Why Villanova? Why Not Georgetown?

[beenaround]

Serious Question. Other than Jay Wright and possibly a campus arena for some games, why is Nova so much better than us?

[hoyaduck]

I mean Jay Wright is a pretty huge piece in that puzzle.

[augustusfinknottle]

There is no “other than Jay Wright”. He is the answer. Although it has been reported that they blundered into one National Championship before was hired Villanova was a perennial “also ran” in the Big East. Their on campus arena is no bargain. Their student body, however, on the whole is much more athletics conscious than ours. If you drive through the campus you’ll see a majority of them wearing some type of athletic wear.

Wright had been an assistant to Massimino. He became the head coach at Hofstra and had success. Steve Lappas, Villanova’s coach, was neither successful nor loved. Many ‘nova insiders were clamoring for Wright to be hired. The Villanova administration could not have been considered proactive or prescient. Lappas had one more year on his contract and although it was common knowledge he would not be renewed, rather than eat it, they would have let it play out. Wright was all set to take the Rutgers job.

Lappas, however, reading the handwriting on the wall, left Villanova early and signed with UMass. Villanova lucked into Wright and the rest (2 National Championships, surge in applications, money pouring in, massive construction…..) is history. Call it fate.

[johnnysnowplow]

Yea there really only is one answer to this question and it’s the head coach.

He and JTIII were on very similar trajectories early in their careers. Wright had a bit of a rough patch for a few years in the early 2010s or so and JTIII hit his a few years later. The difference is Wright was able to…right the ship…pretty quickly but III continued on a downward trajectory.

And the rest as they say is history.

[DFW HOYA]

Feb 8, 2022 16:18:30 GMT -5 beenaround said:

Serious Question. Other than Jay Wright and possibly a campus arena for some games, why is Nova so much better than us?

Serious question, and deserves a longer response.

There's a phrase Jon Rothstein uses when citing Villanova. He calls it "A Fortune 500 Company." The results are there, sure, but so to is the laser focus on results-oriented branding. Wright is very adept at building the brand while he builds the team. This is not the Villanova brand of Steve Lappas or Rollie Massimino. The results support the brand and the brand supports the results.

Villanova Basketball aligns with Villanova University. There is a disconnect between Georgetown Basketball and Georgetown University. In some ways the University has outgrown the team and in other ways the basketball program has distanced itself from the University. I think of that when that 30 second Georgetown commercial comes on a halftime. If you knew nothing of GU, you'd think it was some combination of the well to do walking to Capitol Hill, arguing politics, and watching Rangila, which 98% of the FS1 audience (and a lot of alumni pre-1995) have no idea what it is. Basketball is an afterthought. It is not part of the fabric of campus life, especially when students are kept at arms-length from their fellow students in the jerseys.

What's the Georgetown "brand" in 2022? Is it still John Thompson?

The Villanova brand is more nuanced and takes its cues from Duke. Duke's #1 audience is not alumni, donors, or local residents--it's students. Why? Because today's students are tomorrow's season ticket holders, tomorrow's donors. Give students a positive experience for four years and you get 40 years of goodwill. In some part, it's why all these Hoya alumni from 1964-1972 still keep coming back--they had a positive experience with basketball at Georgetown regardless what the record was. Villanova is doing the same. By contrast, How many Georgetown alumni since 2013 are season ticket holders? How many give to the Hoop Club?

Branding is also about reach. Jay Wright is posting to social media daily and he's got 100,000 followers. Patrick Ewing has posted twice in the last 60 days.

Yes, there are plenty of tactical issues too. Jay Wright is willing to recruit locally, even for less heralded players, to play the long game. Ewing casts an incredibly wide net and will literally pick up prospects with no ties to the school over local products, even if they were bound for the bench for two or three years. Eight players on the Villanova roster live within an hour of campus. The last two years of GU recruits were from high schools in 11 different states. Winning national titles raise all boats, but schools can still drive tremendous regional loyalty without titles. Creighton has not advanced past the round of 16 in over 80 years and are sixth nationally in attendance, driven by alumni. Georgetown has 50,000 alumni within an hour of Capital One Arena. How many were there anytime this season?

