together some wins, and suddenly the narrative changes. The real problem arises if we take a "safe" (James Jones style) or risky choice (Mike Jones or someone without head coaching experience), and then we spend another 4-6 years in the wilderness. At some point, we would be so bad for so long that many of those journalists and fans who would easily come back if we started winning will have (sadly) moved on either in interest, simply because they are no longer in the industry, or (eventually) pass away. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 19, 2023 21:21:48 GMT -5
Yes, Depaul has lost a lot of games, but the optics of that program are a lot better than Georgetown's right now. They did manage to get their own arena built, and I believe the administrators who came up with the Leitao.2 brainstorm are no longer there. Also, the on-court product appears to be headed in the right direction (note their win over Xavier last night). In other words, while they've struggled a lot, Depaul hasn't become an utter clownshow -- they just haven't been very good. Georgetown is a different story, and the Big East's leadership and member schools know it. I take your point, but the pendulum swings both ways. Remember the type of press and buzz that Georgetown got in 2021 with the BET? That run showed that our program still had a fair amount of cachet among journalists, etc. That's something that DePaul doesn't have, nor will it get it barring a stretch of winning, which it has been unable to put together for way longer than Georgetown. In a way, we are kind of at a crossroads, which is why getting the next hire is so key. Many of the people currently in sports media are in the 40-60 range, and those people (especially the older end of the range) remember a strong Georgetown program, and even the younger ones would recall some strong years, too. These types of media people, including at ESPN, but also elsewhere would love to write a "Georgetown back on top," story, and I promise if we hire a coach like Pitino that gets us back to the NCAA tournament those stories will be written. You cannot say the same thing about DePaul, simply because they do not have the same level of past success, nor frankly, do journalists care a whole lot about them. I realize we look like a "clownshow," and it certainly seems that way give Ewing's ineptitude. But, most people aren't paying that much attention to us, and at most just know we are really bad. Hire a good coach, put together some wins, and suddenly the narrative changes. The real problem arises if we take a "safe" (James Jones style) or risky choice (Mike Jones or someone without head coaching experience), and then we spend another 4-6 years in the wilderness. At some point, we would be so bad for so long that many of those journalists and fans who would easily come back if we started winning will have (sadly) moved on either in interest, simply because they are no longer in the industry, or (eventually) pass away. That cachet among journalists you speak of was much more about Ewing than Gtown. It was a feel-good story, especially for ESPN folks. To be fair if Pitino took over DePaul they'd get a lot of press much in the same way Iona is getting coverage now. Gtown looks like a "clown show" much more due to the administration than Ewing's terrible record, inaction during a 33-game HM losing streak(Goodman updates the full list after each loss) is a head-scratcher to anyone covering CBB. Local press is more important than the national press for programs anyway, we know why Gtown gets little coverage locally... |
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