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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 13:57:18 GMT -5
Some brief thoughts: - It was nice to see us outwork/outathlete this group. It's not necessarily indicative of future success against better teams, but it is an important step to be able to use those advantages to beat teams that don't have them. Even if you take our crazy 3 pt shooting down to 8-23, we still win by 15 largely on rebounding.
- The pre-game discussion is odd in light of this game (and some others). I understand the "the year is lost, just get young players time" idea, but a) last year we said that and the upperclassmen actually coalesced and did something b) other than Carey and Rice, who are actually old? c) This team dropped a 14 point lead in a heartbeat with all the inexperienced players on the floor.
- On the last point, we're simply hamstrung by two facts: the freshmen are largely a complete disaster on defense, and aside from Harris, Muhammed and Rice, we have no even slightly consistent way to generate offense. You can't take all three off the court, and it's probably a mistake to play without two for any stretch.
- To that point, Rice is bad at defense. Like really bad. And sometimes he can't hit anything. But he has to play, and he has to shoot. We can lament the inconsistency so far, but since we're not drowning in weapons, we must go with what we got. He actually has a Curry-like release and I think rather than trying to find ways to sit him we need to find ways to get him into a rhythm.
- It's largely the same with Dante. I see a ton of angst over long two pointers (that he tends to hit) and his aggressive style that can lead to dicey situations or turnovers. But he's a sophomore point guard who plays good defense, has a 15% TO rate and a 30%+ assist rate, and oh, by the way, tends to take the vast majority of our late in the shot clock, no one can create shots. He's doing a lot. He has to, people.
- Both Malcolm and Ryan played well, but it wasn't much of a test. UMBC had no one down low. It's been our achilles heel. Our freshmen are bad at defense, but freshmen tend to get better. Our centers ... they are going to tear us apart defensively from what I can see. Ewing hasn't been good at developing defenses that balance interior defense and perimeter defense, but I actually wonder if it is a bit hopeless this year. We really need one of these guys to step up and being able to rebound and stop a guy once in a while.
- For some strange reason, people seem to think Carey has been good this year. Other than starting the season at 60% from 3 ... he's been awful to the level that I think he needs to consider giving back the captaincy. I'm one of the original hoyalalk OGs on efficiency stats ... but man, I think we're misusing. Poor defense, poor decision making, disappearing, and an efficiency rating that is held up by unsustainable shooting and free throw drawing. Is Carey getting these calls in the Big East. He's weirdly worse than his numbers but better than he's been playing, but he needs to step up. I like the frosh, but if we're going be anything, I suspect it is because Carey and Rice become the consistent performers we need, along with Dante and Aminu.
- The freshman class has a lot to like. I just wish we didn't have to play them so much because it's a struggle bus for a decent number. Aminu is great, of course, and in another world where everyone didn't think they were an NBA #1 pick and have a bunch of people screaming it, he'd be the perfect example. Because he plays largely below the rim, and needs perimeter work at his size for the NBA. Ten years ago, he'd be an amazing college player that'd stay three years and lead his team to a Final Four. I worry that expectations and outside pressures are going to rush him before he's ready. He'll be an NBA player ... but 6'5" guards muscling down low and using smart pump fakes is not an NBA game right now. This is not a criticism: he just needs to extend his range, work on some explosiveness, refine his defense, etc.
- I really like Beard. He's smart, he looks for the pass, he has good vision. He's more of a combo, if we're quibbling, though, as he's not bringing a ton to the table in terms of forcing the defense to react. He plays opportunistically, but for that to be a plus, he needs to learn team defense and he needs to be able to hit some outside shots. He doesn't do well on the dribble under pressure or in one on ones, so he needs to fill out those other parts.
- You can see the potential with Riley, but I think everyone should acknowledge that he's pretty terrible right now. Some good steals, but defensively he's all over the place, and offensively, he's mostly bringing offensive fouls. I do love the effort level and no one should take this as a long term knock. But I don't think people should be complaining about playing time for the frosh when he's registered 35% of minutes and been showing merely potential so far. This is investment in the future.