Jeff Goodman said it last night on John Fanta's podcast: this is still the best job in the Big East--most writers will say it if you ask, and probably a lot of coaches, too. But it's still being run the way it did way back when. Not all of this is Ewing's doing--he inherited it. If Villanova is A Fortune 500 Company, Georgetown is still The Family Business, and what happens in the family stays in the family. And that worked for many years. But in 2022 the basketball office doesn't drive the connection with the University the way it could, and Georgetown University doesn't drive the connection with basketball the way it should.

[hoyas212]

Ultimately, it's Jay Wright, their 2 recent titles, and putting players in the NBA (though GU has done well here with Yurtseven and Pickett).  If both programs were starting from scratch tomorrow, the infrastructure is pretty similar:  The Thompson Center and Finneran Pavilion are pretty comparable as practice facilities, play in the same conference, similar player housing, similar proximity to high school talent, play primarily off campus most years, similarly sized student bodies, budgets are probably pretty similar, somewhat similar campus life and locations.  

Wright runs the program much better than Georgetown does.  He has hired highly regarded assistants like Baker Dunleavy and Kyle Neptune who've moved onto head coaching jobs, he uses the DOBO position correctly - a role for a young assistant like Mike Nardi who can then transition to an assistant job when one opens.  John Shackleton is a highly regarded strength and performance coach who only works with men's basketball - they aren't spending $ on one of Rollie's relatives to be a MIA chief of staff.  They've retained and developed players, which allowed them to win 2 recent NCAA titles and pays dividends for years in terms of grabbing recruits' attention.  That resume allows you to beat out a UNC for Cam Whitmore, whereas Georgetown has a big uphill battle for RJ Davis when UNC offers.

[hoopsmccan]

Feb 8, 2022 17:37:42 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Feb 8, 2022 16:18:30 GMT -5 beenaround said:

Serious Question. Other than Jay Wright and possibly a campus arena for some games, why is Nova so much better than us?

Serious question, and deserves a longer response.

There's a phrase Jon Rothstein uses when citing Villanova. He calls it "A Fortune 500 Company." The results are there, sure, but so to is the laser focus on results-oriented branding. Wright is very adept at building the brand while he builds the team. This is not the Villanova brand of Steve Lappas or Rollie Massimino. The results support the brand and the brand supports the results.

Villanova Basketball aligns with Villanova University. There is a disconnect between Georgetown Basketball and Georgetown University. In some ways the University has outgrown the team and in other ways the basketball program has distanced itself from the University. I think of that when that 30 second Georgetown commercial comes on a halftime. If you knew nothing of GU, you'd think it was some combination of the well to do walking to Capitol Hill, arguing politics, and watching Rangila, which 98% of the FS1 audience (and a lot of alumni pre-1995) have no idea what it is. Basketball is an afterthought. It is not part of the fabric of campus life, especially when students are kept at arms-length from their fellow students in the jerseys.

What's the Georgetown "brand" in 2022? Is it still John Thompson?

The Villanova brand is more nuanced and takes its cues from Duke. Duke's #1 audience is not alumni, donors, or local residents--it's students. Why? Because today's students are tomorrow's season ticket holders, tomorrow's donors. Give students a positive experience for four years and you get 40 years of goodwill. In some part, it's why all these Hoya alumni from 1964-1972 still keep coming back--they had a positive experience with basketball at Georgetown regardless what the record was. Villanova is doing the same. By contrast, How many Georgetown alumni since 2013 are season ticket holders? How many give to the Hoop Club?

Branding is also about reach. Jay Wright is posting to social media daily and he's got 100,000 followers. Patrick Ewing has posted twice in the last 60 days.

Yes, there are plenty of tactical issues too. Jay Wright is willing to recruit locally, even for less heralded players, to play the long game. Ewing casts an incredibly wide net and will literally pick up prospects with no ties to the school over local products, even if they were bound for the bench for two or three years. Eight players on the Villanova roster live within an hour of campus. The last two years of GU recruits were from high schools in 11 different states. Winning national titles raise all boats, but schools can still drive tremendous regional loyalty without titles. Creighton has not advanced past the round of 16 in over 80 years and are sixth nationally in attendance, driven by alumni. Georgetown has 50,000 alumni within an hour of Capital One Arena. How many were there anytime this season?

Jeff Goodman said it last night on John Fanta's podcast: this is still the best job in the Big East--most writers will say it if you ask, and probably a lot of coaches, too. But it's still being run the way it did way back when. Not all of this is Ewing's doing--he inherited it. If Villanova is A Fortune 500 Company, Georgetown is still The Family Business, and what happens in the family stays in the family. And that worked for many years. But in 2022 the basketball office doesn't drive the connection with the University the way it could, and Georgetown University doesn't drive the connection with basketball the way it should.

