DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 10, 2021 15:08:27 GMT -5
Some pretty good college coaches bash their players in public far more harshly than Ewing does.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Feb 10, 2021 15:16:40 GMT -5
This is the red flag that keeps rearing it's ugly head for me. Ewing to me truly doesn't get it. The defense last night was not fine. Yes the final defensive numbers look fine because it was a blowout and Creighton missed a ton of open looks. Not even the staunchest of Ewing defenders here would call the defense fine last night.
He seems to see the game of basketball at the most basic level. There seems to be no real thought going into system or putting the players in the best place to succeed. If the other team is small then the one play we have works. If a game requires anything other than feed the post then we just wing it an pray. On the defensive end I've still yet to figure out what exactly we do other than watch and chase the ball.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 16:03:34 GMT -5
Of course the coach and his staff bear responsibility for how their team plays. Some coaches come out and 'fall on their swords' others don't. I don't mark them up or down for either. I also have no problem with a coach saying his team didn't play as well as they should have and why. There are plenty of top flight winning college coaches who are far more direct in criticism of their players than Ewing has been. If we are calling for Ewing to say "it's all my fault" when he and the staff have a specific game plan and the players don't execute it, I don't expect him to say "don't look at them it's all my fault." That's absurd. I definitely agree with you on the point of "it being Ewing's fault". I certainly don't knock the coaches because they have a game plan and it is the players' job to execute that game plan. When you have players who are fumbling and bumbling, how are you going to blame the coaches???
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DallasHoya
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Post by DallasHoya on Feb 10, 2021 16:31:26 GMT -5
This is the red flag that keeps rearing it's ugly head for me. Ewing to me truly doesn't get it. The defense last night was not fine. Yes the final defensive numbers look fine because it was a blowout and Creighton missed a ton of open looks. Not even the staunchest of Ewing defenders here would call the defense fine last night. He seems to see the game of basketball at the most basic level. There seems to be no real thought going into system or putting the players in the best place to succeed. If the other team is small then the one play we have works. If a game requires anything other than feed the post then we just wing it an pray. On the defensive end I've still yet to figure out what exactly we do other than watch and chase the ball. Exactly my reaction to that quote about the defense. Just re-watch the first two minutes to see how bad the defense was. That's why Ewing called the first timeout.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Feb 10, 2021 16:52:57 GMT -5
This is the red flag that keeps rearing it's ugly head for me. Ewing to me truly doesn't get it. The defense last night was not fine. Yes the final defensive numbers look fine because it was a blowout and Creighton missed a ton of open looks. Not even the staunchest of Ewing defenders here would call the defense fine last night. He seems to see the game of basketball at the most basic level. There seems to be no real thought going into system or putting the players in the best place to succeed. If the other team is small then the one play we have works. If a game requires anything other than feed the post then we just wing it an pray. On the defensive end I've still yet to figure out what exactly we do other than watch and chase the ball. Exactly my reaction to that quote about the defense. Just re-watch the first two minutes to see how bad the defense was. That's why Ewing called the first timeout. Marcus Washington on Kente Korner summed it up pretty good: Creighton essentially put Wahab in a PnR because they knew he'd either overhelp and be slow to recover, or if he went to drop coverage, he could still be exploited at the rim due a speed disadvantage vs. Bishop or biting on shot fakes. If you go back to those first two minutes (or really, at any point throughout the night when Q was in the game), Creighton would exploit this. Good teams with good coaches do this; they spot a fatal flaw and they continue to attack it until you prove you can stop the bleeding. And we never adjusted. In fact, Ewing actually even doubled down and left Q in for long stretches during the last 7-8 minutes of the 1st half when he had two fouls and clearly didn't want to pick up a third.
