metaphor
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by metaphor on Jun 15, 2022 13:34:53 GMT -5
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 15, 2022 14:09:41 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing. Some of the suggestions for reform do exist, but not consistently: 1. 17 states do accept the 3 on the AP test, others do not. 2. Pell Grants are awarded to individuals, not schools, and generally for lower income students. Telling a student they cannot use a Pell Grant at a school would introduce all sorts of legal pushback. 3. A no-frills degree where "students can opt-out of costly services like job placement programs, access to athletic and social facilities, and requirements to live on campus" exists: it's called online education and this platform has largely flatlined over the last 5-7 years. EdX and Coursera were seen as the future and it's been anything but. I've shared a thought previously on this board that if you really want to tackle the cost of a college education, start with the question of why a degree in course requires four years. (In Canada, it's three.) The academic hierarchy of universities, to those whom are suspicious to change in any form, are at odds with this, because it reduces their labor pool. Why would (or does) a degree in computer science need to be the same number of hours as philosophy or economics? The answer is so they can charge for it. As long as a college education is inelastic to the economies of scale, there is no incentive to do otherwise. Harvard has enough endowment to offer free tuition to every student in perpetuity and still have billions left over, yet sees no need to.
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hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,848
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Post by hoyaguy on Jun 15, 2022 22:56:49 GMT -5
Thank you for writing this and something else regarding the faculty is that the amount of adjuncts and contracted educators has skyrocketed to lower the costs for universities while some of their professors live in near poverty even when they teach 50-100 person lectures only to get a tiny tiny fraction of the tuition money paid for said class. Like it is just shocking what they try to justify. And I agree with DfW that 3 year degrees absolutely need to happen as they are totally possible especially for streamlined majors and students who know exactly what they want and need out of it. And the more lazy pools that universities build the more they sell the idea of it being a place you should never leave and staying there as long as possible. I personally wanted to graduate from gtown a semester early to save money and to do so I was going to take a summer class before senior year at my local CC but my Dean was extremely sparse in communication and evasive in the months leading up then completely ghosted me with no explanation. She never gave me the approval or declined it and I had told her before I started the process that I wanted to leave early and that it was an important financial decision. It’s just a business to some of these people and students are just assets to milk no matter how much damage they cause I personally liked the more radical idea floated by an article once that loans have some percentage that the university guarantees to hold them accountable to provide a good product at reasonable rates. But they would probably use the massive endowments to pay off every politician to kill that idea if it ever even came out of someone’s mouth
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metaphor
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 193
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Post by metaphor on Jun 16, 2022 10:17:26 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing. Some of the suggestions for reform do exist, but not consistently: 1. 17 states do accept the 3 on the AP test, others do not. 2. Pell Grants are awarded to individuals, not schools, and generally for lower income students. Telling a student they cannot use a Pell Grant at a school would introduce all sorts of legal pushback. 3. A no-frills degree where "students can opt-out of costly services like job placement programs, access to athletic and social facilities, and requirements to live on campus" exists: it's called online education and this platform has largely flatlined over the last 5-7 years. EdX and Coursera were seen as the future and it's been anything but. I've shared a thought previously on this board that if you really want to tackle the cost of a college education, start with the question of why a degree in course requires four years. (In Canada, it's three.) The academic hierarchy of universities, to those whom are suspicious to change in any form, are at odds with this, because it reduces their labor pool. Why would (or does) a degree in computer science need to be the same number of hours as philosophy or economics? The answer is so they can charge for it. As long as a college education is inelastic to the economies of scale, there is no incentive to do otherwise. Harvard has enough endowment to offer free tuition to every student in perpetuity and still have billions left over, yet sees no need to. Thanks for the thoughtful response DFW. A couple of points (My response in Italics. 1. 