Interesting perspective, thank you DFW. I like the Fortune 500/Family Business analogy...hopefully the next coach, whenever/whomever that may be, can overhaul some of the dynamics that keep us in the Family Business model. A dedicated communication professional can develop branding and fix social media outreach pretty quickly, with the coach being as involved as they chose to be. Now coming up with branding/messaging isn't hard, having it stick and resonate relies heavily on success. Hard to brand 10-11 place finishes in the BE. I wish Ewing demanded a real communication team when he started.

hm

[iowa80]

Let's make clear that I appreciate DFW's explanation as well, but also am attracted to the chicken and egg story. Wright won 20+ his fourth year at Nova. They've had the aforementioned recent two titles in addition to that awful night in Lexington KY. To me, the brand stems from the winning, and Jay Wright is the reason for the winning. So, Wright, winning, brand. Us oldsters remember the the Hoyas had a brand in the '80s because . . . Big John, winning.

[bigskyhoya]

These are some of the most illuminating, and sobering, posts I’ve ever read on HT. The blueprint is there, we don’t have to invent it, but will GU ever change?

[johnnysnowplow]

Feb 8, 2022 17:37:42 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Feb 8, 2022 16:18:30 GMT -5 beenaround said:

Serious Question. Other than Jay Wright and possibly a campus arena for some games, why is Nova so much better than us?

Serious question, and deserves a longer response.

There's a phrase Jon Rothstein uses when citing Villanova. He calls it "A Fortune 500 Company." The results are there, sure, but so to is the laser focus on results-oriented branding. Wright is very adept at building the brand while he builds the team. This is not the Villanova brand of Steve Lappas or Rollie Massimino. The results support the brand and the brand supports the results.

Villanova Basketball aligns with Villanova University. There is a disconnect between Georgetown Basketball and Georgetown University. In some ways the University has outgrown the team and in other ways the basketball program has distanced itself from the University. I think of that when that 30 second Georgetown commercial comes on a halftime. If you knew nothing of GU, you'd think it was some combination of the well to do walking to Capitol Hill, arguing politics, and watching Rangila, which 98% of the FS1 audience (and a lot of alumni pre-1995) have no idea what it is. Basketball is an afterthought. It is not part of the fabric of campus life, especially when students are kept at arms-length from their fellow students in the jerseys.

What's the Georgetown "brand" in 2022? Is it still John Thompson?

The Villanova brand is more nuanced and takes its cues from Duke. Duke's #1 audience is not alumni, donors, or local residents--it's students. Why? Because today's students are tomorrow's season ticket holders, tomorrow's donors. Give students a positive experience for four years and you get 40 years of goodwill. In some part, it's why all these Hoya alumni from 1964-1972 still keep coming back--they had a positive experience with basketball at Georgetown regardless what the record was. Villanova is doing the same. By contrast, How many Georgetown alumni since 2013 are season ticket holders? How many give to the Hoop Club?

Branding is also about reach. Jay Wright is posting to social media daily and he's got 100,000 followers. Patrick Ewing has posted twice in the last 60 days.

Yes, there are plenty of tactical issues too. Jay Wright is willing to recruit locally, even for less heralded players, to play the long game. Ewing casts an incredibly wide net and will literally pick up prospects with no ties to the school over local products, even if they were bound for the bench for two or three years. Eight players on the Villanova roster live within an hour of campus. The last two years of GU recruits were from high schools in 11 different states. Winning national titles raise all boats, but schools can still drive tremendous regional loyalty without titles. Creighton has not advanced past the round of 16 in over 80 years and are sixth nationally in attendance, driven by alumni. Georgetown has 50,000 alumni within an hour of Capital One Arena. How many were there anytime this season?

Jeff Goodman said it last night on John Fanta's podcast: this is still the best job in the Big East--most writers will say it if you ask, and probably a lot of coaches, too. But it's still being run the way it did way back when. Not all of this is Ewing's doing--he inherited it. If Villanova is A Fortune 500 Company, Georgetown is still The Family Business, and what happens in the family stays in the family. And that worked for many years. But in 2022 the basketball office doesn't drive the connection with the University the way it could, and Georgetown University doesn't drive the connection with basketball the way it should.