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Post by gotin2gu4lunch on Feb 10, 2021 18:19:32 GMT -5
I don't understand how you can claim the defense was fine. When you're constantly giving up layups, from the 3-point line! There is no sane person that would say our defense is fine! We don't get down in a defensive stance and guard our man! There's not one time I can remember us getting a defensive stop, because we moved our feet and hounded the ball. The pick and roll defense was terrible, with the on ball defender opening up and exposing the lane. Only for our help-side to NEVER rotate. I can't for the life of me figure out how a Jeff Van Gundy coached player, can't correct these simple mistakes. And its mainly the upperclassmen that are the culprits! Bile, plays out of control and becomes a bit of a black hole! Pickett does not rotate on defense, and doesn't seem to get a firm hold on the ball! And Blair does not seem interested in man to man defense. It looks like our idea of man defense is to stay with our man 2 passes away from the ball. Causing the lane to be wide open and exposing our weak man defense. Which is the reason for all the dribble drives from the 3-point line. We need to play more zone,IMO. At least the guys will see the ball more and play better help defense! Just had to get that off my Chest! And now I'll go away for a while!#HOYASAXA
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Post by hsaxon on Feb 10, 2021 18:40:56 GMT -5
Exactly my reaction to that quote about the defense. Just re-watch the first two minutes to see how bad the defense was. That's why Ewing called the first timeout. Marcus Washington on Kente Korner summed it up pretty good: Creighton essentially put Wahab in a PnR because they knew he'd either overhelp and be slow to recover, or if he went to drop coverage, he could still be exploited at the rim due a speed disadvantage vs. Bishop or biting on shot fakes. If you go back to those first two minutes (or really, at any point throughout the night when Q was in the game), Creighton would exploit this. Good teams with good coaches do this; they spot a fatal flaw and they continue to attack it until you prove you can stop the bleeding. And we never adjusted. In fact, Ewing actually even doubled down and left Q in for long stretches during the last 7-8 minutes of the 1st half when he had two fouls and clearly didn't want to pick up a third. He left Qudus in in the late first half because Timothy was ineffective. He had no real option.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Feb 10, 2021 19:48:32 GMT -5
Marcus Washington on Kente Korner summed it up pretty good: Creighton essentially put Wahab in a PnR because they knew he'd either overhelp and be slow to recover, or if he went to drop coverage, he could still be exploited at the rim due a speed disadvantage vs. Bishop or biting on shot fakes. If you go back to those first two minutes (or really, at any point throughout the night when Q was in the game), Creighton would exploit this. Good teams with good coaches do this; they spot a fatal flaw and they continue to attack it until you prove you can stop the bleeding. And we never adjusted. In fact, Ewing actually even doubled down and left Q in for long stretches during the last 7-8 minutes of the 1st half when he had two fouls and clearly didn't want to pick up a third. He left Qudus in in the late first half because Timothy was ineffective. He had no real option. Timmy was ineffective, but Wilson gave good minutes. Additionally, he could've gone small and not used any of the bigs. The way we looked in the first half, he could've tried anything different and it would have been a welcomed change.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Feb 10, 2021 20:17:02 GMT -5
Happily, we don't get CBS Sports Network on our cable, so I wasn't subjected to yesterday's travesty. I guess I could have watched the game on the computer, but opted not to. I just wonder whether our game plan was for 2/3 of our shots to be 3's. If that's the case, you had better make a few. I can't address whether our defense was good or bad, but know damn well that the other team shooting poorly doesn't necessarily mean your team is playing good defense.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Feb 10, 2021 20:43:12 GMT -5
You know I’m not a fan of Pat the coach, but one thing he does really well is evaluate talent. Based on what? The argument here is that (a) he is a great judge of talent but (b) three out of the five players he recruited last year are not worth developing. Those statements seem at odds with each other. Not at all. Did you even read the bottom of the post. I’m sure Pat took a few guys this year he wouldn’t ordinarily even consider because a huge chunk of the underclassmen on last year's squad bailed. If you look at all of his other classes (including I think next year’s), he doesn’t put a lot of ballast on the roster. This year was the exception, not the rule.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Feb 11, 2021 7:33:37 GMT -5
