iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,402
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Post by iowa80 on Mar 12, 2022 10:53:34 GMT -5
So cynical. Let’s replace a couple of guys and maybe they’ll shut up. Didn’t I notice Waheed drawing up the last play against Seton Hall.? Maybe that did it
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 12, 2022 10:57:02 GMT -5
Not the news that’s going to change the trajectory. Blaming things on the assistants is an insult.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Mar 12, 2022 10:59:26 GMT -5
Well then it's absolutely clear that Ewing is staying. They would never announce that change first if Ewing was gone. Who is "they" in this instance? Ewing's side has been throwing Hail Mary's in the press for the couple weeks. I'm not convinced of anything until we eventually hear from Georgetown. I am not sure what your asking me or saying. You don't think report is accurate?
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,462
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Post by TC on Mar 12, 2022 11:01:05 GMT -5
Who is "they" in this instance? Ewing's side has been throwing Hail Mary's in the press for the couple weeks. I'm not convinced of anything until we eventually hear from Georgetown. I am not sure what your asking me or saying. You don't think report is accurate? I think Waheed and Kirby are out of a job, and I don't know what else ends up happening.
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hoyajmw
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,032
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Post by hoyajmw on Mar 12, 2022 11:14:22 GMT -5
I am not sure what your asking me or saying. You don't think report is accurate? I think Waheed and Kirby are out of a job, and I don't know what else ends up happening. Looks like botched plastic surgery by the administration to me, as feared (threatened?) Hopefully more shoes to drop, but doubt it will be the BIG shoe... And I don't know what any official announcement will look like, BUT I do know this is very unlikely to have been "voluntary" for the purpose of "pursuing other opportunities" (which one pal just separately speculated to me/said maybe they are just fed up themselves). I think it was a required separation for MANY reasons, but one for sure is that Akbar has a frosh at Georgetown Prep who got a lot of run/looks to be a player down the road and I highly doubt (but this is pure speculation) his dad would just decide on his own to walk away from the Hilltop...
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 12, 2022 11:22:39 GMT -5
I wonder who decided that the assistants needed to go and which ones? I would fire that person!
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,607
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Mar 12, 2022 11:22:54 GMT -5
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Post by guru on Mar 12, 2022 11:22:54 GMT -5
I am not sure what your asking me or saying. You don't think report is accurate? I think Waheed and Kirby are out of a job, and I don't know what else ends up happening. Ugh. You may want to move onto the acceptance phase.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,462
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Post by TC on Mar 12, 2022 11:24:39 GMT -5
I think Waheed and Kirby are out of a job, and I don't know what else ends up happening. Ugh. You may want to move onto the acceptance phase. It's Georgetown - this isn't our first rodeo at this and the only thing I've learned from 2004 and 2017 is that no one knows what the hell is going on behind the scenes. Mostly politics.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,391
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Post by drquigley on Mar 12, 2022 11:49:14 GMT -5
The sad thing is that the model is just up the road at Nova. It should be obvious by now that Wright has figured out how to create and maintain a championship caliber college basketball program. I have no idea how he's done it but watching them beat UCONN last night I just kept shaking my head at how talented, composed, and well coached they are -- and have been since Wright took over. More than that, how committed everyone (players, coaches, administration) is to the program. No drama. No wholesale transfers. No one (or two) and dones. I hate them as much as anyone on this Board but why can't we copy what they are doing, perhaps by hiring one of their assistants as our next coach?
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,607
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Post by guru on Mar 12, 2022 12:03:12 GMT -5
Ugh. You may want to move onto the acceptance phase. It's Georgetown - this isn't our first rodeo at this and the only thing I've learned from 2004 and 2017 is that no one knows what the hell is going on behind the scenes. Mostly politics. At this point, things seem a whole lot clearer than they did in 2017. Can’t recall details of 2004, but I remember the statement of support and Esh’s dumb statement afterward. Don’t see that happening here. But I suppose there’s always hope - firing assistants should be a clue that the head coach is staying, but I get the impulse to wish that this nightmare was almost over.