- Billingsley and Holloway aren't the same player at all, but I feel like both of them have the strong potential to be really, really productive college players. Both use their size pretty well, even if Jalen needs to reign it in a bit. Both need to figure out how to get in shape/weight room to get some more quickness and explosiveness without killing their abilities to use their size. I think if they can do that, they can be effective enough defensively, become an asset on the boards and get that much more effective in their offensive games. Both seem to have pretty good instincts.
[li]Ryan's so very interesting. He's not very bouncy. He doesn't jump. But neither did Roy Hibbert, and he was very effective. Can he get his lateral movement up to where he can become that kind of asset. He actually reminds me of Roy a LOT. It's too bad we don't have a strong upperclassman complement, especially a more athletic center to take the heat off him when he's going to be outquicked. - Overally, super exciting freshmen class (and Holloway has some intriguing things). If we can get Carey to bring back a solid game, Rice to be a bit more consistent, and a non-Aminu freshman to step up, I think we could be better than we think in the Big East. But it'll be that defense that will be the linchpin. We have so many young guys on a team that has rarely played strong team defense to date. It's going to take a good chunk of progression, but we saw it last year.
Interesting comment and made me wonder - is Mohammed's comp Marcus Smart? He of course needs better handles. But is 2" taller. Smart's a career 30% 3 pt shooter - but has carved out a 30 mins/game NBA career off high basketball IQ, D and b@lls. On edit: Smart's career 3pt avg is 32% ... still by no means lights-out.
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bluegray79
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bluegray79 on Dec 9, 2021 14:17:35 GMT -5
You make many good points and give us some interesting things to think about. When I find something I think is a little off (a couple of your comments about Jordan Riley, for example), I keep coming back to an idea that occurs to me a dozen times when reading these posts and watching a game. And that is this: we all know that the freshmen players were pretty much the stars of their high school teams and carried their teams with brilliant individual play in a high school world. Riley was High School Player of the Year for the state of New York, right? That's select company. Yes, he does look lost at times and yes, he has holes in his game, even though it's plain to see his athleticism and potential. And here (finally) is my point: it is up to Coach Ewing and the assistants to have a vision for this kid (and the others), to communicate that vision to him/them, and to make it part of how they practice and play the games. I think that could be a big part of how we lose top recruits. They go from star athlete, adored by all, hyped to be joining a D1 program, and then reality sets in -- different & more challenging level of play, lots of bench time, etc. Of course, no freshman should expect to automatically transition into a program and feel entitled to significant playing time. But the coaches need to give any recruit worth holding on to a sense of how he fits into the team and what he might expect moving forward provided he works hard and puts in the time. THAT'S what I hope and expect from PE and the assistants, and maybe that's how we hang on to a core of players that has us closer to where we want to be next year & the year after.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 9, 2021 15:54:33 GMT -5
Some brief thoughts: - It was nice to see us outwork/outathlete this group. It's not necessarily indicative of future success against better teams, but it is an important step to be able to use those advantages to beat teams that don't have them. Even if you take our crazy 3 pt shooting down to 8-23, we still win by 15 largely on rebounding.
- The pre-game discussion is odd in light of this game (and some others). I understand the "the year is lost, just get young players time" idea, but a) last year we said that and the upperclassmen actually coalesced and did something b) other than Carey and Rice, who are actually old? c) This team dropped a 14 point lead in a heartbeat with all the inexperienced players on the floor.
- On the last point, we're simply hamstrung by two facts: the freshmen are largely a complete disaster on defense, and aside from Harris, Muhammed and Rice, we have no even slightly consistent way to generate offense. You can't take all three off the court, and it's probably a mistake to play without two for any stretch.
- To that point, Rice is bad at defense. Like really bad. And sometimes he can't hit anything. But he has to play, and he has to shoot. We can lament the inconsistency so far, but since we're not drowning in weapons, we must go with what we got. He actually has a Curry-like release and I think rather than trying to find ways to sit him we need to find ways to get him into a rhythm.
