prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 7, 2021 14:31:57 GMT -5
Harris is 26.1% on threes this season, after shooting 26.0% on threes last season. He's simply not tall or strong enough to shoot threes effectively at this level. It's largely because he tries to get so high in the air on his jump shot (to avoid taller defensive players), that he doesn't have the strength to use his current jump shot form effectively. Ahhh the Height theory… that Dante is not making 3s because he’s “not tall”. Never mind that, at 6’, he’s average height for the BE. How did Howard make so many 3s? I guess we can leave 5’2” Rogers open on the perimeter tomorrow night because he’s too short to make them. I’ve watched every game and Dante is either left open or with a soft cover at the 3-line. Why cover him if he’s shooting 26% from 3? Defenses are focusing on doubleteaming one of Don, Kaiden and Aminu for now until something changes. IIRC, His form since hs has always been with a jump. The hitch is new.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 7, 2021 14:36:17 GMT -5
Harris is 26.1% on threes this season, after shooting 26.0% on threes last season. He's simply not tall or strong enough to shoot threes effectively at this level. It's largely because he tries to get so high in the air on his jump shot (to avoid taller defensive players), that he doesn't have the strength to use his current jump shot form effectively. Ahhh the Height theory… that Dante is not making 3s because he’s “not tall”. Never mind that, at 6’, he’s average height for the BE. How did Howard make so many 3s? I guess we can leave 5’2” Rogers open on the perimeter tomorrow night because he’s too short to make them. I’ve watched every game and Dante is either left open or with a soft cover at the 3-line. Why cover him if he’s shooting 26% from 3? Defenses are focusing on doubleteaming one of Don, Kaiden and Aminu for now until something changes. IIRC, His form since hs has always been with a jump. The hitch is new. I think more than not tall it's not tall plus skinny, especially in the lower body for Harris. (supposed 6 feet 170) So he doesn't have as much power behind his base compared to a compact guy like Rogers (5-2 150 lbs). Howard is also pretty compact at 5-10 175.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Dec 7, 2021 14:39:43 GMT -5
I would really like to see better shot selection on our part. Overall, our guys try way too many long twos. While I really like Dante Harris he does have a tendency to be at the three point line, drive in a few feet, pull up and shoot. Whether those shots go in our not, they simply aren't good high efficiency shots. I'd really like to see our guys focus on points in the paint and threes, to the exclusion of all else. I realize that is the new approach, but the mid-long range twos need to stop. While I generally agree with the sentiment against shooting long 2s, in the case of Harris specifically, it's got a much higher chance of going in than his 3-pointers do. Harris is 26.1% on threes this season, after shooting 26.0% on threes last season. He's simply not tall or strong enough to shoot threes effectively at this level. It's largely because he tries to get so high in the air on his jump shot (to avoid taller defensive players), that he doesn't have the strength to use his current jump shot form effectively. Professorhoya or somebody like that was talking about Harris this season implementing the "Curtis Staples hitch", whatever that is - which doesn't seem to be working. On the flip side, Harris' 2-point percentage is way up from last season - 46.9% vs. 39.7%. So, for me, if Harris has to shoot, I'd rather he take a 2 than a 3. All that being said, as a team we'd be a lot better off if Harris tried to be more of a distributor and didn't make up his mind so early that he's going to shoot. The problem is that he puts his head down, doesn't look to pass to his teammates, and often doesn't take good shots. But, Ewing seems determined to ride with Harris as his only PG playing the style that he plays, so we're having to live with the results. I'll agree with a few points here. Dante's jump shooting is significantly worse year over year, pretty much across the board. Last year vs. this year 3pt: 26% / 26% Long 2: 44% / 37% Free Throw: 89% / 71% Something is fundamentally wrong with his form, jokes about whatever hitch example aside it really is an issue. What's hidden in there is Dante has made a major improvement finishing at