This is brilliant. Well done.

[drquigley]

I think Nova gives us the blueprint for how to Develop and Maintain a successful program but I think JT2 showed us how to Create a program from scratch. Read I Came As A Shadow. Simply, find a local DMV guy, preferably black, who has the connections, coaching smarts, and an insane drive to succeed. He’s going to be going head to head with Jay Wright for local recruits so he also has to have a feel for what makes these kids tick and make sure to find kids who fit the mold of his system and not just hotshots who expect to be in the NBA in two years. Wrights experience with Quinerley should be an example of what not to do. Finally, I would strongly advise against hiring an older, experienced, white guy unless his name Rick Pitino.

[beenaround]

Feb 8, 2022 17:37:42 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Feb 8, 2022 16:18:30 GMT -5 beenaround said:

Serious Question. Other than Jay Wright and possibly a campus arena for some games, why is Nova so much better than us?

Serious question, and deserves a longer response.

There's a phrase Jon Rothstein uses when citing Villanova. He calls it "A Fortune 500 Company." The results are there, sure, but so to is the laser focus on results-oriented branding. Wright is very adept at building the brand while he builds the team. This is not the Villanova brand of Steve Lappas or Rollie Massimino. The results support the brand and the brand supports the results.

Villanova Basketball aligns with Villanova University. There is a disconnect between Georgetown Basketball and Georgetown University. In some ways the University has outgrown the team and in other ways the basketball program has distanced itself from the University. I think of that when that 30 second Georgetown commercial comes on a halftime. If you knew nothing of GU, you'd think it was some combination of the well to do walking to Capitol Hill, arguing politics, and watching Rangila, which 98% of the FS1 audience (and a lot of alumni pre-1995) have no idea what it is. Basketball is an afterthought. It is not part of the fabric of campus life, especially when students are kept at arms-length from their fellow students in the jerseys.

What's the Georgetown "brand" in 2022? Is it still John Thompson?

The Villanova brand is more nuanced and takes its cues from Duke. Duke's #1 audience is not alumni, donors, or local residents--it's students. Why? Because today's students are tomorrow's season ticket holders, tomorrow's donors. Give students a positive experience for four years and you get 40 years of goodwill. In some part, it's why all these Hoya alumni from 1964-1972 still keep coming back--they had a positive experience with basketball at Georgetown regardless what the record was. Villanova is doing the same. By contrast, How many Georgetown alumni since 2013 are season ticket holders? How many give to the Hoop Club?

Branding is also about reach. Jay Wright is posting to social media daily and he's got 100,000 followers. Patrick Ewing has posted twice in the last 60 days.

Yes, there are plenty of tactical issues too. Jay Wright is willing to recruit locally, even for less heralded players, to play the long game. Ewing casts an incredibly wide net and will literally pick up prospects with no ties to the school over local products, even if they were bound for the bench for two or three years. Eight players on the Villanova roster live within an hour of campus. The last two years of GU recruits were from high schools in 11 different states. Winning national titles raise all boats, but schools can still drive tremendous regional loyalty without titles. Creighton has not advanced past the round of 16 in over 80 years and are sixth nationally in attendance, driven by alumni. Georgetown has 50,000 alumni within an hour of Capital One Arena. How many were there anytime this season?

Jeff Goodman said it last night on John Fanta's podcast: this is still the best job in the Big East--most writers will say it if you ask, and probably a lot of coaches, too. But it's still being run the way it did way back when. Not all of this is Ewing's doing--he inherited it. If Villanova is A Fortune 500 Company, Georgetown is still The Family Business, and what happens in the family stays in the family. And that worked for many years. But in 2022 the basketball office doesn't drive the connection with the University the way it could, and Georgetown University doesn't drive the connection with basketball the way it should.

Wow. Agree and much appreciated!

[Deleted]

Feb 8, 2022 17:06:18 GMT -5 augustusfinknottle said:

There is no “other than Jay Wright”. He is the answer. Although it has been reported that they blundered into one National Championship before was hired Villanova was a perennial “also ran” in the Big East. Their on campus arena is no bargain. Their student body, however, on the whole is much more athletics conscious than ours. If you drive through the campus you’ll see a majority of them wearing some type of athletic wear.

