HoyaNCCT
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
We will remind them.
Posts: 685
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Post by HoyaNCCT on Aug 2, 2005 14:07:15 GMT -5
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FOTP
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,435
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Post by FOTP on Aug 2, 2005 14:19:17 GMT -5
Not fair. I wouldn't put him in the top 10. No way does he go in front of O'Brien etc. Esh was clean and did things the right way with his players. His only real fault was not winning enough games...important, but Esherick is certainly a coach who could and should be hired.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Aug 2, 2005 14:20:01 GMT -5
Wow. WOnder if big E saw this.
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hoyahoyasaxa
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Sead Dizdarezvic doesn't write term papers. The words rearrange themselves out of fear.
Posts: 464
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Post by hoyahoyasaxa on Aug 2, 2005 14:22:01 GMT -5
Is there an over/under on the number of posts that are going to be in this thread before it dies? I'll take the over.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,783
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 2, 2005 14:24:20 GMT -5
Humorous, but frankly, Esh belongs nowhere near this list. At least 8 of those coaches are openly dirty, and Doyel gives no real reason for not including Bliss.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Aug 2, 2005 14:25:01 GMT -5
I was by no means his biggest fan, but there is no way he belongs in the same "class" as the rest of these guys. You're picking on the the ethically challenged and taking pot shots at guys, but Bliss gets a pass? I know Doyel thinks highly of us and III now, but what an idiot.
I hear Buff's reply now: "I would pay anybody's way to come down here and watch all the crap Greg Doyel has to put up with!"
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2005 14:26:49 GMT -5
Yeah its pretty weak to throw Esh and even Lappas on this list. The other eight either ran dirty programs, or cheated in one way or another. Esherick and Lappas just stunk for the most part, big deal. There are plenty of coaches who couldn't draw up a halfway decent play with 20 seconds on the clock and a tie ball game, so what!? That's no reason to say they are part of the "10 Least Wanted."
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,783
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 2, 2005 14:27:43 GMT -5
I mean, aside from hair, was Esherick any worse, than say, Quinn Snyder?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2005 14:28:02 GMT -5
Damnit, bubblevision... I had a whole modified Greg Doyel rant coming. Thanks for nuthin'.
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FOTP
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,435
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Post by FOTP on Aug 2, 2005 14:34:03 GMT -5
Master - Shhhh...you must not say anything bad about someone from the pristine circle of Duke...you will be punished by the mainstream media for saying that anyone from this program is a loser who should be fired.
Shhhhh....I hear Vitale storming around the corner...
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Aug 2, 2005 14:40:40 GMT -5
Damnit, bubblevision... I had a whole modified Greg Doyel rant coming. Thanks for nuthin'. C'mon, go ahead. I'lll even delete my post! I'm spening all day looking for a Professor Frink avatar anyway! |
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Aug 2, 2005 14:55:30 GMT -5
As far as taking a top notch program from 60 to 0, he did that. You might be able to put Mike Davis on this, Steve Lavin, and Matt Dougherty. I think the key is that we went from the top half to the bottom half of the big east pretty quickly. I can't think of many other marquee programs that had something similar happen.
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Aug 2, 2005 15:01:16 GMT -5
I can now pass away and rest in peace - a thread with multiple Esh defenders and not a hint of a pile-on fest - can world peace be far behind? I'm sure while I was typing this a dozen Esh bashing probably were posted.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Aug 2, 2005 15:05:03 GMT -5
I can now pass away and rest in peace - a thread with multiple Esh defenders and not a hint of a pile-on fest - can world peace be far behind? I'm sure while I was typing this a dozen Esh bashing probably were posted. Well, since it's an outsider attacking him, we all rise to our fellow Hoya's defense. The true test will be when JahidiHoya reads this  |
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2ndRyan
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 329
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Post by 2ndRyan on Aug 2, 2005 15:08:35 GMT -5
Esh and even more so Lappas don't belong on this list-I think the author might have stopped at eight.
Perhaps two other lists which might be interesting are
1. Coaches who followed icons and couldn't stop the slide or keep the ride going (Lappas and Esh perhaps belong here) and
2. Icons who stayed too long (e.g. Digger, Gene Keady etc.)
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 2, 2005 17:01:27 GMT -5
Brian Mahoney belongs in Category 1.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,783
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 2, 2005 17:07:46 GMT -5
Joey Meyer.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Aug 2, 2005 18:53:41 GMT -5
Who gives a crap what Doyel thinks?
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Aug 3, 2005 8:13:40 GMT -5
As far as taking a top notch program from 60 to 0, he did that. You might be able to put Mike Davis on this, Steve Lavin, and Matt Dougherty. I think the key is that we went from the top half to the bottom half of the big east pretty quickly. I can't think of many other marquee programs that had something similar happen. 1. The notion that Gtown was smoking along at 60 mph when Esh took over is absurd. Page carried us to the NCAAs in '97, we missed the NCAAs in '98, and we were really struggling (0-4 in the Big East) in '99 before Big John stepped down. Plus, the program had a horrible infrastructure: poor facilities, few ties w/ AAU coaches (Big John did not like them), etc. If anything, we were somewhere around 45 mph. 2. Next, Craig was able to actually turn things around at first and take us back to the Sweet Sixteen, so to say that he just decelerated the program is pretty inaccurate. 3. Finally, the program never reached "0" on the speedometer. Even though we were disappointed in '02, we still won 19 games and went 9-7 in the BE. In '03, we won 19 games again and reached the NIT finals. These are not the results that we hoped for, but they were far from the depths of college bball. Even in '04, we never came close to rock bottom. We had a very bad year in a brutal conference. The same has happened to UNC and Duke. Like those instances, it took some a bad combination of events to make that happen: top player leaves for the NBA, top recruit fails to qualify, next top recruit blows out his knee in the summer. One year at the bottom of the standings is not rock bottom. What happened at Baylor, Georgia, or Minnesota is rock bottom. And we don't need to be reminded that Craig did not exactly leave us with nothing coming in. I think we will be reminded of that a lot this year when not only Green but also Hibbert and Crawford play prominent roles. And consider that Guibunda was much better suited to Esh's system. Look, although I supported and still support Esh, I'm not saying that he was perfect. But the fact is that he took over a proud program on a weak foundation that was bound to do some soul searching after its cult-of-personality icon departed, and he was unable to prevent some further slide in stature. But the notion of 60 to 0 is wholly inaccurate. |
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,783
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 3, 2005 8:53:16 GMT -5
Can we just ban Esherick discussions?
The idea that Esherick turned us around to get to the Sweet Sixteen is laughable. Everyone on that team that contributed EXCEPT Gerald Riley committed under Thompson. We just got a bit older and you could argue that the Hoyas that year underperformed for their talent (not the Sweet Sixteen, but earning a 10 seed and their overall record).
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