the rim so far, that's why his 2 pt % looks much better Close 2: 35% / 62% And my criticism about the long 2s is more about when Dante takes them. It's actually pretty good that he can hit these at an ok clip when the shot clock is winding down to work to get this shot whenever he wants. What doesnt work for me is a possession with zero passes, a screen at top, and pulling up for an 18-20 footer with 20 seconds on the clock. That being said, Dante is still having a pretty solid year, his ast/ turnover ratio looks great, and putting up a 105 O-rating with a 25% usage rating is really solid. At first glance the reaction would be for his usage to come down a little, but there's really nowhere for it to go where its realistic to expect the same efficiency. The list of problems doesnt have Dante on it for me. And while Dante's efficiency last year was criticized on this board, Tyler Beard currently sporting a 87.6 O-rating on a very low 15% usage. I'll concede Tyler needs to play more probably because Dante will break down at this rate more than anything else.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 7, 2021 14:51:40 GMT -5
While I generally agree with the sentiment against shooting long 2s, in the case of Harris specifically, it's got a much higher chance of going in than his 3-pointers do. Harris is 26.1% on threes this season, after shooting 26.0% on threes last season. He's simply not tall or strong enough to shoot threes effectively at this level. It's largely because he tries to get so high in the air on his jump shot (to avoid taller defensive players), that he doesn't have the strength to use his current jump shot form effectively. Professorhoya or somebody like that was talking about Harris this season implementing the "Curtis Staples hitch", whatever that is - which doesn't seem to be working. On the flip side, Harris' 2-point percentage is way up from last season - 46.9% vs. 39.7%. So, for me, if Harris has to shoot, I'd rather he take a 2 than a 3. All that being said, as a team we'd be a lot better off if Harris tried to be more of a distributor and didn't make up his mind so early that he's going to shoot. The problem is that he puts his head down, doesn't look to pass to his teammates, and often doesn't take good shots. But, Ewing seems determined to ride with Harris as his only PG playing the style that he plays, so we're having to live with the results. I'll agree with a few points here. Dante's jump shooting is significantly worse year over year, pretty much across the board. Last year vs. this year 3pt: 26% / 26% Long 2: 44% / 37% Free Throw: 89% / 71% Something is fundamentally wrong with his form, jokes about whatever hitch example aside it really is an issue. What's hidden in there is Dante has made a major improvement finishing at the rim so far, that's why his 2 pt % looks much better Close 2: 35% / 62%. That's actually good news because he's shooting the same percentage from 3pt with the new Curtis Staples Hitch. So assuming when he masters the Curtis Staples Hitch he will shoot a much higher percentage from 3 than last year. It doesn't matter that his long 2's % goes down because as 2003 is always saying, he should be only shooting lay ups (which has gone up dramatically from 35% to 62%) and 3pters.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 7, 2021 14:54:35 GMT -5
I'll agree with a few points here. Dante's jump shooting is significantly worse year over year, pretty much across the board. Last year vs. this year 3pt: 26% / 26% Long 2: 44% / 37% Free Throw: 89% / 71% Something is fundamentally wrong with his form, jokes about whatever hitch example aside it really is an issue. What's hidden in there is Dante has made a major improvement finishing at the rim so far, that's why his 2 pt % looks much better Close 2: 35% / 62%. That's actually good news because he's shooting the same percentage from 3pt with the new Curtis Staples Hitch. So assuming when he masters the Curtis Staples Hitch he will shoot a much higher percentage from 3 than last year. It doesn't matter that his long 2's % goes down because as 2003 is always saying, he should be only shooting lay ups (which has gone up dramatically from 35% to 62%) and 3pters. On the Close 2 point, however, keep in mind that in 7 games played, 4 of them have been against Dartmouth, American, Siena and Longwood - not exactly UCONN and Seton Hall. To me, that 62% figure is fool’s gold given the step up in competition once we play high major teams every week.