Wright had been an assistant to Massimino. He became the head coach at Hofstra and had success. Steve Lappas, Villanova’s coach, was neither successful nor loved. Many ‘nova insiders were clamoring for Wright to be hired. The Villanova administration could not have been considered proactive or prescient. Lappas had one more year on his contract and although it was common knowledge he would not be renewed, rather than eat it, they would have let it play out. Wright was all set to take the Rutgers job.

Lappas, however, reading the handwriting on the wall, left Villanova early and signed with UMass. Villanova lucked into Wright and the rest (2 National Championships, surge in applications, money pouring in, massive construction…..) is history. Call it fate.

I read this and my immediate old brain thought was “sounds kinda right”.  Except how many view the following first 5 year program results as not “successful”:

yr 1 | 8-19 (3-15 in BE)
yr 2 | 20-12 (10-8), NIT champs
yr 3 | 25-8 (14-4), lose 1st round NCAAs
yr 4 | 26-7 (14-4), lose NCAA 2nd round
yr 5 | 24-10 (12-6), lose NCAA 2nd round

[RBHoya]

I agree with pretty much everything written in this thread. But I also just want to underscore the impact that a single recruit, Josh Hart, had in the fortunes of the two programs diverging.

I remember posting on Hoyatalk once (somewhere around 2008 or 2009 maybe?) and suggesting that it was debatable who was the better coach, Wright or JTIII. And I was pretty overwhelmingly shot down--how could I suggest that Wright was as good as our guy?? JT3 was, of course, still beloved around here in those years. Even after Davidson, he could do no wrong.

And JT3 clearly ran into some issues of his own apart from the mistake with Hart. The high profile Davidson loss and a total s--ting of the bed against Ohio sandwiched an awful '08-'09 campaign. The kerfuffle between DC Assault and Team Thompson when Jeff went pro soured a lot of relationships with local AAU power brokers, which led JT3 to have to recruit either different parts of the country (Hollis, Nate L, Tyler Adams, et. al) or locals without strong AAU ties (Markel, Bennimon, Whittington, etc.). It all combined to just sap the program of momentum and energy in the first half of last decade, leading ultimately to III's downfall.

But really, so much might have been fixed if he had taken Hart, who wanted to be a Hoya, came to tons of our games and always sat behind the bench with a Georgetown hat on. He was right there for us. But JTIII wanted "shooters" (heavy air quotes around that word). So he took a commitment from Stephen Domingo from California in May of 2012, and Reggie Cameron from NJ in September of 2012, both of whom were supposedly elite shooters. There wasn't room for another wing, and so Hart committed to Villanova in October of 2012. Of course Hart went on to be first team All America and led Villanova to a national championship. Neither Domingo nor Cameron made any significant impact for us. Though there were of course other issues at play, it always felt like that decision really exacerbated the decline of Georgetown over those years, which led to the fall of III, which led to the hiring of Patrick, which led to where we are today. At the same time it dramatically accelerated the rise of Villanova and Wright's ascendance to Hall of Fame status. In an alternate universe where JTIII handles Hart differently, where do the two programs stand today?

And by the way Kris Jenkins was a closely related example. We didn't pursue him either, selecting Domingo and Cameron instead. And hoyatalk (for the most part) HATED Jenkins as a recruit, calling him "a fat tweener". RDF--whatever happened to that guy?--was the most vocal IIRC. He wasn't a program altering recruit like Hart, but had a nice career at Nova and hit one of the biggest shots in college basketball history.

DFW mentioned the "brand" that Wright has built and it's true, but III had elements of that in his early years too. We were "the evolution of Big Man U", and "Princeton Offense on Steroids" and all that. Maybe some of that doesn't sound so great in retrospect, but at the time it was all complimentary. Watch the 2006 Duke game, back cutting the #1 team to death. Guys like Jeff and Greg going all conference and getting picked in the lottery. It wasn't your father's "Big Man U", focused on shotblocking and dunking and intimidation. It was a more cerebral approach to the game, led by a cerebral man (and Princeton Grad!), facing the basket from the top of the key, seeing the floor, making good passes, even shooting from distance when appropriate. All of which, by the way, is still pretty in vogue in the Association. We never solidified our brand to the level Wright has of course, since we never had that level of success, but the makings were there in the early JT3 years.

Asking why Villanova is where they are and we aren't is really tantamount to asking "Why the heck did things go south for JT3 when his early years were so promising?" Because there was a time--that feels like not all that long ago!--when 90% of our fans wouldn't dream of trading our coach for Wright. But for a variety of reasons the wheels came off for III, and his successor just hasn't been up to the task.

