|
Post by wyattrox on Jul 8, 2022 15:47:55 GMT -5
Agreed, Cal to the Big East makes no sense. I think the newly-depleted ACC and Big XII are going to be poaching Big East schools and programs like Gonzaga, not the Big East poaching from the ACC/Big XII/Pac-12. It's not poaching. If only Cal, Wazzu, and Oregon State are left in the PAC, I think it's more likely they would rather join a league with Gonzaga, Georgetown, and Villanova than one with Fresno, UNLV, and boise state. I think cal is a better fit than St. Mary in the Bay Area given its higher profile and larger enrollment/arena. I do not think public school vs private school will be important as before and brand will be more important as long as its not like Memphis or Wichita state. I think Cal would rather go to the big east and independent in football than end up in the mountain west. Last, yeah I think it's more likely Gonzaga, Villanova, uconn, georgetown get added to the big east than programs like Duke or Kansas ever join. Cal is the program in the p5 rn that is a good academic fit in a major market / airport that is the most likely to fall out of the p5. stanford is a better fit but is less likely as I think they end up with ND in the Big10 (most likely) or ACC eventually.
|
|
|
Post by wyattrox on Jul 8, 2022 15:50:41 GMT -5
It appears as if another massive conference realignment is on the horizon. UCLA and USC are confirmed to be leaving the PAC-12 for the Big 10 and Texas and Oklahoma the Big 12 for the SEC. There is a general sense that college football is moving to two mega conferences with major programs not currently associated looking to join in order to get some of that sweet sweet football money. So what does that mean for the future of the Big East? Would universities with major basketball programs and lackluster football programs who are left out of the mega conferences be enticed by the Big East? They would likely have to do a UCONN move where football becomes independent. I know that money is the driving force for these decisions and football is king but would a new depleted ACC or BIG 12 conference provide substantially more money than that of a loaded basketball-focused Big East. Kansas right away is the school that jumps out as a potential add if the Big 12 crumbles. Obviously a basketball powerhouse they would greatly strengthen the level of the conference. Would they be willing to abandon their (historically bad) football as UCONN did? Doing so could open the conference up to two divisions and provide an East and West option that helps the massive geography gap with Gonzaga, a perfect fit for the Big East in every criteria except for location. Could also extend an invite to St Mary's in order to provide another west coast team and preserve their rivalry. Big East (East) Georgetown Villanova Providence UConn St Johns Seton Hall Big East (West) Kansas Gonzaga St Mary's Butler Creighton Marquette Depaul Xavier Home and away every year against your division. Alternating home/away every year for out of division opponents. Would have to add at least one other East division team in order to balance the divisions and increase the number of games. I saw a Villanova-fan twitter account post something similar and included Duke and Syracuse. While Duke would be an incredible addition and getting Syracuse back would be fantastic these feel less likely. What are people's thoughts on what the Big East will look like in 5 years? How reasonable is Kansas? Gonzaga? St Marys? Duke? Syracuse? Any Others? I think it's much more likely that the Big East doesn't exist in a few years than teams like Kansas/Gonzaga/Duke/Syracuse will be joining the Big East. Agreed. The only program I think the big east has a real shot at besides A10 schools is Gonzaga. Kansas/Duke/Cuse will be ok. I think it's more likely Uconn NOVA and Georgetown join the acc than duke and Syracuse join the big east. Some combination of BC, Duke, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Pitt, Louisville is a better core for a league than the top 3 in the big east and it has football money.
