hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Nov 26, 2021 15:47:08 GMT -5
The paradox of the Ewing era is that, personalities aside, Georgetown has a 15 year NBA assistant who is still coaching like it's the NBA, not the college game. The NBA game is less a strategy game and more a means of simply outrunning your opponent. Rookies do not learn in games, but practices. You go with the veterans. Player turnover is part of the game. And so, instead of developing Dante Harris into a player that can adjust his game to opponents, he's a zero-to sixty player who is going to hit a wall against Big East defenses. Instead of getting 20 minutes out of the future (Riley, Billingsley, Holloway, maybe Beard and Clark), it's all-in with Carey and Rice. You can certainly out run-and gun a St. Joe's and a Longwood. Patient teams can and will adjust. By contrast, Georgetown is not a patient team. I agree wholeheartedly with DFW here. I think we all know that this is going to be a long and, results-wise, unsuccessful season. I am not sure why we need to watch so much Don Carey and Kaiden Rice, who will be gone next year. We got smoked again last night by a pedestrian SDSU team. We could have lost just as badly or perhaps even worse by playing the kids, but at least they would be gaining experience. Sadly, Ewing appears to be coaching this season like a man in fear of his job, which in this case just perpetuates the vicious cycle of program regression. Same post could have, and was, made last year just swapping in Pickett/Bile/Blair for Carey/Rice. And last year’s team grew, played well down the stretch, caught lightning in a bottle and gave us one of the few highlights of the last decade. And maybe “the kids” learned more by working to earn their time and play on a championship team than a few extra minutes thrown in the deep end splashing around. And, for better or worse, I don’t think Ewing has any fear of losing his job, especially after winning the BET last year. hm
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 26, 2021 16:16:57 GMT -5
Will Ewing ever field a good team here? The paradox of the Ewing era is that, personalities aside, Georgetown has a 15 year NBA assistant who is still coaching like it's the NBA, not the college game. The NBA game is less a strategy game and more a means of simply outrunning your opponent. Rookies do not learn in games, but practices. You go with the veterans. Player turnover is part of the game. And so, instead of developing Dante Harris into a player that can adjust his game to opponents, he's a zero-to sixty player who is going to hit a wall against Big East defenses. Instead of getting 20 minutes out of the future (Riley, Billingsley, Holloway, maybe Beard and Clark), it's all-in with Carey and Rice. You can certainly out run-and gun a St. Joe's and a Longwood. Patient teams can and will adjust. By contrast, Georgetown is not a patient team. I don't really think you watch the NBA at all. There's plenty of strategy, little outrunning the opponent, and teams play their rookies and young players all the time. This board always has the weirdest stereotypes about the NBA. I think Dante is developing quite a bit, and I'm not really sure what you expect him to do in game to further that. I'm all for playing the freshmen, but there will be consequences, as bad as Carey and Rice were.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Nov 26, 2021 16:17:13 GMT -5
The paradox of the Ewing era is that, personalities aside, Georgetown has a 15 year NBA assistant who is still coaching like it's the NBA, not the college game. The NBA game is less a strategy game and more a means of simply outrunning your opponent. Rookies do not learn in games, but practices. You go with the veterans. Player turnover is part of the game. And so, instead of developing Dante Harris into a player that can adjust his game to opponents, he's a zero-to sixty player who is going to hit a wall against Big East defenses. Instead of getting 20 minutes out of the future (Riley, Billingsley, Holloway, maybe Beard and Clark), it's all-in with Carey and Rice. You can certainly out run-and gun a St. Joe's and a Longwood. Patient teams can and will adjust. By contrast, Georgetown is not a patient team. I agree wholeheartedly with DFW here. I think we all know that this is going to be a long and, results-wise, unsuccessful season. I am not sure why we need to watch so much Don Carey and Kaiden Rice, who will be gone next year. We got smoked again last night by a pedestrian SDSU team. We could have lost just as badly or perhaps even worse by playing the kids, but at least they would be gaining experience. Sadly, Ewing appears to be coaching this season like a man in fear of his job, which in this case just perpetuates the vicious cycle of program regression. Just what was so “pedestrian” about SDSU? We may not know a lot about them because of conferences and time zones and the like but that’s a good college hoops team by both the eye test (strong, athletic, veteran team that plays hard-nosed aggressive defense) and by the metrics (ranked 36 on KenPom and 45 on BartTorvik). Maybe the East coast bias was kicking in a bit, but there was nothing pedestrian about that team imo. Also, not sure if you watched the game, but those of us that did would probably disagree with the assessment that we got “smoked”. We actually hung in quite well and actually dictated the game for some stretches. A young inexperienced team caught some unlucky breaks and ran out of gas in the second half. There were also some very questionable lineup decision at times, but we absolutely did not get “smoked”.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 26, 2021 16:30:51 GMT -5
You may define your 17 point losses any way you like.