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hoyaduck
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Post by hoyaduck on Dec 7, 2021 15:05:25 GMT -5
As a side note... I do always enjoy watching that Darnell Rogers guy play.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Dec 7, 2021 15:08:31 GMT -5
That's actually good news because he's shooting the same percentage from 3pt with the new Curtis Staples Hitch. So assuming when he masters the Curtis Staples Hitch he will shoot a much higher percentage from 3 than last year. It doesn't matter that his long 2's % goes down because as 2003 is always saying, he should be only shooting lay ups (which has gone up dramatically from 35% to 62%) and 3pters. On the Close 2 point, however, keep in mind that in 7 games played, 4 of them have been against Dartmouth, American, Siena and Longwood - not exactly UCONN and Seton Hall. To me, that 62% figure is fool’s gold given the step up in competition once we play high major teams every week. completely fair and worth monitoring. He definitely looks a little stronger and i've seen some creative finishes but yes not sure if sustainable.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 7, 2021 15:15:01 GMT -5
While I generally agree with the sentiment against shooting long 2s, in the case of Harris specifically, it's got a much higher chance of going in than his 3-pointers do. Harris is 26.1% on threes this season, after shooting 26.0% on threes last season. He's simply not tall or strong enough to shoot threes effectively at this level. It's largely because he tries to get so high in the air on his jump shot (to avoid taller defensive players), that he doesn't have the strength to use his current jump shot form effectively. Professorhoya or somebody like that was talking about Harris this season implementing the "Curtis Staples hitch", whatever that is - which doesn't seem to be working. On the flip side, Harris' 2-point percentage is way up from last season - 46.9% vs. 39.7%. So, for me, if Harris has to shoot, I'd rather he take a 2 than a 3. All that being said, as a team we'd be a lot better off if Harris tried to be more of a distributor and didn't make up his mind so early that he's going to shoot. The problem is that he puts his head down, doesn't look to pass to his teammates, and often doesn't take good shots. But, Ewing seems determined to ride with Harris as his only PG playing the style that he plays, so we're having to live with the results. Yup he has no confidence in his 3. So what 2003 is asking him to do is basically not shoot from outside if he's not allowed to take long two's (which he seems to make). Until he masters the Curtis Staples hitch 3pt shot, he will have to rely on his long two shot. Fair points on Harris, I did not realize his three point shooting was that bad. He really does need to figure out a way to shoot better from three, because it would really open things open for him. I wish we had stats to determine Harris' shooting percentages from long-mid range and in the paint. Sure, Harris shoots 46.9% from two, but if you exclude layups, that number will fall. Right now, it's probably a small sample size anyway. But you both are highlighting a bigger problem that Harris has. In shooting 26% from three point range, he is only scoring 0.78 points per possession. And, in shooting 46.9% from two, he's scoring a better, but still pretty inefficient 0.94 points per possession. While the latter number is better, neither of them are good. Harris either needs to shoot threes better, or get his two point percentage up a good bit. Without doing either, his efficiency is going to suffer. I should add that despite the poor shooting, Harris still has managed a pretty decent 104 O rating. And, that's because he is getting assists on a very high percentage of possessions, for a PG his turnover rate is pretty low, and his steal percentage is pretty good too. So, Harris is a valuable player despite his poor shooting, BUT if he improved his shooting, he would be super super valuable. EDIT: Before I posted, rhw485 posted that Dante Harris's shooting percentage on long twos is 37% - lower than his overall rate (which is true for almost everyone). So, Harris' long twos score .74 points per possession, and his threes score .78 points per possession. So, despite Harris' poor three point shooting, it's still a marginally better shot (though almost statistically indistinguishable) from three than a long two. This just goes to show that it's really hard for a long two to be ever be a "better" shot than a three, no matter how badly you shoot from three.
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 7, 2021 16:19:45 GMT -5
Yup he has no confidence in his 3. So what 2003 is asking him to do is basically not shoot from outside if he's not allowed to take long two's (which he seems to make). Until he masters the Curtis Staples hitch 3pt shot, he will have to rely on his long two shot. Fair points on Harris, I did not realize his three point shooting was that bad. He really does need to figure out a way to shoot better from three, because it would really open things open for him. I wish we had stats to determine Harris' shooting percentages from long-mid range and in the paint. Sure, Harris shoots 46.9% from two, but if you exclude layups, that number will fall. Right now, it's probably a small sample size anyway. But you both are highlighting a bigger problem that Harris has. In shooting 26% from three point range, he is only scoring 0.78 points per possession. And, in shooting 46.9% from two, he's scoring a better, but still pretty inefficient 0.94 points per possession. While the latter number is better, neither of them are good. Harris either needs to shoot threes better, or get his two point percentage up a good bit. Without doing either, his efficiency is going to suffer. I should add that despite the poor shooting, Harris still has managed a pretty decent 104 O rating. And, that's because he is getting assists on a very high percentage of possessions, for a PG his turnover rate is pretty low, and his steal percentage is pretty good too. So, Harris is a valuable player despite his poor shooting, BUT if he improved his shooting, he would be super super valuable. EDIT: Before I posted, rhw485 posted that Dante Harris's shooting percentage on long twos is 37% - lower than his overall rate (which is true for almost everyone). So, Harris' long twos score .74 points per possession, and his threes score .78 points per possession. So, despite Harris' poor three point shooting, it's still a marginally better shot (though almost statistically indistinguishable) from three than a long two. This just goes to show that it's really hard for a long two to be ever be a "better" shot than a three, no matter how badly you shoot from three. Gotta say 03, you really find your posting mojo when the team is doing poorly.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Dec 7, 2021 16:37:41 GMT -5
Here’s a somewhat off the wall idea that appeals to me—start five freshmen either in this game or maybe against Howard. We can go back to Dante, Rice and Carey after 5 mins or so, but it would be good to see Ryan, Aminu,, Jalin, Tyler, and Jorden forge an identity together. Respectfully disagree. Ewing tried all 5 freshmen together in the Dartmouth game and it was a mess. Not enough shooting, way too many turnovers. Only Aminu can help much in the halfcourt and it didnt work. I actually think the freshmen are struggling because Ewing plays too many of them together in bench units. Riley would be much better served playing with Dante and Rice to help him from a spacing perspective etc. Ewing has always a fairly rigid rotation where there are lineups with 1 starter and 4 bench guys midway through the first half I certainly see your point, but I'm not necessarily making the suggestion because I think it would be effective. I suppose it might be, but I see it as sort of a morale booster to get a start. Ryan and Aminu should be there anyway, and the others have likely earned a bit of PT at the beginning. I concede it's a reach, but I'd like to see these five forming a bond to keep them around.