|
|
hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,260
|
Post by hoyaboya on Jul 8, 2022 16:01:49 GMT -5
Agreed, Cal to the Big East makes no sense. I think the newly-depleted ACC and Big XII are going to be poaching Big East schools and programs like Gonzaga, not the Big East poaching from the ACC/Big XII/Pac-12. It's not poaching. If only Cal, Wazzu, and Oregon State are left in the PAC, I think it's more likely they would rather join a league with Gonzaga, Georgetown, and Villanova than one with Fresno, UNLV, and boise state. I think cal is a better fit than St. Mary in the Bay Area given its higher profile and larger enrollment/arena. I do not think public school vs private school will be important as before and brand will be more important as long as its not like Memphis or Wichita state. I think Cal would rather go to the big east and independent in football than end up in the mountain west. Last, yeah I think it's more likely Gonzaga, Villanova, uconn, georgetown get added to the big east than programs like Duke or Kansas ever join. Cal is the program in the p5 rn that is a good academic fit in a major market / airport that is the most likely to fall out of the p5. Why would Cal, Wazzu and Oregon State join with the Big East over the Big XII or the ACC?
|
|
|
Post by wyattrox on Jul 8, 2022 16:19:49 GMT -5
It's not poaching. If only Cal, Wazzu, and Oregon State are left in the PAC, I think it's more likely they would rather join a league with Gonzaga, Georgetown, and Villanova than one with Fresno, UNLV, and boise state. I think cal is a better fit than St. Mary in the Bay Area given its higher profile and larger enrollment/arena. I do not think public school vs private school will be important as before and brand will be more important as long as its not like Memphis or Wichita state. I think Cal would rather go to the big east and independent in football than end up in the mountain west. Last, yeah I think it's more likely Gonzaga, Villanova, uconn, georgetown get added to the big east than programs like Duke or Kansas ever join. Cal is the program in the p5 rn that is a good academic fit in a major market / airport that is the most likely to fall out of the p5. Why would Cal, Wazzu and Oregon State join with the Big East over the Big XII or the ACC? the choice wouldn’t be the big 12 or ACC. It would be the mountain west or the big east + Independence. ACC and big 12 would get less value from those football teams than they need to justify cutting them in on a tv deal
|
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jul 8, 2022 16:46:40 GMT -5
I will never care about Butler, Creighton and Xavier.
|
|
hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,260
|
Post by hoyaboya on Jul 8, 2022 16:51:45 GMT -5
Why would Cal, Wazzu and Oregon State join with the Big East over the Big XII or the ACC? the choice wouldn’t be the big 12 or ACC. It would be the mountain west or the big east + Independence. ACC and big 12 would get less value from those football teams than they need to justify cutting them in on a tv deal I think there's very, very little chance Cal is still left on the sidelines after this musical chairs game. It has traditionally pretty strong football and basketball programs and is located in a major market as one of the flagship state schools in a huge state. So now you're really just talking about Oregon State and Washington State - assuming the Big East is still in business (a huge assumption I wouldn't be willng to make), why exactly would the remaining Big East schools want Oregon State and Washington State in the conference?
|
|
|
Post by wyattrox on Jul 8, 2022 17:06:14 GMT -5
the choice wouldn’t be the big 12 or ACC. It would be the mountain west or the big east + Independence. ACC and big 12 would get less value from those football teams than they need to justify cutting them in on a tv deal I think there's very, very little chance Cal is still left on the sidelines after this musical chairs game. It has traditionally pretty strong football and basketball programs and is located in a major market as one of the flagship state schools in a huge state. So now you're really just talking about Oregon State and Washington State - assuming the Big East is still in business (a huge assumption I wouldn't be willng to make), why exactly would the remaining Big East schools want Oregon State and Washington State in the conference? you are overestimating the value of Cal. If the big 10 wanted them they would already be there. The ND domino affects Stanford but not Cal. Also UW and UO. Cal only gets into the ACC in weird scenarios. Again a ND Stanford combo with UO and UW likely boxes them out.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jul 8, 2022 18:28:10 GMT -5
I think it's much more likely that the Big East doesn't exist in a few years than teams like Kansas/Gonzaga/Duke/Syracuse will be joining the Big East. Agreed. The only program I think the big east has a real shot at besides A10 schools is Gonzaga. Kansas/Duke/Cuse will be ok. I think it's more likely Uconn NOVA and Georgetown join the acc than duke and Syracuse join the big east. Some combination of BC, Duke, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Pitt, Louisville is a better core for a league than the top 3 in the big east and it has football money. It is important to remember that football is key. The ACC earns a lot more money per year than the Big East (even if it is lower than the SEC or Big 10) because of football. Georgetown, and it's fellow Big East members, do not have football, and thus, it is highly unlikely they will be invited to the party. If the ACC took a bunch of non-basketball schools, it would basically become similar to the old Big East (which would still be a great basketball conference, but likely unstable). Until the football stuff shakes out, I think it would be foolish for Georgetown to leave the Big East for the ACC. But, I acknowledge that it would at the same time be extremely difficult to turn down the chance to compete against many of our old conference-mates, while also adding good teams like Duke to the picture. The other problem the ACC is going to have is that if programs like Florida State and Clemson leave, the football product of the ACC will become even worse than it already is at the moment. That's not a conference that's going to get a ton of football viewers. It might be better than the old Big East football, but probably not by much.