- It's largely the same with Dante. I see a ton of angst over long two pointers (that he tends to hit) and his aggressive style that can lead to dicey situations or turnovers. But he's a sophomore point guard who plays good defense, has a 15% TO rate and a 30%+ assist rate, and oh, by the way, tends to take the vast majority of our late in the shot clock, no one can create shots. He's doing a lot. He has to, people.
- Both Malcolm and Ryan played well, but it wasn't much of a test. UMBC had no one down low. It's been our achilles heel. Our freshmen are bad at defense, but freshmen tend to get better. Our centers ... they are going to tear us apart defensively from what I can see. Ewing hasn't been good at developing defenses that balance interior defense and perimeter defense, but I actually wonder if it is a bit hopeless this year. We really need one of these guys to step up and being able to rebound and stop a guy once in a while.
- For some strange reason, people seem to think Carey has been good this year. Other than starting the season at 60% from 3 ... he's been awful to the level that I think he needs to consider giving back the captaincy. I'm one of the original hoyalalk OGs on efficiency stats ... but man, I think we're misusing. Poor defense, poor decision making, disappearing, and an efficiency rating that is held up by unsustainable shooting and free throw drawing. Is Carey getting these calls in the Big East. He's weirdly worse than his numbers but better than he's been playing, but he needs to step up. I like the frosh, but if we're going be anything, I suspect it is because Carey and Rice become the consistent performers we need, along with Dante and Aminu.
- The freshman class has a lot to like. I just wish we didn't have to play them so much because it's a struggle bus for a decent number. Aminu is great, of course, and in another world where everyone didn't think they were an NBA #1 pick and have a bunch of people screaming it, he'd be the perfect example. Because he plays largely below the rim, and needs perimeter work at his size for the NBA. Ten years ago, he'd be an amazing college player that'd stay three years and lead his team to a Final Four. I worry that expectations and outside pressures are going to rush him before he's ready. He'll be an NBA player ... but 6'5" guards muscling down low and using smart pump fakes is not an NBA game right now. This is not a criticism: he just needs to extend his range, work on some explosiveness, refine his defense, etc.
- I really like Beard. He's smart, he looks for the pass, he has good vision. He's more of a combo, if we're quibbling, though, as he's not bringing a ton to the table in terms of forcing the defense to react. He plays opportunistically, but for that to be a plus, he needs to learn team defense and he needs to be able to hit some outside shots. He doesn't do well on the dribble under pressure or in one on ones, so he needs to fill out those other parts.
- You can see the potential with Riley, but I think everyone should acknowledge that he's pretty terrible right now. Some good steals, but defensively he's all over the place, and offensively, he's mostly bringing offensive fouls. I do love the effort level and no one should take this as a long term knock. But I don't think people should be complaining about playing time for the frosh when he's registered 35% of minutes and been showing merely potential so far. This is investment in the future.
- Billingsley and Holloway aren't the same player at all, but I feel like both of them have the strong potential to be really, really productive college players. Both use their size pretty well, even if Jalen needs to reign it in a bit. Both need to figure out how to get in shape/weight room to get some more quickness and explosiveness without killing their abilities to use their size. I think if they can do that, they can be effective enough defensively, become an asset on the boards and get that much more effective in their offensive games. Both seem to have pretty good instincts.
[li]Ryan's so very interesting. He's not very bouncy. He doesn't jump. But neither did Roy Hibbert, and he was very effective. Can he get his lateral movement up to where he can become that kind of asset. He actually reminds me of Roy a LOT. It's too bad we don't have a strong upperclassman complement, especially a more athletic center to take the heat off him when he's going to be outquicked. - Overally, super exciting freshmen class (and Holloway has some intriguing things). If we can get Carey to bring back a solid game, Rice to be a bit more consistent, and a non-Aminu freshman to step up, I think we could be better than we think in the Big East. But it'll be that defense that will be the linchpin. We have so many young guys on a team that has rarely played strong team defense to date. It's going to take a good chunk of progression, but we saw it last year.
