rhw485
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by rhw485 on Feb 10, 2021 8:29:28 GMT -5
To be fair It did feel like we were playing at Creighton with Creighton refs last night. But Wahab learning to pass is the next stage in his development that I hope to see next year Serious question: If Ewing says in his post-game that the centers need to pass out to the open shooter and the player does not do it, what is the solution? Who’s at fault? How does a coach get a player to do what the coach wants? I cannot believe that Q is almost at the end of his sophomore season and he still doesn’t pass it out. Ditto Tim. I'm not going to defend Q or Tim's passing ability.. but I will say I'd like to see some more off-ball movement when the double happens. Nobody cuts to the rim to collapse the help-side defender. Everyone is just standing around and you're asking Q to make the furthest pass across court every time. He actually made a really good pass that led to a hockey assist for a Dante 3. He needs to improve, scheme needs to improve as well.
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by dchoya72 on Feb 10, 2021 8:32:39 GMT -5
Shouldn’t you guys be happy. You got what you wanted. Berger, Sibley, Holloway, Clark. All season you’ve been crying for them to get minutes. Garbage 4 minutes when around 20 pts down with few minutes remaining is not the best way to build their confidence. I will not be surprised if we lose two of them. What about Robinson? We know he played minutes last year to help the short rotation and he didn’t look out of place. If all the guards are having a bad game and Pat doesn’t trust the freshmen, why not try a player who already has proven he will not screw it up (if that’s the bar now)? I agree with this. A couple of the walk-ons stepped up and played last year. Hopefully the team is not a caste system where such a player can never rise above their entry station in life. Robinson is now experienced and maybe dejected.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 10, 2021 8:33:28 GMT -5
Game summary: Woof - I guess this really boils down to whether you subscribe to a tired leg theory. Yes Creighton played the same 3 games in 6 days, but their rotation is much deeper to begin with. And they were clearly desperate to avenge last week. It was obvious from the first three possessions the guys didn't have it.
- I've seen games with a lot of turnovers...I'm not sure I've seen a game with so many live-ball steals being the turnovers. Passes with zero chance of completion, not being strong with the ball, failure to account for double teams. Creighton had 19 steals! Really just a mess across the board
- McDermott did a lot of smart stuff. Blitz Blair ball screens, even switch Blair off-ball screens so he didn't find any air. Double our bad/unwilling passers in the post in Q and Bile. Dare Dante to beat you from perimeter (the 3s Dante took were mostly good shots, have to make them). Smart adjustments and there just wasn't the patience to counter any of it. We jacked up a 3 at the first opportunity we could see the rim. Devolved into an open gym run at Yates
- I'm not sure I want to re-watch the game because my eyes will start bleeding, but McDermott also threw out a fun matchup zone at times. It looked like when they knew we'd ball screen, Bishop would stay in the paint because you knew that's where Q was rolling. They'd have two guards at the top to handle either way Blair took the screen and then the other guard would recover to closest perimeter shooter, a much shorter distance than asking a big to get back to the paint.
- I mentioned pre-game would Bishop see what Samuels did and attack Q off dribble? Well a broken clock is right twice a day I guess bc man he went at him. No fear, and no resistance from Q. Really rough game
- I was hesitant to get excited about Bile bc some of it felt unsustainable, and then I finally thought we settled into something sustainable during the Nova game. Whoops. Just a complete regression, 5 turnovers in first half alone. And really poor D. Jefferson roasted him driving to the hoop a few times and he got beat on a backdoor as well. He's similar to Pickett in that he shouldn't be driving from 3 pt line or isolating from perimeter. Pickett more effective when he shoots 3s, Bile more effective when he stays near paint
- I'm a Berger fan, I know it was garbage time but I'm convinced there's something there on the offensive end. The defense needs work, but would've liked to see if he could've provided a spark earlier before game was out of hand
- We didn't attempt a FT before the game was basically over. Have to find a way to get easy points when you're struggling, not just continue to settle for more 3s.