|
|
|
Post by Lethal_Interjection on Jul 8, 2022 22:01:44 GMT -5
/photo/1
|
|
|
Post by wyattrox on Jul 9, 2022 8:48:08 GMT -5
Agreed. The only program I think the big east has a real shot at besides A10 schools is Gonzaga. Kansas/Duke/Cuse will be ok. I think it's more likely Uconn NOVA and Georgetown join the acc than duke and Syracuse join the big east. Some combination of BC, Duke, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Pitt, Louisville is a better core for a league than the top 3 in the big east and it has football money. It is important to remember that football is key. The ACC earns a lot more money per year than the Big East (even if it is lower than the SEC or Big 10) because of football. Georgetown, and it's fellow Big East members, do not have football, and thus, it is highly unlikely they will be invited to the party. If the ACC took a bunch of non-basketball schools, it would basically become similar to the old Big East (which would still be a great basketball conference, but likely unstable). Until the football stuff shakes out, I think it would be foolish for Georgetown to leave the Big East for the ACC. But, I acknowledge that it would at the same time be extremely difficult to turn down the chance to compete against many of our old conference-mates, while also adding good teams like Duke to the picture. The other problem the ACC is going to have is that if programs like Florida State and Clemson leave, the football product of the ACC will become even worse than it already is at the moment. That's not a conference that's going to get a ton of football viewers. It might be better than the old Big East football, but probably not by much. being with the academic brands of BC PITT Duke Wake etc would likely lead to the school president preferring that conference to one with seton hall St. John’s etc
|
|
|
Post by wyattrox on Jul 9, 2022 8:49:09 GMT -5
when are we gonna find out about Q and Heath eligiblity
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,264
Member is Online
|
Post by prhoya on Jul 9, 2022 9:31:15 GMT -5
It is important to remember that football is key. The ACC earns a lot more money per year than the Big East (even if it is lower than the SEC or Big 10) because of football. Georgetown, and it's fellow Big East members, do not have football, and thus, it is highly unlikely they will be invited to the party. If the ACC took a bunch of non-basketball schools, it would basically become similar to the old Big East (which would still be a great basketball conference, but likely unstable). Until the football stuff shakes out, I think it would be foolish for Georgetown to leave the Big East for the ACC. But, I acknowledge that it would at the same time be extremely difficult to turn down the chance to compete against many of our old conference-mates, while also adding good teams like Duke to the picture. The other problem the ACC is going to have is that if programs like Florida State and Clemson leave, the football product of the ACC will become even worse than it already is at the moment. That's not a conference that's going to get a ton of football viewers. It might be better than the old Big East football, but probably not by much. being with the academic brands of BC PITT Duke Wake etc would likely lead to the school president preferring that conference to one with seton hall St. John’s etc DeGioia is one of the founders of the NBE, is still one of its leaders and the Chair for the NCAA Board of Governors. The BE has been very good for Jack and his desire to retain his GU presidential seat for as long as possible. I don’t think he will try a bold move like jumping conferences unless forced to by realignment.
