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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 6, 2021 17:45:49 GMT -5
He's brought in NBA level athleteticism (MacClung, Josh LeBlanc, Bile, Galen) or measurables (Pickett) or guys who have an elite skill (Akinjo, Carey, Malinowski) so not sure where you are getting that. I think your idea of NBA level athleticism or elite skill is different than mine. None of the guys you mention above are in the NBA (yet), and none of them are even close to being sure-things for the NBA. I would be shocked if McClung, Bile, or Galen Alexander see any meaningful time on an NBA roster, and while I thought LeBlanc might have potential for the NBA, it seems like he hasn't been featured very much at LSU. As far as elite skill, again, I think you are mistaken. Under the criteria used by KenPom, Carey is not even in the top 100 on three point percentage, and neither was Malinwoski in his season at Georgetown (in college he only shot 38.7% from three, that's not even elite in college). As far as Akinjo, I don't even know what elite skill he supposedly has, but he is an undersized point guard for the NBA. No doubt, he has talent, but I am not sure I would call it elite at the moment (but he's closer to that level than the other guys you mentioned). The only area I would agree is somewhat on the measurables, but I think that's the least important factor. Anybody can pluck guys out with a certain size, but measurables without at least one elite skill aren't going to get you that far. I am not blaming Ewing for this, either, as you don't need NBA-level talent, athleticism, or elite NBA skills to be a high quality college player. Unless you look at the roster of the very top teams, you're not going to find NBA-level athleticism and skill (and even then it's not always there) in college basketball. That's why most college players never play in the NBA.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 6, 2021 17:50:15 GMT -5
Beard is better than Harris but I’d like to see most of next year’s PG minutes go to a grad transfer. We don't have a spot for a grad transfer unless one of the underclassmen leaves. I think it’s a pretty safe bet that one of the underclassmen leaves.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 6, 2021 17:57:26 GMT -5
Never hurts to have three pg/combo guard (unless Akinjo is one of them) to account for injury/foul trouble. We need some really good players. A #3 point guard is "not going to get it. We need a #1 PG, not a #3 (we have one of those already).
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Mar 6, 2021 18:10:22 GMT -5
If Carey is not leaving, as he was not honored at senior night (correct me if I am wrong), then we are still one spot short of Aminu actually being a player so if Carey stays then sadly it might be even less likely that we get another grad transfer bc that would mean an underclassman already left.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 6, 2021 18:12:13 GMT -5
If Carey is not leaving, as he was not honored at senior night (correct me if I am wrong), then we are still one spot short of Aminu actually being a player so if Carey stays then sadly it might be even less likely that we get another grad transfer bc that would mean an underclassman already left. I expect multiple underclassmen not to be back.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Mar 6, 2021 19:13:57 GMT -5
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hoyadimes
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Post by hoyadimes on Mar 6, 2021 19:53:14 GMT -5
I was going to save this for the end of the season but since people are discussing who is/is not returning next year, I'll say it now. I will be a Gtown fan forever regardless of who is suiting up. That being said, I hope to see none of the major players from this year on this team next year. We already know what the current make up of this team is not capable of which is why we are complaining now. Too many deficiencies at the top of the pecking order. I'd much rather see the new youngins Sibley, Harris, Clark, etc mix with the next frosh class Aminu, Beard, Mutombo, Riley, etc....if Ewing can't make it to the tournament by the time that class is in their Junior year, then maybe it will be time to move on from him also.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 6, 2021 20:20:32 GMT -5
I was going to save this for the end of the season but since people are discussing who is/is not returning next year, I'll say it now. I will be a Gtown fan forever regardless of who is suiting up. That being said, I hope to see none of the major players from this year on this team next year. We already know what the current make up of this team is not capable of which is why we are complaining now. Too many deficiencies at the top of the pecking order. I'd much rather see the new youngins Sibley, Harris, Clark, etc mix with the next frosh class Aminu, Beard, Mutombo, Riley, etc....if Ewing can't make it to the tournament by the time that class is in their Junior year, then maybe it will be time to move on from him also. I understand the sentiment and have felt this way (for at least some of what you say) at times. Next year’s roster will have 1 senior, Jaden Robinson, as presently constructed. One of the strategies for success in CBB is ‘to get old and stay old.’ That is anything but our strategy. While I am ready for a fresh start, a player like Bile could fill what looks like a glaring hole in our line-up. The alternatives would be for Sibley, Holloway, or Billingsley to be miraculously ready or we play small with 4 guards and hope Aminu and Riley rebound like monsters. I don’t think any of our centers could play the 4 for any period of time. We may not be able to afford the luxury of a fresh start.
