hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Mar 11, 2022 10:26:10 GMT -5
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 11, 2022 10:26:10 GMT -5
rhw thanks for the write up....I would say to not base your following of the team on coaching changes. Base it off player retention. I'm confident that we will be a good team (minimum bubble) if we can retain the major pieced. Minus Aminu. By major pieces I mean DH, JR, JB, RM, CH and TB....Aminu I view as a unexpected bonus. the idea that the same players and coaches who are currently on a 21 game losing streak could somehow be that much better next year is completely insane. I know I know....but I'm almost willing to put a paycheck on you never played organized bball...because if you did it wouldn't be so insane that talented sophomores and juniors would be better than talented freshmen and sophomores...hell we literally saw it happen with Ottos team....but I'm insane.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Mar 11, 2022 10:29:40 GMT -5
rhw thanks for the write up....I would say to not base your following of the team on coaching changes. Base it off player retention. I'm confident that we will be a good team (minimum bubble) if we can retain the major pieced. Minus Aminu. By major pieces I mean DH, JR, JB, RM, CH and TB....Aminu I view as a unexpected bonus. the idea that the same players and coaches who are currently on a 21 game losing streak could somehow be that much better next year is completely insane. "minimum bubble" - that prediction is pretty much like hoyazeke's pre-2022 prediction. If Ewing were back, he would create a non-conference schedule so weak it'd be impossible to be a bubble team - it's going to be like 2017-2018 where we had one of the worst out-of-conference SOS in D1 basketball. Does anyone think that a Coach on an extremely hot seat who somehow survives a 0-20 record is going to schedule Quad 1 or Quad 2 non-conference games?
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Mar 11, 2022 10:46:26 GMT -5
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 11, 2022 10:46:26 GMT -5
the idea that the same players and coaches who are currently on a 21 game losing streak could somehow be that much better next year is completely insane. "minimum bubble" - that prediction is pretty much like hoyazeke's pre-2022 prediction. If Ewing were back, he would create a non-conference schedule so weak it'd be impossible to be a bubble team - it's going to be like 2017-2018 where we had one of the worst out-of-conference SOS in D1 basketball. Does anyone think that a Coach on an extremely hot seat who somehow survives a 0-20 record is going to schedule Quad 1 or Quad 2 non-conference games? Yeah but I really didn't take into account how much the extra Covid year would help others and hurt us. I get your point but that won't be the case next year.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Mar 11, 2022 10:59:47 GMT -5
That situation did hurt the Hoyas a LOT. It is what it is, but it was a thorn in our side.
And I am glad that Pickett, Bile, and Blair did not stick around. They did what was best for them.
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Mar 11, 2022 11:18:50 GMT -5
the idea that the same players and coaches who are currently on a 21 game losing streak could somehow be that much better next year is completely insane. I know I know....but I'm almost willing to put a paycheck on you never played organized bball...because if you did it wouldn't be so insane that talented sophomores and juniors would be better than talented freshmen and sophomores...hell we literally saw it happen with Ottos team....but I'm insane. We were a 3 seed in the ncaa tournament in Otto’s freshman year and a 2 seed in his sophomore year. And the next year we brought back the same team a year older minus Otto and were much worse. Not exactly apples to apples.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Mar 11, 2022 11:29:15 GMT -5
the idea that the same players and coaches who are currently on a 21 game losing streak could somehow be that much better next year is completely insane. I know I know....but I'm almost willing to put a paycheck on you never played organized bball...because if you did it wouldn't be so insane that talented sophomores and juniors would be better than talented freshmen and sophomores...hell we literally saw it happen with Ottos team....but I'm insane. Are you suggesting the 2012 team was similar to 2022?
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hoyajmw
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Post by hoyajmw on Mar 11, 2022 11:41:32 GMT -5
If Ewing were back, he would create a non-conference schedule so weak it'd be impossible to be a bubble team - it's going to be like 2017-2018 where we had one of the worst out-of-conference SOS in D1 basketball. Does anyone think that a Coach on an extremely hot seat who somehow survives a 0-20 record is going to schedule Quad 1 or Quad 2 non-conference games? That PE first year Hoyas’ out of conference strength of schedule was 330th out of 355 in the country as I recall, put together to ease him into coaching and protect his ego. Think we also withdrew from participating in the much anticipated, prestigious Nike tournament for the same reasons. I think 330 is a decent over/under number on what next year’s schedule may look like if he’s back. The ONLY real hope for decent games (i.e. ones that would have a chance to fill even McDonough) next year without a change at the top will stem from whatever contractual commitments we may have to play teams and where he can’t weasel out — despite what doubtless will be Herculean efforts to do so… And if one think Dartmouth was a weak opener, I’m thinking Delaware State may open the dancecard next year (which also was not only winless in the MEAC regular season but also lost its opening round tourney game, so can you imagine the story lines going into that one?).