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hoyajmw
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,032
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Post by hoyajmw on Mar 12, 2022 12:06:35 GMT -5
I don't know where people are getting all these ideas about coaches who are turning duds into diamonds. Talent is not the endgame. But it is the ONLY prerequisite. Wright deserves all the credit he gets for keeping his teams near the top every year. But a quick glance and you notice this: 1) He coached 12 years in the old Big East... and finished in the top 3 once. 2) He's now finished first in the new Big East 7 times. The most important factor there is the talent vacuum that was created when LOU/SYR/UCONN/ND/WVU/Cincy/Pitt left, and Nova's superiority there since the start of the new conference. In the most overly simplistic of analyses... he hasn't played with a roster that had less than 5 Top 100 guys in the last dozen seasons. Not to mention the other 4 & high-3 star kids that always litter his lineups. No other program in the new BE has looked like that. As you rightfully point out with JT3's last couple of teams -- there are other factors. But only after you get the pieces you need. Obviously -- getting 5 top 100 forwards means nothing if you don't have an actual point guard. I would love to have traded any one of our forwards (Ike, White, Reggie, Marcus, LJ even) for a startable point guard, and see what kind of difference that would've made. So again: Get the talent, then mold/coach/finesse the team. You simply can't do the latter without the former. Many coaching legends have admitted as much: John Wooden: " No matter how you total success in the coaching profession it all comes down to a single factor - talent. There may be a hundred great coaches of whom you have never heard in basketball, football, or any sport who will probably never receive the acclaim they deserve simply because they have not been blessed with the talent. Although not every coach can win consistently with talent, no coach can win without it." Gio Trapattoni: "a good manager can make a team 10 percent better, a bad manager can make that same team 30 percent worse." The coaching part is SOOOOOOO nebulous and hard to define (how good should we have been?). Why do we feel the need to consider ourselves experts in that department when an obvious answer is staring us in the face? We certainly can agree, to quote the great track coach Sam Mussabini in Chariots of Fire, that “a coach can’t put in what God left out,” and that regardless of the “why’s” the current results are unacceptable. But even if this is all it is, in an individual game or over time, a 40% delta between what a good coach can provide vs a bad one (your figures) is certainly not de minimis — especially when you are talent poor. As to Jay Wright, could be the main cause in fact is better talent but may have a classic chick and egg situation at work here too. Little known fact is that Wooden was at UCLA for 15 years before he made his first final four — in an era relatively easy to do so — and is a famously humble man. So crediting talent rather than pointing to his hard earned coaching chops would be what he would do. Bet we can also agree (to stop on a congenial note) though, that he is unlikely to have said after a game “we had a solid game plan. The players just didn't execute it.”
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 12, 2022 12:39:08 GMT -5
I don't want to make too much of this, NYCHoya94, as I suspect we agree way more than otherwise, but I'll use your comment to jump into a rather fundamental issue I have with PE: if he has talent, he can do OK; but if he doesn't, the sum of the parts adds up to -- at most -- the sum of the parts. At the NBA level, maybe that generally works -- roll the ball out and let the talent take over/let the players play and let the best team win, but at college and HS you need someone who gets MORE out of the players he has through scheme or discipline or just general decision making when it counts. Otherwise the best team/players WILL win and then where are you if that's not you? You're 0-20, that's where you are... There are too many instances, both specific games and generally, where the view from the Hoya bench seems to have been "let the guys play their game/we'll see what happens" -- and we've seen what happens. Letting Dante jack two after two from inside the arc 5 seconds into the play and not look to pass; letting Aminu drive down low and force shot after shot/miss after miss; inserting then pulling Ryan and/or Tyler after throwing them out there for a minute and seeing the predictable mistake trying to play up-tempo, race horse basketball. I mean, the list just goes on and on. The compare/contrast with JTIII really is striking: a very legitimate criticism of III at the end was that he was ALL ABOUT recruitng and then molding the player to HIS schemes (on both ends), which was leading to bad recruiting judgments based on who might "fit" and trouble getting players we wanted regardless to come (so the story went) -- because many high level targets preferred the up and down the court/NBA style, since it was more fun and prepared them better