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Post by 4aks on Dec 7, 2021 19:28:06 GMT -5
Fair points on Harris, ... (trim) I should add that despite the poor shooting, Harris still has managed a pretty decent 104 O rating. And, that's because he is getting assists on a very high percentage of possessions, for a PG his turnover rate is pretty low, and his steal percentage is pretty good too. So, Harris is a valuable player despite his poor shooting, BUT if he improved his shooting, he would be super super valuable. EDIT: Before I posted, rhw485 posted that Dante Harris's shooting percentage on long twos is 37% - lower than his overall rate (which is true for almost everyone). So, Harris' long twos score .74 points per possession, and his threes score .78 points per possession. So, despite Harris' poor three point shooting, it's still a marginally better shot (though almost statistically indistinguishable) from three than a long two. This just goes to show that it's really hard for a long two to be ever be a "better" shot than a three, no matter how badly you shoot from three. Gotta say 03, you really find your posting mojo when the team is doing poorly. But impact on team morale is also a factor - the PG jacking up low odds three pt attempts, esp. after too-few team touches, that's a bad look and everyone knows it ... and often it's the marginal bucket that's needed immediately, so a higher odds of success long two in a high impact situation should be 'worth more' (close game or trailing, shot clock low, and/or game clock low)
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 7, 2021 19:36:54 GMT -5
Fair points on Harris, I did not realize his three point shooting was that bad. He really does need to figure out a way to shoot better from three, because it would really open things open for him. I wish we had stats to determine Harris' shooting percentages from long-mid range and in the paint. Sure, Harris shoots 46.9% from two, but if you exclude layups, that number will fall. Right now, it's probably a small sample size anyway. But you both are highlighting a bigger problem that Harris has. In shooting 26% from three point range, he is only scoring 0.78 points per possession. And, in shooting 46.9% from two, he's scoring a better, but still pretty inefficient 0.94 points per possession. While the latter number is better, neither of them are good. Harris either needs to shoot threes better, or get his two point percentage up a good bit. Without doing either, his efficiency is going to suffer. I should add that despite the poor shooting, Harris still has managed a pretty decent 104 O rating. And, that's because he is getting assists on a very high percentage of possessions, for a PG his turnover rate is pretty low, and his steal percentage is pretty good too. So, Harris is a valuable player despite his poor shooting, BUT if he improved his shooting, he would be super super valuable. EDIT: Before I posted, rhw485 posted that Dante Harris's shooting percentage on long twos is 37% - lower than his overall rate (which is true for almost everyone). So, Harris' long twos score .74 points per possession, and his threes score .78 points per possession. So, despite Harris' poor three point shooting, it's still a marginally better shot (though almost statistically indistinguishable) from three than a long two. This just goes to show that it's really hard for a long two to be ever be a "better" shot than a three, no matter how badly you shoot from three. Gotta say 03, you really find your posting mojo when the team is doing poorly. I disagree. 2003 has been one of the more frequent posters in all kinds of threads since the JT3 era. He usually backs his point of view with data available in subscription services. Anyone who goes there is a super fan.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 8, 2021 7:56:37 GMT -5
Let's go Hoyas...one game at a time. Gotta win this one. I made the trek to Columbia on Sunday, and while I enjoyed being there, the game obviously did not go as we had hoped. Here is rooting for a win tonight and better things as the season moves on.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 8, 2021 8:10:35 GMT -5
For those of you who think 6’0” is short for college basketball, enjoy:
Who guards him? I think Dante can stay with him. Who helps him? Jordan? But don’t foul him (92%).