- Playing Pickett 39 mins and Blair 35 min in a game that was basically over at the 15 min mark is questionable at best
Burn the film, bury a basketball in the woods or something, and be ready for Saturday
Well this was a must win for Creighton because if we had won again it would’ve murdered Creightons net rankings even more. So he pulled out all the stops and studied the Hoyas like no coach has this season.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,397
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 10, 2021 8:33:40 GMT -5
Serious question: If Ewing says in his post-game that the centers need to pass out to the open shooter and the player does not do it, what is the solution? Who’s at fault? How does a coach get a player to do what the coach wants? I cannot believe that Q is almost at the end of his sophomore season and he still doesn’t pass it out. Ditto Tim. I'm not going to defend Q or Tim's passing ability.. but I will say I'd like to see some more off-ball movement when the double happens. Nobody cuts to the rim to collapse the help-side defender. Everyone is just standing around and you're asking Q to make the furthest pass across court every time. He actually made a really good pass that led to a hockey assist for a Dante 3. He needs to improve, scheme needs to improve as well. MOVE! At what point does it become a self-fulfilling prophecy - Q never passes out of the double team, therefore why should I MOVE!? And Q should almost never dribble in the lane.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 10, 2021 8:39:11 GMT -5
I'm not going to defend Q or Tim's passing ability.. but I will say I'd like to see some more off-ball movement when the double happens. Nobody cuts to the rim to collapse the help-side defender. Everyone is just standing around and you're asking Q to make the furthest pass across court every time. He actually made a really good pass that led to a hockey assist for a Dante 3. He needs to improve, scheme needs to improve as well. MOVE! At what point does it become a self-fulfilling prophecy - Q never passes out of the double team, therefore why should I MOVE!? And Q should almost never dribble in the lane. PASS!
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Feb 10, 2021 8:40:41 GMT -5
To be fair It did feel like we were playing at Creighton with Creighton refs last night. But Wahab learning to pass is the next stage in his development that I hope to see next year Serious question: If Ewing says in his post-game that the centers need to pass out to the open shooter and the player does not do it, what is the solution? Who’s at fault? How does a coach get a player to do what the coach wants? This is exactly what drives me up the wall. Ewing says the post players won't pass out to the open shooter. Ewing says that the players were selfish tonight. Ewing says the players were not ready to play. But Ewing is not one of us helplessly screaming at our monitors wanting Wahab to make a pass, stop putting the ball on the floor where he turns into a 6'6" post instead of 6'11", begging the coach to pull an out of control and selfish Bile out of the game, wondering how to get Blair not to try and force shots when he's not open, wondering how to get Carey into a game as a spot up shooter instead of ballhandler, trying to keep Harris calmed down when he starts forcing passes and trying to figure out how to get Wahab/Tim to play even passable defense. Ewing is the coach. These are all part of the job description. I give him lots of credit for the past few games and the apparent February improvement I expected, but at some point the progress has to be maintained and it is his job to provide answers. Random thoughts after a horrible game: The posts are all still very much projects and Wahab is nowhere near the complete player he needs to be to justify the hype. Really hope that Mutombo is ready to contribute next year. Really liked Pickett's game last night and his effort. Should be there all the time. Blair needs to consider who he is and what he can do and go back to playing within himself on offense. His defense is never going to be a strong point. He can just as easily shoot us out of a game as back into one. Bile is a high energy and undisciplined player who simply has to be better managed by the coach. One careless, out of control play should get him a seat and let him calm down, instead of watching him blow up the offense with TOs and selfish play. Love everything about Harris effort on both ends of the court, but also not a good percentage shooter and this team has been lacking quality shooters for some time. How do they get Carey into the offense without ball movement? In fact why does the ball movement on offense come and go as if it is not within the control of these kids. Make the extra pass. I am a college basketball addict and increasingly cannot get my fix by watching the Hoyas. Kept flipping over to see St. Johns/Butler last night.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 10, 2021 8:43:03 GMT -5
MOVE! At what point does it become a self-fulfilling prophecy - Q never passes out of the double team, therefore why should I MOVE!? And Q should almost never dribble in the lane. PASS! I guess Ewing's assumption must that if the players move, the pass will come? Well, it's only half of the solution. PASS!