Marcus Washington on Kente Korner summed it up pretty good: Creighton essentially put Wahab in a PnR because they knew he'd either overhelp and be slow to recover, or if he went to drop coverage, he could still be exploited at the rim due a speed disadvantage vs. Bishop or biting on shot fakes. If you go back to those first two minutes (or really, at any point throughout the night when Q was in the game), Creighton would exploit this. Good teams with good coaches do this; they spot a fatal flaw and they continue to attack it until you prove you can stop the bleeding. And we never adjusted. In fact, Ewing actually even doubled down and left Q in for long stretches during the last 7-8 minutes of the 1st half when he had two fouls and clearly didn't want to pick up a third. Agree. I know we're calling it a drop coverage, I've done the same, but it's not truly "drop" we're seeing in the NBA. If it were, Q's responsibility would be to continue to drop and stay level with the roller. That would invite the ball handler to get closer to the hoop but you're betting that either your guard recovers or Wahab can stop the lob or bait the ball handler into a mid range floater. We're doing a hybrid where it's not a hard hedge like last year, but definitely not a full drop. Creighton realized you could just dribble it right at Q because he isn't quick enough to stay in front, even with a head start of knowing the ballhandler is coming at him. And this coverage is still forcing the rotation issues you're hoping you eliminate with drop. I did find it hilarious that Lappus called out Blair for not rotating on the pnr in the beginning of the 2nd half. He was guarding Ballock, he'd get ripped just the same if he helped off him and gave up a 3 to one of the best shooters in the country. We're still forcing the weakside defender to be in 2 places at once (the rim and 3 point line), and the whole point of drop coverage is to eliminate the need for the weakside defender to help. There's just a lack of cohesion. This was a harmless play but sums it up for me. Early in the 2nd half, Bile is guarding Jefferson on the left side towards top of key. Bile decides he's going to force Jefferson left. If that's the plan, when the ball screen is set to help Jefferson go right, the big has to stay home to help and you're essentially icing the screen. Instead the big follows up, Bile gets beat off the dribble and has to grab Jefferson to avoid a layup because the big has vacated and there's no help. I have no idea who's at fault there, was the plan to ice and the big missed it? Is Bile just arbitrarily deciding where to force ballhandler? That's why evaluating individual defense is tough, something went wrong but it's impossible for us to know where. Modern schemes take something off the table, concede something else but everyone knows what you're conceding so you're prepared to recover quickly when it happens. To me that sums up the "no middle" defense and the pack line pretty well. We're just stuck in the middle.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 11, 2021 9:23:25 GMT -5
He left Qudus in in the late first half because Timothy was ineffective. He had no real option. Timmy was ineffective, but Wilson gave good minutes. Additionally, he could've gone small and not used any of the bigs. The way we looked in the first half, he could've tried anything different and it would have been a welcomed change. I thought Wilson was pretty good in the minutes he got against Creighton. He has improved to the point where his defense and rebounding are a positive for the Hoyas now. The issue is that he is pretty much a non factor on offense right now. Short of setting some screens and possibly getting an offensive rebound, Malcolm is not giving you anything on the offensive end and having a player out there that the other team knows it does not need to pay attention to, makes it hard for the other four guys. I hope he can find a way to improve and make himself a viable offensive player, (maybe just rolling to the rim for alley oops) because he does bring something on defense that the team does not have, a mobile shot blocking defender who can defend players on the perimeter on switches.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 11, 2021 13:08:28 GMT -5
Ewing was right and wrong. Yes we shot a bunch of threes; however in today's game, and in the Big East, we will need to shoot a lot of threes. The problem the other day was that they were not falling. Had we made 50% more of those shots we would have had a game.
Having said that, the game was deflating for me. I was really looking for another win against Creighton, especially after losing to Villanova. We have just got to keep playing and getting better, I guess.