|
|
hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
|
Post by hoya9797 on Jul 9, 2022 9:41:09 GMT -5
when are we gonna find out about Q and Heath eligiblity Ewing is probably hoping one or both are ineligible so that he’s got a built in excuse for his inevitable failure and gets another rebuild cycle.
|
|
blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,748
|
Post by blueandgray on Jul 9, 2022 10:02:26 GMT -5
when are we gonna find out about Q and Heath eligiblity Ewing is probably hoping one or both are ineligible so that he’s got a built in excuse for his inevitable failure and gets another rebuild cycle. Good one!! Very clever!!
|
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jul 9, 2022 12:07:25 GMT -5
We need to do what’s best for the university and all athletic programs, not just mens basketball. It may be time for a bold move, I just don’t believe the current administration has the courage or foresight to take action.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,735
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 9, 2022 13:05:18 GMT -5
We need to do what’s best for the university and all athletic programs, not just mens basketball. It may be time for a bold move, I just don’t believe the current administration has the courage or foresight to take action. Two points: 1. As long as Georgetown University has an irrational fear of competitive football, bold moves are not on the table. The idea that you can add scholarships in 29 sports without fear or favor but the mere idea of football scholarships will somehow transform Georgetown into Ole Miss on the Potomac is groundless. 2. Ten years ago, Georgetown was the flagship of Big East 3.0. It's not close to that now, even if we are loathe to admit it. In that sense, Georgetown is the Big East's version of the Cal Bears, to whom its brand name and academic bonhomie take a back seat when it hasn't been to the Rose Bowl (the game, not the stadium) since 1958 and has one NCAA basketball tournament invitation in ten years. The old Blue and Gold can't figure out why they're not on the Big 10 speed dial. The old Blue and Gray is not on anyone's speed dial either, which this time is actually OK. (More on this Monday.)
|
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jul 9, 2022 14:18:00 GMT -5
If the large public ACC football schools get poached, I would be more than happy to align with Duke, BC, Wake, Syracuse, etc. We fit geographically, academically and are competitive in sports they value like soccer, lacrosse, baseball (now), etc.
|
|
hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,260
|
Post by hoyaboya on Jul 9, 2022 14:51:09 GMT -5
If the large public ACC football schools get poached, I would be more than happy to align with Duke, BC, Wake, Syracuse, etc. We fit geographically, academically and are competitive in sports they value like soccer, lacrosse, baseball (now), etc. Of course WE would want to do that - but why would THEY want to align with a school that has no football program and a horribly declined basketball program? If they go fishing for basketball programs, I'd expect they'd look to schools like UCONN and Kansas first (that at least have some semblance of D1 football) and Gonzaga/Villanova next (far superior basketball programs to ours).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2022 14:59:21 GMT -5
We need to do what’s best for the university and all athletic programs, not just mens basketball. It may be time for a bold move, I just don’t believe the current administration has the courage or foresight to take action. Two points: 1. As long as Georgetown University has an irrational fear of competitive football, bold moves are not on the table. The idea that you can add scholarships in 29 sports without fear or favor but the mere idea of football scholarships will somehow transform Georgetown into Ole Miss on the Potomac is groundless. 2. Ten years ago, Georgetown was the flagship of Big East 3.0. It's not close to that now, even if we are loathe to admit it. In that sense, Georgetown is the Big East's version of the Cal Bears, to whom its brand name and academic bonhomie take a back seat when it hasn't been to the Rose Bowl (the game, not the stadium) since 1958 and has one NCAA basketball tournament invitation in ten years. The old Blue and Gold can't figure out why they're not on the Big 10 speed dial. The old Blue and Gray is not on anyone's speed dial either, which this time is actually OK. (More on this Monday.) Agree on both points, but I believe we had the highest FOX ratings of all BE teams (in our worst season in history). That has to hold some weight during discussions with money being the motive.
|
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jul 9, 2022 15:53:44 GMT -5
Either Nickelberry will deliver or the next coach will. 🤩
|
|