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 10, 2021 8:47:30 GMT -5
I guess Ewing's assumption must that if the players move, the pass will come? Well, it's only half of the solution. PASS! I do see saying PASS! As problematic though as that will tip off the opponent turning around and looking for the pass as opposed to REBOUND or MOVE.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 10, 2021 8:55:17 GMT -5
I guess Ewing's assumption must that if the players move, the pass will come? Well, it's only half of the solution. PASS! I do see saying PASS! As problematic though as that will tip off the opponent turning around and looking for the pass as opposed to REBOUND or MOVE. DRIBBLE! (er no). OTOH, if yelling PASS causes the man doubling Q to hesitate, does it free him up to DRIBBLE!
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 10, 2021 9:08:34 GMT -5
I do see saying PASS! As problematic though as that will tip off the opponent turning around and looking for the pass as opposed to REBOUND or MOVE. DRIBBLE! (er no). OTOH, if yelling PASS causes the man doubling Q to hesitate, does it free him up to DRIBBLE! This may be a good point. Normally if Tom Brady said Pass 87! It would tip off the defenders to cover Gronoowksi. But since Q never passes it would free him up to dribble as everyone instinctively turns their head looking for the pass.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Feb 10, 2021 9:19:08 GMT -5
I apologize for my venom toward other posters last night. That game literally drove me to drink. Maybe the worst display of basketball I’ve witnessed from a GU team in my lifetime - I’ve seen pretty much every game dating back to 1987, so that’s a considerable feat.
Pat blaming the players is comical. We aren’t very talented, so he doesn’t have the best raw materials. But Pat has now demonstrably proven that he is an abysmal leader on top of being an atrocious game coach and player developer.
So exactly what does he do again?
At what point is Pat accountable for this hot mess masquerading as basketball?
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 10, 2021 9:25:13 GMT -5
Really disappointing effort last night. They looked really slowed and unfocused last night, with the possible exception of Pickett, who I thought played pretty well. This years team is not talented enough to be competitive in Big East games if they don't play with effort/intensity and great focus and attention to the game plan. Some more talented teams can get away with a sluggish half and then turn it on and make comebacks, but this is not a team that can play that way. You could see, and hear, how frustrated Coach Ewing was last night. Some may place blame on him and say it his job to get the team ready to play, but it certainly looked like he had them going in the right direction and playing with the needed intensity in the last few games so last night was a real head scratcher. Maybe they were just tired, and if that is the case then I guess the staff will need to expand it's rotations and play more guys.
Bile had showed some real improvement in the last few games, but he was really bad last night. Unfortunately that is what you are going to get from him sometimes. He does play very aggressively, on the edge of out of control, and when he has a game like last night you just have to sit him down and play someone else. He was a turnover machine last night. Dante was not much better last night. He had showed some real growth and seemed to be finding his role on the team but he was forcing passes last night and looked like the freshman he is. He had a lot of open 3's last night, and I have to guess that was part of the Creighton game plan to force him to make shots and last night he missed more than a few wide open 3's. They were not bad shots and I want him to take them, but until he starts making them that will be a game plan for other teams to leave him alone and focus on making it harder for Blair. Q looked slow last night, both on offense and defense, very lethargic. It was very disappointing effort for pretty much the entire team after a few strong games.