[hoyainla]

A college basketball coach has more influence on their team's results than any single position in major sports. He is the coach and GM. He can go see every player he recruits in person and talk to them. It's only 13 guys total and you really only have to get about 8 of them right in any one year. You really don't need fans to buy in although that comes with winning. You just have to be able to identify good players and put them in a system to succeed. Ewing has all the exterior resources a college coach needs to be reasonably successful and he is not doing it and Jay Wright is. It really is that simple.

[EtomicB]

Feb 8, 2022 17:37:42 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Feb 8, 2022 16:18:30 GMT -5 beenaround said:

Serious Question. Other than Jay Wright and possibly a campus arena for some games, why is Nova so much better than us?

Serious question, and deserves a longer response.

There's a phrase Jon Rothstein uses when citing Villanova. He calls it "A Fortune 500 Company." The results are there, sure, but so to is the laser focus on results-oriented branding. Wright is very adept at building the brand while he builds the team. This is not the Villanova brand of Steve Lappas or Rollie Massimino. The results support the brand and the brand supports the results.

Villanova Basketball aligns with Villanova University. There is a disconnect between Georgetown Basketball and Georgetown University. In some ways the University has outgrown the team and in other ways the basketball program has distanced itself from the University. I think of that when that 30 second Georgetown commercial comes on a halftime. If you knew nothing of GU, you'd think it was some combination of the well to do walking to Capitol Hill, arguing politics, and watching Rangila, which 98% of the FS1 audience (and a lot of alumni pre-1995) have no idea what it is. Basketball is an afterthought. It is not part of the fabric of campus life, especially when students are kept at arms-length from their fellow students in the jerseys.

What's the Georgetown "brand" in 2022? Is it still John Thompson?

The Villanova brand is more nuanced and takes its cues from Duke. Duke's #1 audience is not alumni, donors, or local residents--it's students. Why? Because today's students are tomorrow's season ticket holders, tomorrow's donors. Give students a positive experience for four years and you get 40 years of goodwill. In some part, it's why all these Hoya alumni from 1964-1972 still keep coming back--they had a positive experience with basketball at Georgetown regardless what the record was. Villanova is doing the same. By contrast, How many Georgetown alumni since 2013 are season ticket holders? How many give to the Hoop Club?

Branding is also about reach. Jay Wright is posting to social media daily and he's got 100,000 followers. Patrick Ewing has posted twice in the last 60 days.

Yes, there are plenty of tactical issues too. Jay Wright is willing to recruit locally, even for less heralded players, to play the long game. Ewing casts an incredibly wide net and will literally pick up prospects with no ties to the school over local products, even if they were bound for the bench for two or three years. Eight players on the Villanova roster live within an hour of campus. The last two years of GU recruits were from high schools in 11 different states. Winning national titles raise all boats, but schools can still drive tremendous regional loyalty without titles. Creighton has not advanced past the round of 16 in over 80 years and are sixth nationally in attendance, driven by alumni. Georgetown has 50,000 alumni within an hour of Capital One Arena. How many were there anytime this season?

Jeff Goodman said it last night on John Fanta's podcast: this is still the best job in the Big East--most writers will say it if you ask, and probably a lot of coaches, too. But it's still being run the way it did way back when. Not all of this is Ewing's doing--he inherited it. If Villanova is A Fortune 500 Company, Georgetown is still The Family Business, and what happens in the family stays in the family. And that worked for many years. But in 2022 the basketball office doesn't drive the connection with the University the way it could, and Georgetown University doesn't drive the connection with basketball the way it should.

Man is the bolded portion sad to read especially considering that the basketball program reports directly to the top...

When Nova needed a new AD in 2015, they hired Mark Jackson from USC. The quote below from the Villanova President exactly describes what Gtown desperately needs in my view...