This is how far this program has fallen.
We are debating what to call yet another desultory loss.
The overarching point of my earlier post is that by the time this program is any good again, Carey, Rice, et al will be long gone.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Nov 26, 2021 16:39:18 GMT -5
Would not get too down on either Carey or Rice unless expectations were completely unrealistic. Both are role players and not known for creating their own shot. Rice is streaky and Carey has stretches of disappearing. Still I think Carey is critical to a young team and needs to play substantial minutes even if Ewing has to kick his ass occasionally. What worries me more is that there is no way to compete with BE teams if the 4/5 positions contribute nothing on offense and do not rebound well or play competent defense. Weakest the Hoyas have been in these positions since Ewing arrived which is really shocking given his background and supposed ability to develop bigs. Play Ryan a lot and lets suffer through his growing pains. Choose potential over seniority.
SDSU is still a work in progress and I would certainly not assume that they are going to be good. But their coach has consistently demonstrated the ability to develop new players and integrate them into a team which plays tough defense and stays in most games. Although Ewing has shown flashes there are still too many missteps and in year 5 no objective person can really say the arrow is pointing up yet. He is no longer a rookie coach. He is challenged yet again by turnover, some inconsistent recruiting and the seeming inability to develop an identity for the team and the program. Tonight’s game is another opportunity to try and create the positive momentum that has eluded this young group so far.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 26, 2021 16:41:39 GMT -5
Would not get too down on either Carey or Rice unless expectations were completely unrealistic. Both are role players and not known for creating their own shot. Rice is streaky and Carey has stretches of disappearing. Still I think Carey is critical to a young team and needs to play substantial minutes even if Ewing has to kick his ass occasionally. What worries me more is that there is no way to compete with BE teams if the 4/5 positions contribute nothing on offense and do not rebound well or play competent defense. Weakest the Hoyas have been in these positions since Ewing arrived which is really shocking given his background and supposed ability to develop bigs. Play Ryan a lot and lets suffer through his growing pains. Choose potential over seniority. SDSU is still a work in progress and I would certainly not assume that they are going to be good. But their coach has consistently demonstrated the ability to develop new players and integrate them into a team which plays tough defense and stays in most games. Although Ewing has shown flashes there are still too many missteps and in year 5 no objective person can really say the arrow is pointing up yet. He is no longer a rookie coach. He is challenged yet again by turnover, some inconsistent recruiting and the seeming inability to develop an identity for the team and the program. Tonight’s game is another opportunity to try and create the positive momentum that has eluded this young group so far. It’s weird that people clamor for a Malinowski type 3pt shooter and were crying that the sky was falling when Blair left yet we have two Malinowski type 3pt shooters in Carey and Rice.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 26, 2021 17:24:39 GMT -5
This starts at 9pm?
Or are the times all over the place again?