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hoyadimes
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Post by hoyadimes on Mar 6, 2021 20:38:22 GMT -5
Understood, which is why I would give Ewing 3 yrs from right now, which would be a chance for those kids to develop. I fear Bile would try to do waaaaaay too much on next years team considering their youth. I'd like to give those kids the time on the floor to grow into their roles and live with their mistakes.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Mar 6, 2021 20:59:15 GMT -5
Outscored them 57-48 in second half. Hey this UCONN team, with Gillespie out, is a lock for BET title and is probably a final four team. Don't let this blowout sour us on our team. We lost to a very good team. With a little luck we are capable of winning 2 BET games and maybe getting an NIT bid. An 11-13 team (even 12-13 if we made the final) is not getting a NIT bid when their field is only 16 teams this year Thanks. I keep forgetting this will be a Covid NIT. But in a normal year I think if win two BE games we get an NIT bid.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 6, 2021 21:02:35 GMT -5
Understood, which is why I would give Ewing 3 yrs from right now, which would be a chance for those kids to develop. I fear Bile would try to do waaaaaay too much on next years team considering their youth. I'd like to give those kids the time on the floor to grow into their roles and live with their mistakes. That’s my concern with Bile too- not having the discretion showed after the COVID break.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 6, 2021 21:17:51 GMT -5
An 11-13 team (even 12-13 if we made the final) is not getting a NIT bid when their field is only 16 teams this year Thanks. I keep forgetting this will be a Covid NIT. But in a normal year I think if win two BE games we get an NIT bid. You’re wrong - the NIT in a normal year is not taking a 13-14 team that finished in 9th place in the Big East. You’re delusional.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 6, 2021 21:19:22 GMT -5
Understood, which is why I would give Ewing 3 yrs from right now, which would be a chance for those kids to develop. I fear Bile would try to do waaaaaay too much on next years team considering their youth. I'd like to give those kids the time on the floor to grow into their roles and live with their mistakes. So you’d give Ewing 7 years to show progress, at $4M+/year? Do you have any job openings working for you that I could apply for?
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hoyadimes
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Post by hoyadimes on Mar 6, 2021 21:56:53 GMT -5
A first time coach who has had the unfortunate circumstances of the past 2 years(some may say some of it was self inflicted)? Yes. The man was significantly responsible for the most prosperous time this program ever had. I think that buys him a little more time than most. This program can afford to pay him....because of him. Considering the program he inherited and the current landscape of college basketball, it was never going to be an overnight change. You think Aminu is committing to Gtown if Ewing isn't the coach? Mutombo? So yes, 3 more years to field a tournament team and "build" a program.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 6, 2021 22:25:42 GMT -5
This program can afford to pay him....because of him. Where is this money coming from? Not from NCAA revenues. Not from ticket sales. This year's Hoop Club donations? And if you're willing to write off the entire Fox Sports contract to the coach, how do you justify paying the rest of the bill for a $16 million program at a university that is suffering major operating losses in COVID? The University lost $50 million in spring 2020 alone and the Georgetown Voice estimated additional 2020-21 losses of $70 million. That won't stop David Falk coming in and asking for a sizeable raise, of course, because that's what agents do. One of the reasons why John Thompson was able to make it work at Georgetown was a low annual salary (from $200-400K) spread out over many, many years so it wouldn't bankrupt the athletic department, plus he kept his Nike money separate. No coach today would agree to that kind of contract. And by the guaranteed nature of Ewing's 2017 deal, he's not interested in an "installment plan" salary, either. And that's not surprising--he's a multi-millionaire who expects to be paid like one.