“Our search centered on finding an individual who believes in the values and mission of Villanova University, understands the changing landscape of college athletics, and possesses the skills necessary to sustain and grow Villanova’s success—athletically, academically and administratively—now and in the future,” said the Rev. Peter M. Donohue, OSA, PhD, Villanova University President. “Mark quickly distinguished himself as an energetic, visionary leader who possesses the experience, leadership skills and character traits we were seeking, making it clear that he is the right choice for this role.”

www1.villanova.edu/villanova/media/pressreleases/2015/0825-1.html

[hoyajmw]

Pains me DEEPLY that we are not THE brand name of the conference but Villanova is and I'm reduced to admiring/respecting/rooting way too much in the post-season for them to carry on the reputation of the Big East. Current roster includes Dematha's Justin Moore (starting guard) and Paul VI's Brandon Slater (reserve but gets a lot of run forward). And of course Sidwell's Saddiq Bey (now in the NBA -- good enough to go pro after two years) was there in the late teens and Gonzagas's Kris Jenkins (talk about a legendary shot) before that -- in addition to what I personally view as the beginning of the transition from us to them (the Josh Hart idiocy). We are consistently outrecruited by Villanova (heck, by basically EVERYBODY) in the area and I just don't get why -- unless we either are not trying hard enough or the brand is so damaged it simply can't be done. When Terrance Williams was still in play I was at the WCAC semis at American University and in fairly rapid order Patrick and then Jon Wallace and two other assistant coaches arrived and sat right near the Gonzaga bench. Williams committed to us not long after, then of course decommitted to go to Michigan -- along with Dematha's big man Hunter Dickinson (don't know what his deal was/why we never seemed to be in the mix here). Don't know what happened with Terrance ultimately and indicated great effort -- but that is literally the beginning and also the END of getting local WCAC kids to commit out of high school to us.  So it is not only "why not Georgetown?" but NEVER Georgetown if we don't fix this...

Vignette: In the off-season that the reformed Big East took shape and Fox stepped up with big $$ to get the back to the future "Catholic 7" Big East underway quickly  (with later supplements of course of Xavier, Creighton and those heathens from Butler) there was a donor thing that JTIII attended (as he always did -- and was always GREAT ... Articulate, funny, open, friendly. The whole package of classy. I still mourn that it didn't work out longer) and he told this tale (long enough ago I think OK to share). He said a Fox executive told him that Fox viewed the success of the basketball-centric Big East as critical to the future of a diffuse, non-completely football/$$ focused college basketball landscape, and that Georgetown's success was critical to the success of that reformed Big East. "So", JT3 wryly concluded, "no pressure." But Villanova became that critically important success that we were poised and EXPECTED to be, and I do think it is an open question whether there is enough time and room to catch them before the fears of the executive in 2013 become the reality. 

[AshantiCooksBurner]

"Why New England and not the Jets? Other than Bill Belicheck and tremendous ownership, why are the Patriots so much better than the Jets??"

[njhoya78]

This thread is a very well-thought out, incisive examination of how Villanova's program leapfrogged Georgetown's.

Jay Wright was basically signed, sealed and delivered to Rutgers when 'Nova fired Steve Lappas and hired him instead. Wright certainly took Villanova to unanticipated heights since that fateful decision, but EtomicB really nailed it with his post regarding 'Nova's hiring of Mark Jackson. Georgetown has not adjusted to that changing landscape at all; this isn't a slap at Lee Reed, who has no authority with respect to the men's basketball program. The administration still longs for the college basketball world of the 1980s and 1990s...and everything has changed dramatically since then. Healy Hall hasn't adjusted to the realities of revenue-generating college athletics in the last twenty years, or (more damningly) has chosen not to adjust.

Unfortunately, I think we may all be overvaluing the Georgetown basketball brand that now exists.

[Elvado]

Feb 9, 2022 11:09:07 GMT -5 njhoya78 said:

This thread is a very well-thought out, incisive examination of how Villanova's program leapfrogged Georgetown's.

Jay Wright was basically signed, sealed and delivered to Rutgers when 'Nova fired Steve Lappas and hired him instead. Wright certainly took Villanova to unanticipated heights since that fateful decision, but EtomicB really nailed it with his post regarding 'Nova's hiring of Mark Jackson. Georgetown has not adjusted to that changing landscape at all; this isn't a slap at Lee Reed, who has no authority with respect to the men's basketball program. The administration still longs for the college basketball world of the 1980s and 1990s...and everything has changed dramatically since then. Healy Hall hasn't adjusted to the realities of revenue-generating college athletics in the last twenty years, or (more damningly) has chosen not to adjust.

Unfortunately, I think we may all be overvaluing the Georgetown basketball brand that now exists.

Sadly our brand, like the ubiquitous 80’s Starter Jacket, is a museum
piece now, a relic of a bygone era.