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 26, 2021 17:34:31 GMT -5
This starts at 9pm? Or are the times all over the place again? I see it listed at 9 pm on ESPNU Hoyas -7.5, O/U 144.5
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Post by phniousgren on Nov 26, 2021 17:34:36 GMT -5
So far 9. Which means 6 pst. The consolation game is the first game so there should be nothing that prevents an on time start like O.T
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Post by practice on Nov 26, 2021 17:57:22 GMT -5
For those itching to play the freshmen ... sorry, there's no guarantee that they will all be on the team next year. Pat -- and most college coaches in in 2021 -- must have a "win as many games as possible" mentality. There were over 1000 transfers last year -- 3 per team -- and God knows the Hoyas have had more than their fair share of departures every year. I'd encourage everyone to think about the Hoyas as a year-to-year product. The era of the four year D1 basketball player is over. Ewing will be luck to have 30-40% of his recruits graduate from G-Town -- because of transfers more than anything else. The best laid plans will fail consistently -- see the center position where Ewing finds himself at Plan C or D -- and occasionally we should hit gold or silver with someone like Bile or even Carey. Recruiting is still important, but losing Q and King have made this team fatally flawed -- at least in the near term. I laugh at my friends who project how good we are going to be in 3 years ... I mean for you "play the kids" proponents, remember that our starters should include Seniors Akinjo, McClung, LeBlanc, Juniors Wahab, and maybe Myron Gardner. Maybe Sophomore Sibley would have stolen the position from Gardner or maybe he'd be the sixth man ... in which case, good luck to anyone not named Mohammed getting any PT! Point is -- don't blame Patrick for trying to just win.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 26, 2021 18:17:26 GMT -5
For those itching to play the freshmen ... sorry, there's no guarantee that they will all be on the team next year. Pat -- and most college coaches in in 2021 -- must have a "win as many games as possible" mentality. There were over 1000 transfers last year -- 3 per team -- and God knows the Hoyas have had more than their fair share of departures every year. I'd encourage everyone to think about the Hoyas as a year-to-year product. The era of the four year D1 basketball player is over. Ewing will be luck to have 30-40% of his recruits graduate from G-Town -- because of transfers more than anything else. The best laid plans will fail consistently -- see the center position where Ewing finds himself at Plan C or D -- and occasionally we should hit gold or silver with someone like Bile or even Carey. Recruiting is still important, but losing Q and King have made this team fatally flawed -- at least in the near term. I laugh at my friends who project how good we are going to be in 3 years ... I mean for you "play the kids" proponents, remember that our starters should include Seniors Akinjo, McClung, LeBlanc, Juniors Wahab, and maybe Myron Gardner. Maybe Sophomore Sibley would have stolen the position from Gardner or maybe he'd be the sixth man ... in which case, good luck to anyone not named Mohammed getting any PT! Point is -- don't blame Patrick for trying to just win. If the basketball office is using this approach as a justification, it's a poor excuse. As to "Ewing will be luck to have 30-40% of his recruits graduate from G-Town", that's going to come back to bite him at the upper levels of the University, because that still matters. Finally, for those who say that basketball teams can't keep four year talent: villanova.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/2021-22?&sort=class
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 26, 2021 18:31:02 GMT -5
The paradox of the Ewing era is that, personalities aside, Georgetown has a 15 year NBA assistant who is still coaching like it's the NBA, not the college game. The NBA game is less a strategy game and more a means of simply outrunning your opponent. Rookies do not learn in games, but practices. You go with the veterans. Player turnover is part of the game. And so, instead of developing Dante Harris into a player that can adjust his game to opponents, he's a zero-to sixty player who is going to hit a wall against Big East defenses. Instead of getting 20 minutes out of the future (Riley, Billingsley, Holloway, maybe Beard and Clark), it's all-in with Carey and Rice. You can certainly out run-and gun a St. Joe's and a Longwood. Patient teams can and will adjust. By contrast, Georgetown is not a patient team. I don't really think you watch the NBA at all. There's plenty of strategy, little outrunning the opponent, and teams play their rookies and young players all the time. This board always has the weirdest stereotypes about the NBA. I think Dante is developing quite a bit, and I'm not really sure what you expect him to do in game to further that. I'm all for playing the freshmen, but there will be consequences, as bad as Carey and Rice were. Unless, of course, you're talking about the Knicks.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 26, 2021 18:46:42 GMT -5
I don't really think you watch the NBA at all. There's plenty of strategy, little outrunning the opponent, and teams play their rookies and young players all the time. This board always has the weirdest stereotypes about the NBA. While I certainly don't watch as much NBA as college, I referred to "running" as the possessions per game stat, which has taken a noticeable uptick in the pros over the past 15 years. In 2003, the Dallas Mavericks led the league with 96 possessions per game. Today, that would be dead last. The Lakers are pushing 107-108 possessions a game (112 in their last game), a mark not seen since the early 1980's. www.lineups.com/articles/why-nba-game-pace-is-at-historic-high/
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 26, 2021 19:01:52 GMT -5
This starts at 9pm? Or are the times all over the place again?