17 states do accept the 3 on the AP test, others do not. This is true, but only applies to state schools, not private institutions. Texas was an early adopter of this policy for its public universities. Many schools, including Johns Hopkins University, are complete hypocrites on this. For example, Dartmouth banned credit for AP stating students needed the complete Dartmouth experience. Of course the AP courses are still good enough for Dartmouth to let students to opt-in to higher level courses. If your interested in how colleges and universities are increasingly making it difficult for students to get credit for AP, IB, etc. then take a look at a paper I wrote a few years back. www.progressivepolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/MEMO-Weinstein-AP.pdf 2. Pell Grants are awarded to individuals, not schools, and generally for lower income students. Telling a student they cannot use a Pell Grant at a school would introduce all sorts of legal pushback. Of course there would be legal pushback. But there is precedent here. For example, the government restricts where military personnel can use their financial aid--yellow ribbon program is one of several examples. And I wasn't just including Pell Grants. Student loans, the various tax credits, etc.I've shared a thought previously on this board that if you really want to tackle the cost of a college education, start with the question of why a degree in course requires four years. (In Canada, it's three.) The academic hierarchy of universities, to those whom are suspicious to change in any form, are at odds with this, because it reduces their labor pool. Why would (or does) a degree in computer science need to be the same number of hours as philosophy or economics? The answer is so they can charge for it. One hundred percent agree. Please see my many articles and papers on three year degrees. BTW, not just Canada, UK, Australia, and a growing number of European countries that are signatories to the Bologna Accords. www.cnn.com/2015/08/26/opinions/marshall-weinstein-three-year-college/index.html www.progressivepolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2014.09-Weinstein_Give-Our-Kids-A-Break_How-Three-Year-Degrees-Can-Cut-College-Cost.pdf As long as a college education is inelastic to the economies of scale, there is no incentive to do otherwise. Harvard has enough endowment to offer free tuition to every student in perpetuity and still have billions left over, yet sees no need to. Absolutely correct. But one of the reasons that demand is inelastic is student loans and financial aid. Restricting those would help change the dynamics of the market place. Harvard is of course Harvard. But there are just a handful of schools in their position. Most, including Georgetown, would have to adjust. One final thought, schools are starting to feel the impact of demand. This is why they have increased the number of international students they accept who can pay full freight, they are considering increasing class size (see Cornell), and growing their online graduate programs which are big money makers (see Columbia and Hopkins.
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Post by Admin on Jun 25, 2022 13:06:47 GMT -5
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Feb 5, 2023 10:38:38 GMT -5
Syracuse Newhouse and Maxwell schools building downtown DC presence.
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RusskyHoya
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In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Feb 5, 2023 10:57:37 GMT -5
Syracuse Newhouse and Maxwell schools building downtown DC presence. We're entering a golden age of integration with - and lobbying of - Federal entities and spaces by higher ed institutions. Check out this beauty: washingtondc.asu.edu/facilitiesSome relevant DC context here:
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 30, 2023 13:19:22 GMT -5
Link: dc.urbanturf.com/articles/blog/a_new_academic_building_planned_at_georgetown_law_center/20962A New Academic Building Planned at Georgetown Law Center April 28th by UrbanTurf Staff A new academic building is on the boards for Georgetown University's downtown law campus. The 130-foot tall building will take the place of The Sarah and Bernard Gewirz Student Center at 120 F Street NW (map) on the university's Capitol Campus. The building will have five floors of academic space, four floors of office and clinic space, and a penthouse with a convening area. "The first through fourth floors as well one below-grade floor are primarily composed of new classrooms, including one classroom that is sized to function as a moot courtroom," documents filed with DC's Zoning Commission stated. "The fifth through eight floors are primarily composed of office spaces for faculty as well as the Law Center’s clinics, which provide valuable real-world training for law students and direct access to legal services for many underserved District residents." The design of the new building, from Pei Cobb Freed and Partners, includes a multi-story transparent base with the façade along 2nd Street consisting of a series of interlocking curves, and a curvilinear form on the northeast façade of the building. The facade will primarily be made of a glass curtainwall "punctuated by a regular pattern of metal vertical mullions as well as metal spandrel panels between each floor." The project will go before the Zoning Commission in the coming months.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,735
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 30, 2023 14:08:27 GMT -5
Link: dc.urbanturf.com/articles/blog/a_new_academic_building_planned_at_georgetown_law_center/20962A new academic building is on the boards for Georgetown University's downtown law campus. The 130-foot tall building will take the place of The Sarah and Bernard Gewirz Student Center at 120 F Street NW (map) on the university's Capitol Campus. The building will have five floors of academic space, four floors of office and clinic space, and a penthouse with a convening area. I've only been there a few times but the Gewirz building looked fine and, at 30 years old, is practically brand new as GU construction projects go. Two questions: 1. Why would it be torn down? 2. What happens to the 290 law students living there?