Interesting comment and made me wonder - is Mohammed's comp Marcus Smart? He of course needs better handles. But is 2" taller. Smart's a career 30% 3 pt shooter - but has carved out a 30 mins/game NBA career off high basketball IQ, D and b@lls. On edit: Smart's career 3pt avg is 32% ... still by no means lights-out. One, I love your law blog. Essential. Two, this is an interesting comp. I would have never thought it up even though it makes a lot of sense. I think Muhammed can actually become a better shooter than Smart -- he doesn't look bad from the college three, but he clearly doesn't have the range. Does he have Smart's quickness? He has the toughness and the smarts, I think. If we get even one year of Aminu-as-college-Marcus-Smart ... wow.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Dec 9, 2021 16:05:41 GMT -5
Aminu is a slightly bigger version of Perry McDonald.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 9, 2021 16:41:22 GMT -5
Interesting comment and made me wonder - is Mohammed's comp Marcus Smart? He of course needs better handles. But is 2" taller. Smart's a career 30% 3 pt shooter - but has carved out a 30 mins/game NBA career off high basketball IQ, D and b@lls. On edit: Smart's career 3pt avg is 32% ... still by no means lights-out. One, I love your law blog. Essential. Two, this is an interesting comp. I would have never thought it up even though it makes a lot of sense. I think Muhammed can actually become a better shooter than Smart -- he doesn't look bad from the college three, but he clearly doesn't have the range. Does he have Smart's quickness? He has the toughness and the smarts, I think. If we get even one year of Aminu-as-college-Marcus-Smart ... wow. Of course it would be wonderful if that happened. But I just don't see it, at least not yet. Maybe a similar type of player? I'll buy that. But, as you note, he doesn't seem to have the same burst with the ball. And he's not as good a defender. Rebounding, yes. And toughness.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 16:47:07 GMT -5
Interesting comment and made me wonder - is Mohammed's comp Marcus Smart? He of course needs better handles. But is 2" taller. Smart's a career 30% 3 pt shooter - but has carved out a 30 mins/game NBA career off high basketball IQ, D and b@lls. On edit: Smart's career 3pt avg is 32% ... still by no means lights-out. One, I love your law blog. Essential. Two, this is an interesting comp. I would have never thought it up even though it makes a lot of sense. I think Muhammed can actually become a better shooter than Smart -- he doesn't look bad from the college three, but he clearly doesn't have the range. Does he have Smart's quickness? He has the toughness and the smarts, I think. If we get even one year of Aminu-as-college-Marcus-Smart ... wow. Definitely. Hopefully with the exception of having to go into the stands to punch a racist fan.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 9, 2021 16:56:37 GMT -5
You make many good points and give us some interesting things to think about. When I find something I think is a little off (a couple of your comments about Jordan Riley, for example), I keep coming back to an idea that occurs to me a dozen times when reading these posts and watching a game. And that is this: we all know that the freshmen players were pretty much the stars of their high school teams and carried their teams with brilliant individual play in a high school world. Riley was High School Player of the Year for the state of New York, right? That's select company. Yes, he does look lost at times and yes, he has holes in his game, even though it's plain to see his athleticism and potential. And here (finally) is my point: it is up to Coach Ewing and the assistants to have a vision for this kid (and the others), to communicate that vision to him/them, and to make it part of how they practice and play the games. I think that could be a big part of how we lose top recruits. They go from star athlete, adored by all, hyped to be joining a D1 program, and then reality sets in -- different & more challenging level of play, lots of bench time, etc. Of course, no freshman should expect to automatically transition into a program and feel entitled to significant playing time. But the coaches need to give any recruit worth holding on to a sense of how he fits into the team and what he might expect moving forward provided he works hard and puts in the time. THAT'S what I hope and expect from PE and the assistants, and maybe that's how we hang on to a core of players that has us closer to where we want to be next year & the year after. Yes, there's an element of expectations and management here. I'm not quite sure what you disagree with on Riley specifically, but I definitely agree that I see the potential. From my perspective, he's getting good PT right now -- more than his play probably earns, IMO, if