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Post by jctnhoya4ever on Nov 26, 2021 19:10:20 GMT -5
I still think this team can win,San Diego state is a elite 8 team with lot of experience. I think they will beat usc tonight.that being said Hoyas will be up and down,but I think Timothy has to do more inside and Carey and rice needs be more consistent.if they can play more consistently this team will be in the hunt for ncaa bid.i think they are talented but needs experience,but believe by half thru the big east will be ready to make a run the other half of it and be around 11-9 in conference right on bubble maybe 12-8 my opinion call me crazy but they just need play consistently which takes a while when playing a lot of freshman. Go Hoyas get a win tonight.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Nov 26, 2021 19:51:17 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly with DFW here. I think we all know that this is going to be a long and, results-wise, unsuccessful season. I am not sure why we need to watch so much Don Carey and Kaiden Rice, who will be gone next year. We got smoked again last night by a pedestrian SDSU team. We could have lost just as badly or perhaps even worse by playing the kids, but at least they would be gaining experience. Sadly, Ewing appears to be coaching this season like a man in fear of his job, which in this case just perpetuates the vicious cycle of program regression. Same post could have, and was, made last year just swapping in Pickett/Bile/Blair for Carey/Rice. And last year’s team grew, played well down the stretch, caught lightning in a bottle and gave us one of the few highlights of the last decade. And maybe “the kids” learned more by working to earn their time and play on a championship team than a few extra minutes thrown in the deep end splashing around. And, for better or worse, I don’t think Ewing has any fear of losing his job, especially after winning the BET last year. hm Ewing absolutely knows he’s coaching for his job - hence all the “be patient” rhetoric coming from him and his cronies. The reality is Ewing has proven over 4+ years that he can’t coach. His days are numbered.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 26, 2021 19:59:34 GMT -5
Same post could have, and was, made last year just swapping in Pickett/Bile/Blair for Carey/Rice. And last year’s team grew, played well down the stretch, caught lightning in a bottle and gave us one of the few highlights of the last decade. And maybe “the kids” learned more by working to earn their time and play on a championship team than a few extra minutes thrown in the deep end splashing around. And, for better or worse, I don’t think Ewing has any fear of losing his job, especially after winning the BET last year. hm Ewing absolutely knows he’s coaching for his job - hence all the “be patient” rhetoric coming from him and his cronies. The reality is Ewing has proven over 4+ years that he can’t coach. His days are numbered. He probably isn’t coaching for his job this season - and it’s probably not even close to that point. I think he should be, but you really don’t know much about the program if you actually think he is. It’s more likely that you’re trolling, as usual.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Nov 26, 2021 20:02:02 GMT -5
Ewing absolutely knows he’s coaching for his job - hence all the “be patient” rhetoric coming from him and his cronies. The reality is Ewing has proven over 4+ years that he can’t coach. His days are numbered. He probably isn’t coaching for his job this season - and it’s probably not even close to that point. I think he should be, but you really don’t know much about the program if you actually think he is. It’s more likely that you’re trolling, as usual. I know a ton about the program and with JT2 no longer around, Ewing’s days are numbered, barring a miracle run this season.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 26, 2021 20:11:43 GMT -5
He probably isn’t coaching for his job this season - and it’s probably not even close to that point. I think he should be, but you really don’t know much about the program if you actually think he is. It’s more likely that you’re trolling, as usual. I know a ton about the program and with JT2 no longer around, Ewing’s days are numbered, barring a miracle run this season. No, you don’t. That much is very clear.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Nov 26, 2021 20:40:24 GMT -5
I know a ton about the program and with JT2 no longer around, Ewing’s days are numbered, barring a miracle run this season. No, you don’t. That much is very clear. We’ll see about that.
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