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 11, 2022 11:45:19 GMT -5
If Ewing were back, he would create a non-conference schedule so weak it'd be impossible to be a bubble team - it's going to be like 2017-2018 where we had one of the worst out-of-conference SOS in D1 basketball. Does anyone think that a Coach on an extremely hot seat who somehow survives a 0-20 record is going to schedule Quad 1 or Quad 2 non-conference games? That PE first year Hoyas’ out of conference strength of schedule was 330th out of 355 in the country as I recall, put together to ease him into coaching and protect his ego. Think we also withdrew from participating in the much anticipated, prestigious Nike tournament for the same reasons. I think 330 is a decent over/under number on what next year’s schedule may look like if he’s back. The ONLY real hope for decent games (i.e. ones that would have a chance to fill even McDonough) next year without a change at the top will stem from whatever contractual commitments we may have to play teams and where he can’t weasel out — despite what doubtless will be Herculean efforts to do so… And if one think Dartmouth was a weak opener, I’m thinking Delaware State may open the dancecard next year (which also was not only winless in the MEAC regular season but also lost its opening round tourney game, so can you imagine the story lines going into that one?). St. Leo is back, baby!!!!!!
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 11, 2022 11:54:37 GMT -5
That PE first year Hoyas’ out of conference strength of schedule was 330th out of 355 in the country as I recall, put together to ease him into coaching and protect his ego. Think we also withdrew from participating in the much anticipated, prestigious Nike tournament for the same reasons. I think 330 is a decent over/under number on what next year’s schedule may look like if he’s back. The ONLY real hope for decent games (i.e. ones that would have a chance to fill even McDonough) next year without a change at the top will stem from whatever contractual commitments we may have to play teams and where he can’t weasel out — despite what doubtless will be Herculean efforts to do so… And if one think Dartmouth was a weak opener, I’m thinking Delaware State may open the dancecard next year (which also was not only winless in the MEAC regular season but also lost its opening round tourney game, so can you imagine the story lines going into that one?). St. Leo is back, baby!!!!!! Or Stonehill! We in the pep band often referred to St Leo's as the patron saint of Hoya basketball. 😀
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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 11, 2022 11:58:21 GMT -5
For a team that couldn't beat Dartmouth or St. Joe's this season, I think the OOC schedule is the least of our worries for next season. Just find someone at the D-1 level you can beat comfortably and go from there. If in February/March 2023 we're complaining about having torpedoed our at-large hopes with a weak OOC schedule, then at least it means did something considerably better than 0-20 in the BE. Given the likely low magnitude of changes forthcoming, sadly I'd be OK with that scenario.
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Mar 11, 2022 12:06:52 GMT -5
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 11, 2022 12:06:52 GMT -5
For a team that couldn't beat Dartmouth or St. Joe's this season, I think the OOC schedule is the least of our worries for next season. Just find someone at the D-1 level you can beat comfortably and go from there. If in February/March 2023 we're complaining about having torpedoed our at-large hopes with a weak OOC schedule, then at least it means did something considerably better than 0-20 in the BE. Given the likely low magnitude of changes forthcoming, sadly I'd be OK with that scenario. MEAC
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 11, 2022 12:10:18 GMT -5
For a team that couldn't beat Dartmouth or St. Joe's this season, I think the OOC schedule is the least of our worries for next season. Just find someone at the D-1 level you can beat comfortably and go from there. If in February/March 2023 we're complaining about having torpedoed our at-large hopes with a weak OOC schedule, then at least it means did something considerably better than 0-20 in the BE. Given the likely low magnitude of changes forthcoming, sadly I'd be OK with that scenario. Please don't take this the wrong way, RockawayHoya - but this mindset is exactly what DeGioia will be banking on if they run it back with Ewing. Sad state of affairs for a once proud basketball program and university...