you were to allocate strictly on performance and not potential. It is absolutely a key part of Ewing's job to convey the plan, sell Riley in, make clear where he needs to improve but also help provide motivation. But some of it has to be on Riley as well. These next statements are not Riley specific: I've seen nothing from him, not even body language, that makes me think he personally feels this way. But there's far too many kids who come in thinking they are amazing, that they deserve to start, to play 40, that they don't need to improve, that all they need is exposure. And there seems to rarely be family members and friends who do anything but reinforce that -- I can't even imagine my father tweeting something about my boss; my dad would tell me if my boss/coach wanted me to work on something to get going. But these days, you've got family members publicly acting like these kids have it made. Riley is actively bad in team defense. He's constantly out of position. It's something to learn, and he has the tools. But he's not a good shooter, has a tendency to offensive fouls on the drive, and I think has registered one assist? No one should think that Riley is currently helping us win games. Ewing needs to sell him on a plan, but players need to commit to actually listening and improving. After having to deal with players who listen to handlers or whomever ... I mean, Wahab's decision this offseason is mind-boggling from the outside. Give me players that want to work, want to be coached, want to improve. Give me someone who wants to earn PT, when they lose PT, they ask what they can do to get it, they don't run to complain about not getting it. Again, none of this is specific to Riley. Aside from hearing that his mom tweeted (dear parents: stop it), I have no indication it is an issue. But Riley is getting 35% of possible minutes, Beard 21%, Mutombo 30%, Billingsley 38% and Mohammed 75%. (Holloway at 25% in terms of sophs). Like, that's not bad for early in the season and only Mohammed actually being a strong current asset on a game to game basis. What should players expect? I don't think it is really going to help retention if we keep losing as well. And I think there's tremendous value in making a player work for some level of PT.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 9, 2021 16:58:41 GMT -5
One, I love your law blog. Essential. Two, this is an interesting comp. I would have never thought it up even though it makes a lot of sense. I think Muhammed can actually become a better shooter than Smart -- he doesn't look bad from the college three, but he clearly doesn't have the range. Does he have Smart's quickness? He has the toughness and the smarts, I think. If we get even one year of Aminu-as-college-Marcus-Smart ... wow. Of course it would be wonderful if that happened. But I just don't see it, at least not yet. Maybe a similar type of player? I'll buy that. But, as you note, he doesn't seem to have the same burst with the ball. And he's not as good a defender. Rebounding, yes. And toughness. I mean, Marcus Smart either won POY or was close in voting. So yeah, we're talking best case. But I do think that there's more upside in athleticism here than first seen. It's hard to improve but I think all these guys can jump a bit more with more work in the weight room. Who was the Butler player that could basically score or get fouled on every drive to the basket no matter how well defended? Not nearly as good as smart but super frustrating.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 9, 2021 17:04:36 GMT -5
Of course it would be wonderful if that happened. But I just don't see it, at least not yet. Maybe a similar type of player? I'll buy that. But, as you note, he doesn't seem to have the same burst with the ball. And he's not as good a defender. Rebounding, yes. And toughness. I mean, Marcus Smart either won POY or was close in voting. So yeah, we're talking best case. But I do think that there's more upside in athleticism here than first seen. It's hard to improve but I think all these guys can jump a bit more with more work in the weight room. Who was the Butler player that could basically score or get fouled on every drive to the basket no matter how well defended? Not nearly as good as smart but super frustrating. Roosevelt Jones? www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2017/08/13/back-pain-ends-hoops-career-butlers-roosevelt-jones/563422001/
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Hoya Rich
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by Hoya Rich on Dec 9, 2021 17:16:07 GMT -5
Was nice to see Ryan get so much run and have an active role in the game. But I have to ask: has anyone seen a 7'2" guy get such a high percentage of his shots blocked? It's quite remarkable.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 9, 2021 17:20:28 GMT -5
Yep. That dude was amazing.