This was one of those games that you just hope was an anomaly and after a day or so of rest they can come back refreshed and more focused.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Feb 10, 2021 9:31:14 GMT -5
I apologize for my venom toward other posters last night. That game literally drove me to drink. Maybe the worst display of basketball I’ve witnessed from a GU team in my lifetime - I’ve seen pretty much every game dating back to 1987, so that’s a considerable feat. Pat blaming the players is comical. We aren’t very talented, so he doesn’t have the best raw materials. But Pat has now demonstrably proven that he is an abysmal leader on top of being an atrocious game coach and player developer. So exactly what does he do again? At what point is Pat accountable for this hot mess masquerading as basketball? The only explanation at this point now is that the university has some sort of Brewster’s Millions type scheme where they have to spend $12M with nothing to show for it.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Feb 10, 2021 9:45:00 GMT -5
Actually, it was our best defensive game of the season (77.2 AdjDefEff). 17 turnovers and really doing a decent job on perimeter shooters will get that done. However, unsurprisingly it was our worst offensive game of the season by far (71.5 AdjOffEff). Second worst was back in the opener vs. UMBC (90.2). Creighton missed a ton of open shots. We had nothing to do with that. Agree they missed a few open ones like we did (especially Mahoney), but we still did a much better job of closeouts and contests on the perimeter as a whole compared to earlier in the year. Creighton is too good of an offensive team to not get any open looks from deep. Unfortunately, we refused to test Bishop from the outside; for a guy who's shot 4 3's all season, Q coming out to the foul line and even beyond every possession to pressure and dare him to drive made zero sense.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Feb 10, 2021 9:46:46 GMT -5
I criticize Big East refs all the time. Refs had zero impact on the outcome of last night’s game. I agree with this, although if I'm Ewing I'm getting run out of McD after that Blair offensive foul to prove a point for future league games. Can't miss one that badly.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 10, 2021 9:53:41 GMT -5
I criticize Big East refs all the time. Refs had zero impact on the outcome of last night’s game. I agree with this, although if I'm Ewing I'm getting run out of McD after that Blair offensive foul to prove a point for future league games. Can't miss one that badly. Co-sign.
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by saxagael on Feb 10, 2021 10:12:32 GMT -5
To be fair It did feel like we were playing at Creighton with Creighton refs last night. But Wahab learning to pass is the next stage in his development that I hope to see next year All night I was thinking, "how do we have away game refs at home?" Wahab was getting pummeled when going up double teamed and no whistle. Dante was fouled hard a few times trying to get to the basket and getting the foul, but no whistle. But, early in the game the refs weren't calling it much either way, other than the early one on Wahab with wasn't much of a foul compared to the whacking he was taking.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 10, 2021 10:28:01 GMT -5
I criticize Big East refs all the time. Refs had zero impact on the outcome of last night’s game. I agree with this, although if I'm Ewing I'm getting run out of McD after that Blair offensive foul to prove a point for future league games. Can't miss one that badly. I won't disagree that the offensive on Blair was a questionable call and a call that is not often made in a Big East game. He did hook him a little and extended his arm to ward him off, but far from an obvious foul. I will also give you the perspective of a basketball referee if Ewing decided to go off about that call, at that point of the game, in a game that his team was getting blown out. Most officials know they are going to have coaches advocating and arguing for calls for their team all game and for the most part referees try to block it out and just call the game. If Ewing goes crazy about that call, at that point, the officials all look at him and think "your screaming at us about that call? Don't blame us because your team is playing awful". Ewing would lose some creditability with officials in that case. In a close game where a call like that might have an impact on who wins the game, the officials almost expect a reaction and are more tolerant because of the intense nature of the situation. My point is that coaches need to pick their spots to go off on referees, if you want it to have any real impact in that game or other conference games.
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Post by bornhoya on Feb 10, 2021 10:33:16 GMT -5
I apologize for my venom toward other posters last night. That game literally drove me to drink. Maybe the worst display of basketball I’ve witnessed from a GU team in my lifetime - I’ve seen pretty much every game dating back to 1987, so that’s a considerable feat. Pat blaming the players is comical. We aren’t very talented, so he doesn’t have the best raw materials. But Pat has now demonstrably proven that he is an abysmal leader on top of being an atrocious game coach and player developer. So exactly what does he do again? At what point is Pat accountable for this hot mess masquerading as basketball? I’m putting this on him. He went in there with the same game plan as the other day and their to good of a team to think that was going to work twice. Had to show them something new
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 10, 2021 10:33:50 GMT -5
That game was hot garbage. One other point, in limited minutes I don't see how Holloway ever sees the floor. He is a undersized wing who seems like a better fit at the 4 but his athleticism will cap any ability to contribute at that spot. I would like any minutes going to Clark or Sibley as at least they have the athleticism to grow into spots. I would also have liked to see us go small last night since we clearly weren't getting anything from our bigs. The Sibley, Pickett, Bile front line is fine in terms of size.
And another thing, Bile returned to my dog house after a two game reprieve. The guy just lacks any awareness of what he is good at and what he clearly is not.
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