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Post by hilltopper2000 on Apr 30, 2023 19:24:16 GMT -5
This surprises me for several reasons:
1. As DFW notes, this is a relatively new building that works very well as far as I can tell. (It certainly did when I lived there 20+ years ago.)
2. It has a small footprint and is the most efficient use of space of any Law Center building.
3. Georgetown has acquired a ton of office/classroom space in the immediate vicinity of the Law Center. Couldn't the Darth Vader building be used for this purpose?
4. The most obvious candidate for redevelopment on the Law Center campus is McDonough, which has a ton of unused vertical space and is old (and architecturally uninspired).
5. The new design is not in keeping with the rest of the Law Center's buildings. It isn't horrible, but is definitely a departure from the McDonough/Hotung/Williams.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on May 1, 2023 19:33:50 GMT -5
Guessing it’s a sign that not too many law students are interested in living in Gewirz these days. 20 years old is not too old for a building, but for a law school living option, it may not be competitive with the private market. (And law students may also be able to live in the new 55 H building).
Seems like Georgetown is buying up every adjacent parcel except the empty Capitol Crossing parcels, perhaps daring those developers to lower their prices enough first. Can’t say that’s a bad overall strategy, even if the Gewirz replacement isn’t a readily-apparent slam dunk.
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Post by LizziebethHoya on May 2, 2023 10:58:55 GMT -5
Have to be honest, nothing about this makes sense. Not sure how much classroom/academic space Georgetown Law thinks it is going to need over the next 50 years, but this seems to be overkill especially considering how much adjacent space the university has purchased over the last decade. In addition, there is a ton of underutilized space in the rest of the law center (you can't tell me each of the 20 journals needs its own multi-room office), and as someone said before, a renovation/addition of old McDonough seems like a more viable option.
Gewirz does house a good number of students, and the other housing options in the area keep going up and up in price.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,597
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Post by RusskyHoya on May 2, 2023 15:27:54 GMT -5
Unclear to me what the demand for various kinds of space on the GULC campus looks like, especially post-Covid. Would be nice to see the intent behind all this laid out more comprehensively. I do think TrueHoyaBlue is correct as far as interest in living in Gewirtz declining. When it was built, large swaths of the surrounding area were still considered 'scary.' We now have tens of thousands of new units within close proximity in Mt. Vernon Triangle, NoMa, etc. It still seems like a shame to remove an option that still had takers, but hard to judge without a fuller sense of the demand, the costs, etc.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,597
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Post by RusskyHoya on May 7, 2023 11:23:07 GMT -5
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Aug 9, 2023 10:37:30 GMT -5
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,597
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 4, 2023 17:11:32 GMT -5
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,597
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 7, 2023 7:50:57 GMT -5
And here are our new downtown rivals:
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Oct 7, 2023 8:10:56 GMT -5
And here are our new downtown rivals: My nephew is in his second year at SAIS and is completing his MA in this building. He really wanted to go to the MSFS program, was admitted, but GU gave him zero $$$ whereas SAIS gave him $40k his first year, renewable for his second year if he maintained a certain GPA. As an aside, on legacy admissions, his GU MSFS application asked if he had any relatives who are Georgetown alum and he listed me and his stepfather. My nephew's reaction: " I'm in!" Yeah, he was in but with no $$$ from GU he opted for SAIS.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,597
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 7, 2023 9:03:14 GMT -5
My nephew is in his second year at SAIS and is completing his MA in this building. He really wanted to go to the MSFS program, was admitted, but GU gave him zero $$$ whereas SAIS gave him $40k his first year, renewable for his second year if he maintained a certain GPA. As an aside, on legacy admissions, his GU MSFS application asked if he had any relatives who are Georgetown alum and he listed me and his stepfather. My nephew's reaction: " I'm in!" Yeah, he was in but with no $$$ from GU he opted for SAIS. That Bloombito dinero goes a long way!
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