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kbones17
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Post by kbones17 on Feb 11, 2021 13:52:36 GMT -5
This is the red flag that keeps rearing it's ugly head for me. Ewing to me truly doesn't get it. The defense last night was not fine. Yes the final defensive numbers look fine because it was a blowout and Creighton missed a ton of open looks. Not even the staunchest of Ewing defenders here would call the defense fine last night. He seems to see the game of basketball at the most basic level. There seems to be no real thought going into system or putting the players in the best place to succeed. If the other team is small then the one play we have works. If a game requires anything other than feed the post then we just wing it an pray. On the defensive end I've still yet to figure out what exactly we do other than watch and chase the ball. Exactly my reaction to that quote about the defense. Just re-watch the first two minutes to see how bad the defense was. That's why Ewing called the first timeout. Agreed the defense was bad. If PE doesn’t realize that Creighton just missed some open shots then that is a larger problem.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 11, 2021 14:44:32 GMT -5
Ewing was right and wrong. Yes we shot a bunch of threes; however in today's game, and in the Big East, we will need to shoot a lot of threes. The problem the other day was that they were not falling. Had we made 50% more of those shots we would have had a game. Having said that, the game was deflating for me. I was really looking for another win against Creighton, especially after losing to Villanova. We have just got to keep playing and getting better, I guess. I think the biggest issue with all the 3's was not how many they took, but that they took them so quickly in each possession. In a lot of cases it was one pass and shoot a 3, which does not make the defense work at all. If you can get a quick open 3 in transition, then that is one thing, but too many of the ones against Creighton did not come in transition. they came with Dante dribbling up against a set defense and making one pass and someone taking a 3. If the threes came after the ball was in the post and passed out to an open shooter, or from moving the ball from side to side and causing the defense to react and rotate, then I think the coach might have felt better about those shots. For most of this season the Hoyas have been committed and patient in running their sets and they typically come up with a decent shot (if they don't have a sloppy turnover!!!) Against Creighton the Hoyas had a height advantage in the post, and granted Creighton did a good job of doubling Q, or anyone else in the post, but when the defense doubles one option it should leave someone else open. They never seemed to get to that open option. In a lot of cases I might blame Q, because he does not do a good job of passing out of the post yet , but in this game the ball never went into the post. Since Ewing has taken over he has always said he is Ok with guys taking 3's, if they are good shots, so I don't think the issue was so much the number of 3's as it was how and when they took them.
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hoya59er
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Post by hoya59er on Feb 11, 2021 15:31:11 GMT -5
Our defense was awful. How could coach say it was fine. Creighton repeatedly drove to the hoop uncontested.
Offense. We made 16 out of 57 or shots. How bad is that!
18 turnovers!
And this is with seasoned players, Harris being the only frosh.
Our coach and team captains better get their act together or we'll end the season just as horribly as we have the past number.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 12, 2021 7:56:55 GMT -5
Ewing was right and wrong. Yes we shot a bunch of threes; however in today's game, and in the Big East, we will need to shoot a lot of threes. The problem the other day was that they were not falling. Had we made 50% more of those shots we would have had a game. Having said that, the game was deflating for me. I was really looking for another win against Creighton, especially after losing to Villanova. We have just got to keep playing and getting better, I guess. I think the biggest issue with all the 3's was not how many they took, but that they took them so quickly in each possession. In a lot of cases it was one pass and shoot a 3, which does not make the defense work at all. If you can get a quick open 3 in transition, then that is one thing, but too many of the ones against Creighton did not come in transition. they came with Dante dribbling up against a set defense and making one pass and someone taking a 3. If the threes came after the ball was in the post and passed out to an open shooter, or from moving the ball from side to side and causing the defense to react and rotate, then I think the coach might have felt better about those shots. For most of this season the Hoyas have been committed and patient in running their sets and they typically come up with a decent shot (if they don't have a sloppy turnover!!!) Against Creighton the Hoyas had