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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 11, 2022 12:17:46 GMT -5
For a team that couldn't beat Dartmouth or St. Joe's this season, I think the OOC schedule is the least of our worries for next season. Just find someone at the D-1 level you can beat comfortably and go from there. If in February/March 2023 we're complaining about having torpedoed our at-large hopes with a weak OOC schedule, then at least it means did something considerably better than 0-20 in the BE. Given the likely low magnitude of changes forthcoming, sadly I'd be OK with that scenario. Please don't take this the wrong way, RockawayHoya - but this mindset is exactly what DeGioia will be banking on if they run it back with Ewing. Sad state of affairs for a once proud basketball program and university... Oh I completely agree 100%. I have made my stance on a full reboot vs. swapping assistants vs. running it back very clear. But assuming it's one of the latter 2 options, is there a difference between going 3-28 with a joke OOC schedule vs. 6-25 with a middle of the road OOC one? It won't matter either way.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Mar 11, 2022 12:35:02 GMT -5
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 11, 2022 12:35:02 GMT -5
I know I know....but I'm almost willing to put a paycheck on you never played organized bball...because if you did it wouldn't be so insane that talented sophomores and juniors would be better than talented freshmen and sophomores...hell we literally saw it happen with Ottos team....but I'm insane. Are you suggesting the 2012 team was similar to 2022? Nope....I'm suggesting that maybe 2023 could be similar to 2013....
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Mar 11, 2022 12:38:59 GMT -5
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 11, 2022 12:38:59 GMT -5
I know I know....but I'm almost willing to put a paycheck on you never played organized bball...because if you did it wouldn't be so insane that talented sophomores and juniors would be better than talented freshmen and sophomores...hell we literally saw it happen with Ottos team....but I'm insane. We were a 3 seed in the ncaa tournament in Otto’s freshman year and a 2 seed in his sophomore year. And the next year we brought back the same team a year older minus Otto and were much worse. Not exactly apples to apples. Led by Hank, Jason and Hollis.....but 2013 was led by Jr Kel, and Sophs....not the same but similar. Especially if Aminu does come back for a sophomore year.
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Mar 11, 2022 12:42:43 GMT -5
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Mar 11, 2022 12:42:43 GMT -5
We were a 3 seed in the ncaa tournament in Otto’s freshman year and a 2 seed in his sophomore year. And the next year we brought back the same team a year older minus Otto and were much worse. Not exactly apples to apples. Led by Hank, Jason and Hollis.....but 2013 was led by Jr Kel, and Sophs....not the same but similar. Especially if Aminu does come back for a sophomore year. In order for us to come anywhere near the leap you are talking about we first need to get our defense to a respectable level. This staff has not demonstrated the ability to put a good defense on the floor outside of the tail end of last season. My expectations for our roster would jump considerably if we brought in a coach with a history of coaching up defenses
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hoyazeke
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Mar 11, 2022 12:47:29 GMT -5
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 11, 2022 12:47:29 GMT -5
Led by Hank, Jason and Hollis.....but 2013 was led by Jr Kel, and Sophs....not the same but similar. Especially if Aminu does come back for a sophomore year. In order for us to come anywhere near the leap you are talking about we first need to get our defense to a respectable level. This staff has not demonstrated the ability to put a good defense on the floor outside of the tail end of last season. My expectations for our roster would jump considerably if we brought in a coach with a history of coaching up defenses I agree 95%. Some of it is also the freshmen understanding what they should be doing. Most freshmen don't get that they can't get away with what they got away with in HS. I don't believe it's all coaching. I agree that Ewing shouldn't say these things publicly but the freshmen really struggled...
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Mar 11, 2022 12:51:54 GMT -5
Are you suggesting the 2012 team was similar to 2022? Nope....I'm suggesting that maybe 2023 could be similar to 2013.... And, with the same coaches and players, this is completely insane.
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Post by practice on Mar 11, 2022 12:58:09 GMT -5
Please don't take this the wrong way, RockawayHoya - but this mindset is exactly what DeGioia will be banking on if they run it back with Ewing. Sad state of affairs for a once proud basketball program and university... Oh I completely agree 100%. I have made my stance on a full reboot vs. swapping assistants vs. running it back very clear. But assuming it's one of the latter 2 options, is there a difference between going 3-28 with a joke OOC schedule vs. 6-25 with a middle of the road OOC one? It won't matter either way. So depressing ... putting up essentially wins with no value to prop up the coach's terrible W-L record ... not that they were ever too close to a real bubble, but the Ewing-era Hoyas OOC schedules make going anything less than 11-9 or 12-8 or better in the BE a MUST to get an at large bid ... it's crazy. We all forget but between the 1978-79 season and 1991-92, the Hoyas went to the NCAAs every year and they only missed one year through the 1996-1997 season. Then starting in JT3's 2nd season, the Hoyas make the NCAAs 8 out of 10 seasons between 2005-06 and 2014-15. How far we've fallen ...
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hoyazeke
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Mar 11, 2022 13:13:24 GMT -5
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 11, 2022 13:13:24 GMT -5
Nope....I'm suggesting that maybe 2023 could be similar to 2013.... And, with the same coaches and players, this is completely insane. 👍🏼
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