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Post by BeantownHoya on Dec 8, 2021 8:39:07 GMT -5
Hoping coaches and players just hit the reset button (in a good way)...
Put the first 7 games out of their mind. Start fresh.
Play 2 solid half's. Get a win. Then move forward from there. I think they just need to take it a game (or even a half at a time) get some positives vibes going and try to start to turn this season around.
Let's make that start tonight. Go Hoyas!
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kettlehill
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Post by kettlehill on Dec 8, 2021 10:37:44 GMT -5
Dont know if it has been mentioned re Dante' shooting: while he seems like a well conditioned athlete, at this point in his career, with his build, he should not be playing 33 minutes a game. He plays Hard, he is the focus of the offense and he gets after it on D. He often looks beat. Simple solution: play Beard more. He is a gamer and is the future PG. Guaranteed, the ball will move around more on Offense.
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Post by HometownHoya on Dec 8, 2021 10:41:10 GMT -5
GAMEDAY!!
Hopefully tonight's feelings are better then Sunday.
Go Hoyas! Beat the Retrievers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 10:42:46 GMT -5
Dont know if it has been mentioned re Dante' shooting: while he seems like a well conditioned athlete, at this point in his career, with his build, he should not be playing 33 minutes a game. He plays Hard, he is the focus of the offense and he gets after it on D. He often looks beat. Simple solution: play Beard more. He is a gamer and is the future PG. Guaranteed, the ball will move around more on Offense. I agree Beard should play more. I don't know about the Ball Will Move Around More part... but I think more Beard minutes will help Harris play at his best while he's out there. 30+ minutes regularly now - whether these OOC games are close or not - means tired legs later in conference play.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 8, 2021 10:52:52 GMT -5
Dont know if it has been mentioned re Dante' shooting: while he seems like a well conditioned athlete, at this point in his career, with his build, he should not be playing 33 minutes a game. He plays Hard, he is the focus of the offense and he gets after it on D. He often looks beat. Simple solution: play Beard more. He is a gamer and is the future PG. Guaranteed, the ball will move around more on Offense. I agree Beard should play more. I don't know about the Ball Will Move Around More part... but I think more Beard minutes will help Harris play at his best while he's out there. 30+ minutes regularly now - whether these OOC games are close or not - means tired legs later in conference play. Coach will play freshmen if he thinks they can play (Akinjo, Mac, LeBlanc, Dante, Aminu) Like with Bile vs Berger/Sibley/etc last year. There must be a reason he is playing one over the other. On top of coach having vastly more experience than anyone here on this board, we have such a small sample size to make an assessment on a new player whereas Coach has hours of watching a player from practice and scrimmage.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Dec 8, 2021 10:54:13 GMT -5
Dont know if it has been mentioned re Dante' shooting: while he seems like a well conditioned athlete, at this point in his career, with his build, he should not be playing 33 minutes a game. He plays Hard, he is the focus of the offense and he gets after it on D. He often looks beat. Simple solution: play Beard more. He is a gamer and is the future PG. Guaranteed, the ball will move around more on Offense. I agree Beard should play more. I don't know about the Ball Will Move Around More part... but I think more Beard minutes will help Harris play at his best while he's out there. 30+ minutes regularly now - whether these OOC games are close or not - means tired legs later in conference play. Agree with both of you. I gave Ewing the benefit of the doubt w/Dante's minutes last year. We lost Jalen Harris and clearly he did not think Berger or really anyone could play a reasonable back-up to him...so therefore a ton of minutes. However we now bring in a true backup PG, a different type of PG (more size, better athlete) and Dante plays even more minutes per game?!?! How does that make any sense? It's not helping Dante now or as the season progresses and if the argument is Beard isn't ready my argument is besides Aminu he is just as ready as any of the other freshman getting minutes. We are also getting to the point where the simple fact is Dante may not become a good outside shooter. He shot 26 percent last season and again he was thrown into a role so gave him a benefit out of the doubt but he's right back at 26 again this year and anyway you shake it that's bad. Less minutes may even help that and I am willing to bet given more playing time Beard shoots better than that from 3. This takes nothing away from the positives Dante brings to this team but Beard deserves more time to at least prove whether he belongs or not. If we're 7-0 whole other story and Ewing shouldn't be questioned...but we're not.
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