a height advantage in the post, and granted Creighton did a good job of doubling Q, or anyone else in the post, but when the defense doubles one option it should leave someone else open. They never seemed to get to that open option. In a lot of cases I might blame Q, because he does not do a good job of passing out of the post yet , but in this game the ball never went into the post. Since Ewing has taken over he has always said he is Ok with guys taking 3's, if they are good shots, so I don't think the issue was so much the number of 3's as it was how and when they took them. Yes, but, if you notice, both Villanova and Creighton fight for the great three point shot. They move the ball patiently, then at a dizzying speed to get the shooter as open as possible, then they pop the jump shot. If the shooter has a chance to plant his feet before going up for the jump shot, the better chance of that shot going in. What I have noticed with our guys is that too often they are doing the exact opposite, they are not moving the ball to get open and create space. We are not exercising that sorely needed patience. This results in a lot of off balance shots, shots where their bodies are suspended, but not under control.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 12, 2021 8:47:21 GMT -5
I think the biggest issue with all the 3's was not how many they took, but that they took them so quickly in each possession. In a lot of cases it was one pass and shoot a 3, which does not make the defense work at all. If you can get a quick open 3 in transition, then that is one thing, but too many of the ones against Creighton did not come in transition. they came with Dante dribbling up against a set defense and making one pass and someone taking a 3. If the threes came after the ball was in the post and passed out to an open shooter, or from moving the ball from side to side and causing the defense to react and rotate, then I think the coach might have felt better about those shots. For most of this season the Hoyas have been committed and patient in running their sets and they typically come up with a decent shot (if they don't have a sloppy turnover!!!) Against Creighton the Hoyas had a height advantage in the post, and granted Creighton did a good job of doubling Q, or anyone else in the post, but when the defense doubles one option it should leave someone else open. They never seemed to get to that open option. In a lot of cases I might blame Q, because he does not do a good job of passing out of the post yet , but in this game the ball never went into the post. Since Ewing has taken over he has always said he is Ok with guys taking 3's, if they are good shots, so I don't think the issue was so much the number of 3's as it was how and when they took them. Yes, but, if you notice, both Villanova and Creighton fight for the great three point shot. They move the ball patiently, then at a dizzying speed to get the shooter as open as possible, then they pop the jump shot. If the shooter has a chance to plant his feet before going up for the jump shot, the better chance of that shot going in. What I have noticed with our guys is that too often they are doing the exact opposite, they are not moving the ball to get open and create space. We are not exercising that sorely needed patience. This results in a lot of off balance shots, shots where their bodies are suspended, but not under control. I've noticed that the latest bad shot selection for Blair is off an in-bounds pass from the baseline where he comes form the top to the in-bounder's corner, gets the ball and shoots. He has missed almost all of them because his momentum keeps moving him towards the baseline while shooting. Blair still has not realized that he's a set-feet shooter. His numbers tell the story.
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 12, 2021 10:17:11 GMT -5
Yes, but, if you notice, both Villanova and Creighton fight for the great three point shot. They move the ball patiently, then at a dizzying speed to get the shooter as open as possible, then they pop the jump shot. If the shooter has a chance to plant his feet before going up for the jump shot, the better chance of that shot going in. What I have noticed with our guys is that too often they are doing the exact opposite, they are not moving the ball to get open and create space. We are not exercising that sorely needed patience. This results in a lot of off balance shots, shots where their bodies are suspended, but not under control. I've noticed that the latest bad shot selection for Blair is off an in-bounds pass from the baseline where he comes form the top to the in-bounder's corner, gets the ball and shoots. He has missed almost all of them because his momentum keeps moving him towards the baseline while shooting. Blair still has not realized that he's a set-feet shooter. His numbers tell the story. Anyone shoots the ball better with set feet. Blair takes a TON of not square and moving 3s and actually makes more then he should. There are some times where his feet are totally pointed the wrong direction and he just drills the 3, always surprises me.
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