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hoyadimes
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Post by hoyadimes on Mar 6, 2021 22:47:19 GMT -5
Ok, so consider me schooled on the finer financial details of Georgetown athletics. Fact is, they aren't borrowing $ to pay him. They are obviously paying for the Ewing name in hopes of reversing the money losing trend you so wonderfully laid out. You obviously have another route you'd rather see taken. But who has the name recognition that is going to pull top flight recruits and isn't going to be expected to be paid similarly to Ewing? How long did it take Shaka to turn things around at Texas, pretty sure Roy Williams makes a pretty penny and for what? Big John didn't win big til Ewing, Coach K struggled for years at Duke, Popavich was on the verge of being fired and the list goes on. Back to my initial point....it takes time to build a winner. And even after you build a winner, stability isn't guaranteed. Im just saying I'm willing to be patient with the current staff but I also want to move on from the players of the last 2 years as I dont see them being capable of taking the program where it needs to go.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 6, 2021 23:52:18 GMT -5
You don’t give a guy a raise because we were expected to finish 11th and finished 8th. That’s how far we’ve fallen. If we lose to Marquette in the opening round of the Big East Tournament, this season should be considered horrible.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 6, 2021 23:59:48 GMT -5
You don’t give a guy a raise because we were expected to finish 11th and finished 8th. That’s how far we’ve fallen. If we lose to Marquette in the opening round of the Big East Tournament, this season should be considered horrible. Not sure it could be stated better than this. We all want Ewing to succeed. That would be the best thing for all parties. It hasn’t happened.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 7, 2021 0:43:22 GMT -5
Ok, so consider me schooled on the finer financial details of Georgetown athletics. Fact is, they aren't borrowing $ to pay him. They are obviously paying for the Ewing name in hopes of reversing the money losing trend you so wonderfully laid out. You obviously have another route you'd rather see taken. But who has the name recognition that is going to pull top flight recruits and isn't going to be expected to be paid similarly to Ewing? How long did it take Shaka to turn things around at Texas, pretty sure Roy Williams makes a pretty penny and for what? Big John didn't win big til Ewing, Coach K struggled for years at Duke, Popavich was on the verge of being fired and the list goes on. Back to my initial point....it takes time to build a winner. And even after you build a winner, stability isn't guaranteed. Im just saying I'm willing to be patient with the current staff but I also want to move on from the players of the last 2 years as I dont see them being capable of taking the program where it needs to go. I don't have a "route" to take, but name recognition for coaches isn't as big a deal to recruits as you suggest. What's a bigger name, Jerry Stackhouse or Nate Oats? Recruits gravitate to schools where they can win, where they can get TV attention, and where they can make a case for NBA first round consideration. Georgetown isn't that place right now, which as much as anything led Mac McClung to leave for Texas Tech. FWIW... --John Thompson did win before Ewing, thanks to names like Jackson, Dutch, Duren and Shelton: three ECAC titles, the 1980 Big East title, and the Final 8. His record pre-Ewing was 176-84 (.676). Ewing, Martin, Jones, Dalton, and Smith were a transformative recruiting class but let's not forget what it took to get Thompson to be able to recruit at that level. --Shaka Smart was in the NCAA tournament in years 1 and 3 at Texas, and will likely be there in year 6. --Roy Williams makes a "pretty penny"...a base salary which is actually less than Ewing, though he makes more in aggregate thanks to NCAA performance bonuses. Seven Final Fours and three NCAA titles leaves no doubt he is deserving. He took UNC to the title in his second year at Chapel Hill and has missed the NCAA's twice in the last 32 years. --Mike Krzyzewski made the NCAA's in year 4 and the Final Four in year 6 at Duke. --Gregg Popovich was in the conference semifinals in year 2 and won an NBA title in year 3, unless you're referencing his days as a Division III coach at Pomona-Pitzer. Ewing is not going anywhere this year. He's a better coach than Leitao, Jordan, Steele, and probably Wojo. But I'm not a fan of those who would demand a lifetime contract or a $4-6M/year multi-year guaranteed contract because of his name, especially given the financial issues at GU right now. Or, consider this: if Craig Esherick was .500 after four seasons, would GU have renewed his contract? If JT III is .500 in 2008, what about him?
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hoyadimes
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Post by hoyadimes on Mar 7, 2021 1:17:47 GMT -5
I'm not saying those people didn't win, Im saying it took time to ascend to the level of success they are celebrated for. Im simply in the camp who hasn't run out of patience for the coach yet and would like to see what he is capable of doing with new tools to work with. My point in using the others for reference was simply to show they weren't always successful. And once again, any coach will struggle if U don't have the players. But the way this conversation is going, I'll say Phil Jackson is nothing without MJ, Kobe, Shaq, etc...and U will tell me he won a CBA title. Who was on that team? Hahaha. Im no expert at any of this, just a fan that wants the team to do well, and am of the opinion this coaching staff will be capable with better talent and a few more years.
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