for the next level. So now we have Patrick, who is the anti-JT3 scheme wise, trumpeted and trumpeting as wanting to prepare players for the NBA by letting them go -- and we see what that hath wrought. Of course, it doesn't have to be one or or the other, and elements of both can lead to success (hello, Jay Wright...) The biggest problem, though, with an approach that is based on letting the talent will out is that I simply see neither the needed locally-focused effort nor (apparently) the ability to GET that talent to GU anytime soon with the current regime. Watching the raft of tournament games last night -- from the Big East to the Big Ten to the ACC to the AAC (I have no life) -- shows it isn't just a talent/depth GAP between GU and other really good teams, it is the freakin' Grand Canyon -- and I simply don't see how that gets closed without sending a VERY different signal out into the hoops world I don't know where people are getting all these ideas about coaches who are turning duds into diamonds. Talent is not the endgame. But it is the ONLY prerequisite. Wright deserves all the credit he gets for keeping his teams near the top every year. But a quick glance and you notice this: 1) He coached 12 years in the old Big East... and finished in the top 3 once. 2) He's now finished first in the new Big East 7 times. The most important factor there is the talent vacuum that was created when LOU/SYR/UCONN/ND/WVU/Cincy/Pitt left, and Nova's superiority there since the start of the new conference. In the most overly simplistic of analyses... he hasn't played with a roster that had less than 5 Top 100 guys in the last dozen seasons. Not to mention the other 4 & high-3 star kids that always litter his lineups. No other program in the new BE has looked like that. As you rightfully point out with JT3's last couple of teams -- there are other factors. But only after you get the pieces you need. Obviously -- getting 5 top 100 forwards means nothing if you don't have an actual point guard. I would love to have traded any one of our forwards (Ike, White, Reggie, Marcus, LJ even) for a startable point guard, and see what kind of difference that would've made. So again: Get the talent, then mold/coach/finesse the team. You simply can't do the latter without the former. Many coaching legends have admitted as much: John Wooden: " No matter how you total success in the coaching profession it all comes down to a single factor - talent. There may be a hundred great coaches of whom you have never heard in basketball, football, or any sport who will probably never receive the acclaim they deserve simply because they have not been blessed with the talent. Although not every coach can win consistently with talent, no coach can win without it." Gio Trapattoni: "a good manager can make a team 10 percent better, a bad manager can make that same team 30 percent worse." The coaching part is SOOOOOOO nebulous and hard to define (how good should we have been?). Why do we feel the need to consider ourselves experts in that department when an obvious answer is staring us in the face? You're referring to winning big, whereas I'm referring to playing competent basketball. Of course, a team needs a lot of "talent" to finish at the top of the conference or go far in a tourney, no one is disputing that... I refuse to buy that this is the best any staff could have gotten out of the "talent" on this year's team, as limited as the roster may be it's not a 21 game losing streak bad. How you can ignore the fact that Wright went to two sweet 16's, an Elite 8, and a FF4 in those 12 years surprises me
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Mar 12, 2022 19:28:07 GMT -5
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 12, 2022 19:28:07 GMT -5
So I just looked at my phone and saw the score was 19-18 at half (Nova). This has to be bad offense. Neither team is that good on defense.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 12, 2022 20:23:25 GMT -5
We are so far from the level of basketball displayed in this game. It is sad, annoying, and frustrating at the same time. It’s good that the Big East has kept up a high level of basketball. I just wish our administration took basketball seriously enough to be competitive.
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HoyaNyr320
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Mar 12, 2022 20:23:46 GMT -5
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Mar 12, 2022 20:23:46 GMT -5
So I just looked at my phone and saw the score was 19-18 at half (Nova). This has to be bad offense. Neither team is that good on defense. First team to 50 wins! If you have the over on this one, you most definitely are losing.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 12, 2022 20:53:45 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Mar 12, 2022 20:57:36 GMT -5
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 12, 2022 20:57:36 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 12, 2022 20:59:36 GMT -5
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Mar 12, 2022 21:06:04 GMT -5
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Mar 12, 2022 21:09:50 GMT -5
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