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kbones17
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Post by kbones17 on Dec 9, 2021 18:03:49 GMT -5
Was nice to see Ryan get so much run and have an active role in the game. But I have to ask: has anyone seen a 7'2" guy get such a high percentage of his shots blocked? It's quite remarkable. I doubt he is 7’2” actually. He’s got a very soft touch around the rim, but he has very little lift/explosion in his legs. Similar to Jessie Govan in a lot of ways, although he is skinnier for now.
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wsdhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by wsdhoya on Dec 9, 2021 18:12:09 GMT -5
Was nice to see Ryan get so much run and have an active role in the game. But I have to ask: has anyone seen a 7'2" guy get such a high percentage of his shots blocked? It's quite remarkable. He’s not 7’2” but then again nobody is what they list themselves at. The getting shots blocked thing is due to inexperience playing against larger opponents and lack of strength. That stuff can and will improve. Would be a part of most 18 year old centers’ games which is why the often don’t see major minutes until junior year at that position. Think of Hibbert as a freshman versus upperclassman.
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 9, 2021 18:23:00 GMT -5
Since now you are just making sh** up, here is some fact based history because this has nothing to do with Syracuse. Every time in his collegiate career Rice has shot over 70% for a game , he shot less than 30% the next game. As every thoughtful golfer knows, just because you shoot a low net score today doesn’t mean you will break par tomorrow….no matter how euphoric you feel after today’s round. I'll take a 30 point win given we are 4-4 rather than pulling out a magnifying glass to look for negatives. Interesting golf analogy. Mischaracterizing my comments as pulling out a magnifying glass is inaccurate. I stated in real time when we were up by 25 points with 10 minutes left that we should prioritize developing the youth. The choice was to self-pleasure with a couple more meaningless Rice 3s or to be really thoughtful about how to use the last 10 minutes of game time. How many more times before conference play will we be up by 25 points with 10 minutes left. I think Ewing missed an opportunity. Yes, he added freshman to the rotation the last 10 minutes, but my count Rice took 4-5 more shots after my initial comment that he should be pulled.
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Post by HometownHoya on Dec 9, 2021 18:45:42 GMT -5
I'll take a 30 point win given we are 4-4 rather than pulling out a magnifying glass to look for negatives. Interesting golf analogy. Mischaracterizing my comments as pulling out a magnifying glass is inaccurate. I stated in real time when we were up by 25 points with 10 minutes left that we should prioritize developing the youth. The choice was to self-pleasure with a couple more meaningless Rice 3s or to be really thoughtful about how to use the last 10 minutes of game time. How many more times before conference play will we be up by 25 points with 10 minutes left. I think Ewing missed an opportunity. Yes, he added freshman to the rotation the last 10 minutes, but my count Rice took 4-5 more shots after my initial comment that he should be pulled. We went back and forth about this a bit in the game. Personally, I see where you are coming from but at the same time, the Freshman that were out there will likely be playing a lot with Rice (or Don) when it comes to competitive game situations. They should get used to moving the ball and feeding him good shots. I also agree that I would have like to see more Fr on Fr action to get them more comfortable setting each other up. Either way, congrats to Rice on hitting a mark that no Hoya has previously and I'm glad that Riley and Beard got 18/16 minutes respectively.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 9, 2021 22:41:08 GMT -5
Mutumbo looks 7-2.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 9, 2021 23:00:49 GMT -5
There is a close-up shot of Ryan and Deke standing next to each other after the game. And taking Ryan's hair into consideration (I tried my best to exclude it from his height) the two of them looked roughly the same length.
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aggypryd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by aggypryd on Dec 11, 2021 9:12:13 GMT -5
I doubt Dikembe is still measuring at 7’2”. Gravity and the years…
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